And don't forget, English is NOT the official language of the United States. In fact, there is NO official language in the USA.

Dzai4 jian4!

Taike, the Intellectual Dumbass" aka Ru2 Shang Da4 Ben4 Dan4

I still dont get it and laugh at people when they say USA's official language is English...
whats gonna happen 30-40 years from now when
white people are minority? Spanis becomes officical???
Even though now it is already second OFFICIAL.

I'm assuming here that English is your native language, although it would seem that some of our international posters clearly have a much better grasp of it than yourself. So, in light of that, could you possibly find an interpreter so that I can understand what you're trying to get across? If you get my gist.

Gosh, I simply refuse to speak English when it is demanded by arrogant and racist people.

First of all, can we PLEASE keep racism and bigotry out of this thread ?!?
I don't think it has anything to do with chas' original post!!!...

If I were to live in another country, I would certainly learn that language because I would have a NEED to.
I would love to learn Italian (and have made a feeble attempt at it) because it is the language of my ancestors. Unfortunately, my parents did not teach it to me and spoke Italian only when they did not want us to know what they were saying.

I have German neighbors who speak very good English even though they have been here for just a short while. I asked them about it and they said that English is taught in many (if not most) European schools because it is such an International language. How did that happen? Was it arrogant Americans who said "if you want to do business with us you must speak our language", or did it begin because of the proximity of England to Europe, and the fact that the English brought the language to other parts of the world as they were 'colonizing' them? I would think that centuries ago, the citizens of many countries spoke 'Roman' as well as their native language.

Are we "intellectually lazy' because we DON'T learn another language? ... Perhaps, but is there ONE other language we should learn? ... or should we attempt to learn them all?
I, personally, would LOVE to see the 'talking heads' in the media learn and speak "proper" English ... I am amazed and disappointed with what is happening to 'American English' (as opposed to "The King's English") - the improper use of the words 'he or she or I' when it should be 'him, her, or me'... and I am CONVINCED that our local newspaper does not have 'spellcheck' or 'grammar check' and that none of the writers proofreads their own material before it is printed - or perhaps they do and don't know the difference ... and when did it become proper to say 'no problem' instead of 'you're welcome' as a response to 'thank you' ... and why have SO many people forgotten the phrase 'excuse me' ?!?!? ...
I may be going off chas' intent for this thread, and I apologize for that, but I really think many Americans should be interested in 'learning' to speak and write our own language before learning another one ...
JMHO,
t.

I am sorry, but intellectual laziness doesn't cut it...

Why not be as worked up about a lack of knowledge of the hard sciences too? How many of us are familiar with string theory? Who knows all the formulas of Newton, Einstein, Hawking?

Who has read the literature from every major religion in the world. Ever read the Koran, or do you just quote soundbites from it? Do you know the differences between Shia and Sunni Muslims?

And who can work out checksums for Roland sys-ex strings in their head? Or figure out a Yamaha manual? Or tell us why the Audya CAN'T play all the guitar chords?

(OK, disregard that last paragraph )

Look, there's a LOT to be said for knowledge for it's own sake, but be practical, folks... What's the point of spending a fortune nationally, to teach three or four languages to kids who will be unlikely to ever NEED to use them but a handful of times in their lives? Do you honestly think the majority of Chinese kids can speak English? They have enough trouble getting the educational resources to be able to speak all the different languages in their OWN country, let alone worry about us! Remember, the veneer of Westernization that China is showing us now doesn't represent the 1.3B (that's billions with a 'B' ) that speak over six very different languages internally...

So, in all fairness, there are probably more Chinese that DON'T speak English than there are Americans who can't speak Chinese... Maybe even more than Americans who can't write English properly (although this forum seems to indicate that IS close to 100% )

But, I've traveled a fair bit around Europe and the States... And I've run into people that couldn't speak English at all in BOTH places...

And, please! The idea that anyone visiting us (or even immigrating here) MUST speak English is as ridiculous as the thought that we MUST learn Italian, or French, or Dutch or Spanish, or Swedish, Danish and Norwegian, JUST so we can take a vacation there...

Learning a foreign language in a mono-culture should be an elective. We have little enough resources to teach our kids their OWN language. You only have to look around at the half illiterate postings from English speakers (from BOTH sides of the Pond and Down Under, too ) we get here to realize prioritizing speaking other languages is insane...

