Just wanted to get ideas as to why people might NOT like a particular Arranger keyboard. Please keep the critique 'positive' - in otherwords, realize that developers might use this for research.

E.G.

Ketron X1 - Price, OS, Synth sounds.
Yamaha Tyros 2 - Latin Styles, Drums, Arranger Bass.

Etc ...

Again, please focus on the TOPIC ~ or at least, let's try too.

Thanks,

AJ

I think it has a lot to do with what you are familiar with in the past. Then a little lack of opportunity to thoroughly appraise the new and different because they are either not available in your locality, or you cannot get sufficient time on the keyboard to make a thorough appraisal.
Keith

AJ,
For me an arranger has to have styles either preset or widely available that suit the music I play - which is light jazz and old standards - including the latin stuff.

That is the problem - how does a company create such an instrument that suits a multitude of players playing different kinds of music. Perhaps offering various preset style sets when ordering might be the answer.

Also, to many gadgets make it very hard to use live and almost impossible for the serious gigging musician to learn about all the features of any keyboard - not enough time to do both.

As for realistic sounds - well - how many opinions do you want? Everyone's experience and frame of reference is different so how do you please everyone? As an example - how many arranger players do you personally know that have never sat in the audience of a major symphony concert? How would they know what a live string section really sounds like? Or, how many players have never really heard a great big band like Basie or Woody in person to know what that really sounds like?

The issue of weight always comes up on this forum as well as 76 vs 61 keys. Well, again - if you are a certain age weight is a problem - but not for everyone.

I also want a completly finished arranger when it arrives - not one that I must wait for "upgrades" to fulfill all the pre-release "hype" and promises.

Hammer

I don't like an arranger if it does not have the following:

-a good price, sweet price range for me is $500-$1000. I understand anything below $500 might jeopardize quality. Roland GW8 is a good example that falls in the range but the 61 keys are limited.
-does not have 4 variations/fill-ins
-does not have at least semi-weighted keys or just bad feeling keybed. Hard to play piano with nice feelings without good keybed
-nice frequently used sounds such as piano,fat basses, strings, elec piano, brass, sax, flutes, guitars and drums.
-difficult to navigate like the Korgs, yuck

I use arranger for pleasure at home and maybe once or twice a week for gigs at churches playing contemporary songs with many styles (rock, ballad, 8 beat, etc).

If the arranger is not flexible i.e if i need to use additional hardware like a computer to edit sounds, sequence, or create and modify styles, i wont buy it. It has to have good pianos and drums and guitars and brass. If its awkward to navigate around i wont buy it. And if it does not have internal speakers i am less likely to buy it, but its not a deal breaker. It must have a lot of modern styles as well as great jazz styles too. And if the build quality is poor (is not durable and would crack or get easily damaged when carting around) i am probably not going to buy it.

Hi AJ,

I asked a similar question once. The answers I received were similar to the few you have gotten so far; basically 76 weighted keys, full sound and sequence editing, at least 1GB of sample RAM, a million free styles to choose from, weighing less than 15 lbs., huge color touch screen, etc. all for under $500.00. I would take one.

But seriously, I tried to get another company to do something that I thought might solve several customer requests. Build an instrument with a decent sized touch screen with soft-buttons along the bottom, dedicated buttons for sound selection, sequence/arranger control and storage functions, and a group of assignable buttons that could be used for arranger functions (start/stop/fills), vocal processor on/off, one-shot sample playback, sequence phrases, a good amount of assignable battery-backed RAM, etc. Get FATAR to make a 76 note version of the TP100LR. Then have a choice in operating systems, one with basic workstation functions (sounds and sequencer with editing), one with basic arranger functions with lyrics display (no multi-track sequencing, in-depth sound editing, etc.), and then a full blown O/S including the full workstation and arranger programming, vocal processor, multi-buss/multi-effects processor and so forth. The I/O on the back panel could consist of stereo line outputs and two 1/4" TRS mic/line inputs and 3 dedicated assignable pedal inputs that can accept switch or variable pedals, and then a user installable accessory module, consisting of 4 additional audio outputs and two XLR audio inputs, S-video output, balanced XLR stereo outputs and maybe a digital output, etc.

This way one hardware shell can cover a number of different user needs.

Dave

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Wm. David McMahan
LearnMyKeyboard
JazzItUp Band
The Modulators

Korg - user interface
Ketron - user interface, lack of local dealers
Yamaha - user interface, fragility
Wersi - where do I start?

