Well all my friends...........over the years many here at the synthzone have read my first impressions of new products. I was very vocal with my disappointed that Ketron USA had not been able to ship me an Audya in the first batch here in the USA.
First, let me say that Ted at CMC wanted to have AJ fly out to do a clinic in my store a few months ago. I declined the invitation because there was still not a product available to leave in my store for potential customers to demo. It's always been my feeling that a product shouldn't be shown until it is ready for distribution.

Hoping I would receive one in the initial shipment didn't pan out. Once I told Ted at CMC how disappointed I was, Ted worked hard to get Italy to send a few more Audyas to the USA. Today, my first one arrived.

Over the past month or so I've been reading all the posts here with pros and cons of the Audya. It's been really good of Frank of Audioworks to post many examples of the Auyda styles and sounds on the web and I wasn't sure what I would think of this new board when it would finally arrive.

So, here I am, not the first to discuss the Audya, but after just a few hours with it I feel like I can give you a pretty good report.

Looking at the box, I was surprised there could be a 76 note keyboard inside. It is just a little longer than most of the 61 note models I have. This will be great for people in need of car space to carry the Audya.

The display looks really good and bright and I noticed the keyboad came with version 1.12 operating system. I plugged it into my computer and in 10 minutes I had version 2.0 installed. It was really easy.

First thing I did when turned on was to listen to the voices. I recognized many of the very good Ketron sounds and really enjoyed the new ones. I was also very impressed with the rotary speaker on, off, slow and fast. In other models including the SD1 I have never liked the way I could hear a clicking sound when turning on and off. This model is very smooth. As expected, the Violin, Cello, Strings, Brass, Saxes, are all up to what I would expect from Ketron.

I played with dozens of new styles using the live guitars, basses and drums and I am impressed. I did notice some endings on certain styles felt a bit rough when entering the endings.

I really liked the way I could play any style and change the last style track to either be a midi sound or any of the live audio guitar riffs I like. I can also do this with the bass track as well. There is also an arppegio function available in the 4th style track which when activated allows me to choose between many different arppegio riffs. It's also really nice that when you make a change to a variation's track, you can do it in single mode or in global mode. This allows you to only change one variation and not all four if you like.

Having the live guitar riffs really makes this model sound different than all the other ones I sell. I also think that the Drum tracks have more punch than most of my other models.

One thing I wish is that I could remove some of the Reverb in a live groove drum track. There are times I would like to have less than has been sampled, but after playing a bit with the effects, I don't think this can be done. I can turn of the global reverb, but the reverb is still on the loop and I can go into the individual drum track's reverb, but this only turns off the reverb if there was midi drums instead of the loop.

But all in all, when I listen to this keyboard, I do think it is one of the best I've heard. I didn't expect to be so impressed after much of what I've read on the internet.

I spoke with AJ today and my few complaints were that the keyboard does not have a standard 16 track midi sequencer. It's like many of the other Ketron products that just lets you record one pass and that's it. I told AJ this is something I think the company should look into. AJ also informed me that the way the board is right now, no sampling and no pattern recording. Both of these issues will be addressed in version 3.0 according to AJ.

I really think the biggest obstacle will be the selling price. I think Ketron can update this model to fit most everyone's needs and desires.

My issue is that Ketron is charging the dealer a lot more than comparable Keyboards such as the Tyros3 and Korg PA2XPRO and Korg PA800. I know there is a Midjay and a high powered replacement for the SD1PLus in this product, but at the price Ketron has set up as a MAP price, which in my opinion was done because anything higher would have made this a more difficult product to sell, the price a dealer pays for an Auyda leaves such a low profit margin and so the effort it will take to show, train and provide assistance after the sale might hurt if like me, I can sell alot of other much less expensive keyboards and make more money. I hope you all understand this. It's not that I don't want a good deal for you players, but I don't think the manufacturer of distributor are understanding that a dealer needs to make a fair profit to keep their doors open and right now with this Audya, that is not the case. I think only time will tell if Italy will adjust their price that the distributor pays so that the distributor will have happy stores and then happy customers!

Sorry that was a lot of words............but if you are in the Los Angeles area and would like to come by and try the Audya, it is here!



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George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California
818-881-5566
www.kayesmusicscene.com

Thanks for the review. Always good to hear your viewpoint, George. Nice balance of pro and con. Come to think of it, Both Frank and George are good at getting at the good, AND the bad points of any arranger. And manage to avoid the usual fanboy flack.

Wish the rest of us were so lucky...

Thank You George! As usual a very fair and professional evaluation. Given your assesment on the pricing, the economy and the overall oppinions on the Audya .... They won't be flyin' off the shelf!!

George thank you for your review. What is your selling price for the Audya in your store?

The suggested retail price set up by the distributor is currently $6295.00 and the MAP Price has also been set by the distributor at $4999.00. The Retail price should really be more like $7,000.00 based on dealer cost and the standard mark ups set up by every other manufacturer. Therefore, the MAP of $4999.00 is really very low not allowing for any more discounts by dealers and in my opinion, this is not allowing for an industry standard margin of profit. So, like the other few stores selling them, $4999.00 would be the bottom price.