The good news is, here are over 40 posts on a potentially controversal subject, with widely differing opinions, all written with class. And that's GOOD!

My observations:

1. Chas and Don are correct: the level of illiteracy, including communication created
by mass media folks is a national embarrasment. NPR; at least the Lexington outlet, and educational television are some of the worst offenders. Don's past life as a "media type" are serving him well. I teach college seniors and some of the best of the "techie" types (engineers) can't write a literate sentence. That's because it's hard to cram all the technical material and humanities into a 4 year program. The humanities suffer.

2. I grew up as an "Army Brat". Sadly, the term "ugly American" is pretty much universal
outside the US. Living in different geographic locations and experiencing different cultures is a real "eye opener."
As part of an international community, we need to understand that "our way" is not automatically the only way.

Thanks to all for a meaningful exchange of opinions in a well reasoned manner.


Russ

2.

Diki......love the diversity of opinions here. But to lapse into silliness here for a moment; let's say God suddenly appeared and granted you your choice of 1) understanding all of Stephen Hawking's theories or 2) instant fluency in the top 30 (most spoken) languages in the world. Let's also say that this encounter (with God) took place at an international beauty pageant. Which would you choose? Yeah, me too. The prospect of an interesting and diverse sex life is going to win out over math and science every time. That's why there are so many dumb, ignorant (but happy) people in the world. It all seems so clear to me now. Oh well. Ce la vie.

chas

So all of a sudden I am the bigot and racist?

One who's lived his whole life in one country, has been exposed to one language only, and still can't spell or write a coherent post, shouldn't act like he's superior to all those that at least try to speak the language or have a better command than he does.

There is nothing arrogant or racist in any of my posts. As a matter of fact, what I said was in reference to that poster's replies. Without me even making one arrogant or racist remark I am yet blamed for being the instigator. It's amazing how one's racist and arrogant behavior can turn him into an innocent victim.

If I demand people to speak MY language in MY country than it's only fair that I speak THEIR language in THEIR country and not complain that THEY don't speak MINE. I've traveled the world over and have heard my share of "why can't they speak English" although not in such civilized terms. And "how can they eat that crap" or "I need to get myself some real food (MacDonald's)" doesn't sound racist or arrogant? It sure does to me. Just the other day I heard several of your countrymen refer to Japanese as Japs. I doubt they meant it as a term of endearment.

Chas asked for reasons and several international posters, including myself, have stated their reasons. Those that speak English only have so far come up with ONE reason why they shouldn't have to acquire a second language. Albeit one that showed blatant disregard and ignorance. I am honored and gladly accept the title of Intellectual Dumbass.

Why is it necessary for those that only speak English to get so defensive and can't resist throwing in "you'd better speak my language when you're in my country" and "why should I have to learn a second language since English is the international language" remarks. It's totally uncalled for but it does show underlying resentment towards non-speakers of English. They even show resentment towards those that try their best to get their point across. I thought the forced assimilation period had come to an end but, to all appearances, it hasn't.

Having said all that, does it mean that I expect people to learn a second language? No! I most certainly don't. I do, however, have a problem with their superiority complex which is all too apparent in their writings.

Perhaps it would've been more favorable if I'd just stayed in my dormant state. I know for a fact that I am an unwanted poster here. Certain members would love to see me go.

Mr. Mads, I have nothing against you and hold you in high esteem as I always have.

Regards,

Taike, the Intellectual Dumbass" aka Ru2 Shang Da4 Ben4 Dan4

By the way, Diki, Chinese (PRC) people only study Mandarin Chinese and not any of the other dialects. It's only in recent years that students in Taiwan have Taiwanese added to their language curriculum.


[This message has been edited by Taike (edited 08-19-2010).]

Taike ...
I ABSOLUTELY DID NOT call you, or mean to imply that you were, a bigot or a racist.
All I did was take a line from YOUR post and ask that those words not be used or implied in this thread, because I had a fear that the thread might have taken that direction after your post ... Obviously, I have far less command of my speaking or writing of the English than I think I have, if my words could have been so misinterpreted ...
My sincerest apologies for not being clearer in my thoughts ...
With all due respect to everyone here ...
t.

No harm done, Mr. Mads. I take full responsibility for having misinterpreted your words.

Taike