I think one of the main achievements that manufacturers must attain in their totl arranger products is "quality" Drum Kits. Let's face it, high end arrangers can cost "thousands" of dollars MORE than your typical top of the line Workstation keyboard e.g. Motif ES/XS etc. If people fork over top dollar for a totl arranger they should expect and get top of the line sounds - including Drums.

The Audya has accomplished that mission but so far the others haven't really, including Yamaha to name just one. Not that I'm picking on them of course.

Portability is at the top of the list too but as it's been mentioned already - if it's light but shabbily made i.e. flimsy, easily scratched or damaged, it will be a big drawback. If manufacturers can succeed in making it light and built like a tank also, then all the better.

Must have the latest technologies i.e. USB 2.0 , etc. And would they PLEASEEEEE!! give us some "decent" amounts of internal memory for once! Flash RAM is incredibly cheap these days yet manufacturers doll out these amazingly (in a bad way) - "paltry" memory amounts that just doesn't make any sense. Nuff said..

A great key bed feel/action is a must as spongy limp keys just don't measure up for most players. There are exceptions of course.

76 or 88 keys is preferable for me and has actually been proven to be preferable for half of all arranger keyboard players worldwide. A fully weighted key bed for the 88 key version would be nice too of course.

Keep the Mod/Pitch wheels (or Stick) at the immediate left of the keys, since that is the most convenient place for it in my opinion. With the Audya you have to 'reach' for them, and because of it, it takes longer and can detract from your performance in my opinion.

Balanced Inputs and Outputs would give arrangers more of a "professional" feel too. A stereo Mic input would be nice also.

A Large LCD display is a must in today's world if you ask me. Yamaha seems to be ahead of the pack in that arena currently, but Korg, Roland, and Ketron each have suitable displays on their totl arrangers. An easily navigable OS is essential as well. If you have a huge LCD display and it's tough as nails to navigate around the OS you might as well keep the LCD dinky instead. Again, Yamaha seems to have the easiest OS layout and functionality on the market. That may soon change with Roland's new offering though. We'll have to wait and see.

The NUMBER ONE priority of any arranger should be the sounds of course. The more realistic the sounds are the greater the chance that an arranger has of accumulating additional sales.

A Sampler with the ability to add AT LEAST a Gig of RAM is essential in today's world too in my opinion. And DDR or DDR2/3 compatibility would be extremely helpful as well. It's getting extremely hard to find PC 100/133 in large sizes today. Bump it up to DDR or DDR2/3 guys.

I could go on and on but I'll spare everyone for the time being. [img]http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/smile.gif[/img] Good thread topic though AJ. [img]http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/cool.gif[/img]

All the best,
Mike

My only want would be an PSR-S900 with a 76 note weighted, hammer action.

It has everything else I need...great OS, lots of styles, built in speakers, excellent sounds.

Dislike Roland's OS, lack of contemporary sounds, heavy weight(on TOTL models), pitch/mod paddle.

Can't comment on Korg, Wersi, or Ketron, because I haven't played them.

My priority is to be able to use the sounds from the manufactures I choose, not just what the Arranger manufacture makes for you. (Akai sample loading should be just a start, and VSTi can pretty much solve the rest)

Downsides of arrangers I have tried (All relate to TOTL)

Bohm: Limited styles, No Touch Screen, A little too Germanic sounding

Ketron: Small Screen size and no touch sensitivity, a lot of the sounds tend to lack body, not the easiest OS, Layout

Korg: Small Screen, Not 100% sure of the OS

Lionstracs: No practical experience, so cannot give a definitive answer (Unless you have heard or tried something live with your own style of playing, there is no way for you to really know what is like)

Orla: A bit old sounding, but a nice pleasant sound

Roland: Apart from the styles (Some of the best out there) the sound engine is way outclassed by every other manufacture (Time has not been kind to them (Now if they bought out an arranger with the new Atelier sound engine, then all other manufactures would really have to pull their finger out) small screen, heavy keybed (I prefer a lighter feel)

Wersi: (OAS 7 but without OAA with which I have minimal experience) dated styles, Re-worked voices (From previous OAS versions) not entirely successful (New voices only bettered by the new Atelier) Drum module. (The drums really are an abortion Thank goodness for Akai samples and EZ Drummer)

Yamaha: No touch screen, limited onboard control/editing, styles (Much to song specific and repetitive for me)

In the final analysis it comes down to personal opinion, so in truth there is no better or worse arranger or feature, just what suits the player.