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George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California
818-881-5566
www.kayesmusicscene.com

After posting what I'm feeling about the pricing of this product and knowing just how much time I need to spend with each customer coming into my store, I feel like setting up 2 prices. One at MAP for a "not much help needed" and a second price for customers needing support. I know this wouldn't make any of you happy, but the more I think about how low the margin is, I feel like it's what needs to be done by dealers who offer hours of assistance. In every other product I sell I would never think of doing pricing like this, but in the case of Ketron's current price structure I fell I have no choice if I want to sell these and still be able to stay in business. Many of you only buy products on line but those of you who come into brick and mortar stores like mine realize that the cost of doing business is much greater.
You can tell I'm really having mixed feelings about wanting to sell the Audya with it's current price structure.
I really hope you all can understand my concern and why I'm writing so much about this obstacle when I really think the product is quite amazing.



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George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California
818-881-5566
www.kayesmusicscene.com

George,

I completely agree, that's a great idea, if you don't mind can you email me how you are going to word that.

I love it

Frank

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www.AudioworksCT.com
203.876.1133

Jay at ketronus prices his stuff that way, or at least he used to.
Only thing is, both of you would give help anyway, because that's the way you are!
DonM

[This message has been edited by DonM (edited 06-17-2009).]

George thanks for your honest review.

In reference to pricing and I'm sure your familiar with the old style of home organ/piano sales. Back in the 70s when I worked for the Hammond/Steinway dealer in an effort to keep margins where they should be we always included 3 free lessons with the sale, but when the inevitable price shopper came in we had the flexibility of offering more free lessons so that we could maintain a profitable margin.

George, what about the customer who you spend 30 min/1hr with on a product in the store & then they leave without purchasing anything and buy online anyway?

John, perhaps if the "tyre-kicker" provided a deposit, maybe $75, and if they purchase somewhere else the deposit is refunded, less a 15% surcharge.

Dennis

Trouble is, without a full manual from Ketron yet, just exactly how DO you provide much in the way of technical assistance?

That's a big can of worms you have kicked there, George, especially during Ketron's 'beta' program as they slowly keep changing the OS.

Interesting George...I do understand where you are comming from and you need to do whatever it is to run your business.

I bought my T2 and PA2XPRO before I knew Frank (or you)....I have never had a need to call the place of purchase for any help!

The manual on especially the PA2 is outstanding, and the forum is superb, and I mean superb. So no need for any contact with the dealer...(and the dealer would probably not be any help anyways. It is a brick and mortor store here in Ft. Wayne, IN.

So...bottem line is...If I thought I needed a lot of support from a dealer because the manual is poor and/or the forum is poor, (and/or the country distributor support is poor) I would probably buy something else no matter how good it sounded.

At this point in time...I think Ketron is in this category, as is Wersi.

I don't think either company cares much about the USA...and that's their choice.

Lee S.

Now you're getting it Lee. YES some companies don't give a flyin hoot about the US market for their arranger keyboards. Ketron and Wersi are clearly in this category. Roland is also on a fast track to making a nice comfy spot for themselves on that list too. Just give RolandUS a call about their arranger line and start asking some serious questions. You'll learn real fast that RolandUS has no interest in dealing with the arranger boards. Ask anything about the synths, V-drums, ect and they're tripping all over themselves to help you there.

I don't think Ketron or Wersi have interest in the US because well that simply means the US will demand more IMO regarding Western Styles. Ketron and Wersi have done their homework for the Euro market.., but even though the Ketron's DO sound good with many western styles.., some still aren't all the way there and have an obvious Euro flavor to them.

And personally, I think the US Ketron dealers should tell Ketron Italy EXACTLY where to put their MAP, and put the same markup on it they do for all other arrangers. Then, when sales dry up to a Gobi Desert-like condition, perhaps Ketron will lower the wholesale price to where it is competitive. What they are basically asking is for their DEALERS to suffer because of their incompetence.

Asking a Ketron dealer to steer customers to a product they will make LESS money on than another product they have in stock is like asking you to shoot yourself in the head...

Are they doing this in the US only, or are their margins slimmer worldwide?

Many companies as well as boutique style manufacturers typically have very small marks on certain products in their lineup. The standard dealer "B" mark often doesn't apply so Ketron with their Audya dealer pricing isn't unusual (the Korg Oasys had a similar price structure when it was introduced). Its up to the dealer to decide whether or not he or she should carry that product and if it warrants taking up space on their sales floor. If George felt the MAP to dealer cost difference was too minimal he shouldn't have ordered the Audya in the first place.

There are many customers who will merely use a dealer for their knowledge or to see a product in person only to order it afterwards via online because someone else made them a better deal. There really is no way to stop this from happening and as a dealer one hopes the prospective customer is being sincere in their inquiry and will value dealer support after the sale. Having two prices for the same product simply makes the customer wonder why and in the end it will hurt the dealer more than help.

When I've sold products with marginal profit I did so knowing full well it was more of a convenience for my clientele and definitely not going to make me rich. Sometime just having that product in will help sell many lower priced products for the dealer and I'm sure that may be the case in George's situation. Customers may come to see the Audya only to buy a Tyros 3 or PAX2 when they see and hear them all in person. The fact is most people wouldn't purchase and Audya even if it were $4,000, not because it's not worth the money, but because keyboards in excess of $3,000 simply don't sell well. Arranger keyboards are a niche market and the bulk of arranger sales are lower end PSR's to the home market. TOTL arranger clientele are few and far between and while many people on Synthzone can easily voice their opinion of TOTL products, many people who do bash these products don't actually own an instrument that costs in excess of $4,000 so an Audya would never be a consideration for them. Still people don't seem to have a problem voicing there disdain for a product they'd never actually afford which seems odd to me.

Ensnareyou,
All the years I sold Solton and Ketron during the Lou and Aldo Bell/Solton years, before CMC Distributors bought them about 3 years ago, the "B" Discount structure was on all the models they sold. Although some of the models were more expensive than the competition, the margins a dealer could make were equal to all other manufactures.
It's only been in the past year that the new Distributor and or Ketron Italy have changed all the margins. This is what I'm complaining about. To make you, the customers feel like the product is not to expensive compared to all the others, the dealer selling the product is the one loosing. I understand the customer is getting a lower price, but I also think the manufacturer is still making exactly what he needs to make, and perhaps the distributor is making exactly what they need to make, but the dealer selling to the customer is not making a margin needed at such a high cost for the goods.
I agree, that if the pricing is not right that just don't buy it, but I also serve the Southern California musicians who can't find these products anywhere else. If Kaye's Music Scene doesn't sell it, Ketron would probably have a hard time finding some other store to sell their products.
My feeling is that Ketron Italy, even though they are a small company still needs to sell their products world wide and if other dealers feel as I do, they might just not have enough dealers to survive the recession.


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George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California
818-881-5566
www.kayesmusicscene.com

Give 'm Hell George!!

If I were you (and I'm not) I would take orders only, no stock. If someone wants one bad enough make it "Cash and carry" see 'ya later!! I know that's not you!! But sometimes you just have to do whats right for you!

George....
All of us want you and all dealers who supply us with equipment to make a fair profit. I am appalled at the what has happened to many automotive franchises...especially Chrysler...where the dealers invested heavily per the manufacturer's mandates...only to be dropped as a franchise like it was no big deal.

I sincerely hope there is no correlation between the Chrysler scenerio and how the musical equipment manufacturers are operating.

Eddie

I

I feel that if Ketron force you to make a lower profit on their line than other lines, they should stock the Audya (one unit) in your store gratis. Then, WHEN you make the sale, you pay them at that point. There are a tiny handful of dealers in the US anyway, it would not break Ketron. But it WOULD take the sting out of having to BUY an Audya, just to show it at the inflated price they have managed to bring it out at, and force you to take a lower margin.

With the economy the way it is, who in their right minds will sell a customer an Audya, if he could sell a T3 and make more profit? And cost their customer less, to boot? It seems the predominant buyers of Audya's are already Ketron owners. Who, apparently, are the world's least demanding arranger user (if you read how outraged they get when the Audya's shortcomings are talked about). You shouldn't actually NEED one in stock to sell it to them...

And, Ensnareyou... So you have to actually be able to AFFORD a Picasso, before you can decide (and post about) whether you like him or not?

You bring up a very important fact, I used to work for COMPUSA and I was number 1 in sales for many months in NJ not because I tried to cheat people out of a deal and for my gains but because I was honest and believed in the products that I sold with my knowledge to help the customer with their specific need, but that was exactly what most customers were, they asked us alot of questions then decided on what computer they would buy and then buy it mail-order, well, I explained to them that it is a free country and they can buy anywhere they want but if they don't buy from us we would not exist to provide the service that a dealer provides so, what happend? no more COMPUSA only in Florida were TigerDirect bought them out,although TigerDirect is a great mailorder company and has some presence in Florida which has some loacl stores the local economy in the Tristate area suffers with job losses and economic instability,that is very sad but what can you do? the writing was on the wall many many years ago and now? economic crises?
you decide.

-Vangelis

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George, this just looks like "business as usual" from these guys. What a shame! I'll promise that I'll buy anything I need from either you or Frank if you can supply it, and trust you to set a fair price you can live with. Independent dealers you can trust are few and far between. You met internet prices on most of my purchases, and the total purchase is usually only higher than the on-line suppliers by the cost of the freight, which they generally throw in. That's a small price to pay for service from a trusted source and not enough difference to go elsewhere, for sure.

I ordered 6 keyboard bags and cases from Frank and didn't ask the price. When the bill came I was totally happy with his product(s), price and service.

I appreciate and count on you guys, even though you're thousands of miles away.


Russ



[This message has been edited by captain Russ (edited 06-19-2009).]