I have been hearing about the Korg PA2x...the ultimate synth edit capable arranger...From my past experience, and recent reading of the Korg manuals..I have the opinion , although the PA2x is great at editing sounds...it is surely not superior over all..In fact the Roland G70 has the exact editing capabilities in tone edits..and exceeds the Korg in drum edits..

Also on the plus column of the Roland..Effects that have always been a strength for Korg...again although good..do not match up to the G70 in effects edits and total number of effects units...The E80, even has more than it's counter G70..

I am not dishing out on the PA2x..in fact I like it...but I think it is a good idea to put this comparison out front...Maybe we can have a civil discussion here about our thoughts on the top models when it comes to editing sounds...

I believe this discussion would further establish why the top arrangers are the better machine over the respective "synth workstations"...I for one would never want a workstation (only) over the "arranger workstations"..

I also question why you folks think that the current workstation only boards incorporate "arranger" capabilities...They do NOT!!!..the exception is the MediaStation..that many knock as an arranger..yet except the thought that a workstation can do the job of a arranger...

Arpeggios can only fill a need to a point..and not very well...and if you think you would want to work gigs with just a workstation..especially if you are coming from a arranger background...I want to hear from you..(still have this bridge for sale.. ..)

The truth anyone that thinks the workstation rules..has not worked an arranger to it's up most capabilities...


So..what are your thoughts?

Well, for a start off, Fran, you really need to read the PA2 manual before you make comparisons. The PA2 has FULL, synth-like voice editing (full ADSR, for instance, Roland has ADR) LFO type as well as rate and depth and delay, and many other things. Basically, it is close to a full Triton voice editing. THEN, on top of all the additional power, Korg actually allows you to STORE a voice edit for later recall. Roland has no way to store your edits so that they become a USER Tone, for recall at any time. Want to use an edited Tone in a live setup? You have to repeat making all the edits! It's a PITA.

I have no idea what you are smoking, but to even SUGGEST that the G70 has anywhere near the Korg's tone edit capability only demonstrates your lack of knowledge. Sorry to be harsh here, but those are the facts.

Even the PA1 manual has over twenty pages about the voice editing. Try actually READING them before you make completely erroneous misstatements like that, dude...

As for arps being different to arranger usage, Well DUH! Of course it is different. But it depends on what kind of music you are making. Old school, bigband, jazz, etc., the arranger is going to rule. But chilldown, acid jazz, ambient, triphop, for those kinds of styles, the WS rules. You have got to look out past your own narrow range of styles before you can make such sweeping statements, Fran.



That's a pretty amazing statement from someone that so far has failed to show any mastery of the arranger himself. Or, for that matter, any music from the MS to show you have any right to claim its' superiority.

Personally, I think that anyone that actually DOES get a mastery of either form of keyboard is capable of wowing us all. It is still down to the player, IMO...

[This message has been edited by Diki (edited 08-20-2009).]

Diki..stop being a "Diki"...

I have not stated the "superiority of the MS"..your words ...

Also what Korg is using as LFO edits is so similar to Rolands "vibrato" edits...score even.."..and yes Korg has the very useful extra ADSR component..

Another thing we over emphasize..No storage of edits on Roland...Big deal..so we have to save in user programs..that unlimited area we have on the Rolands.. ..When you want to use as edited tones..just lock out the things you do not want to change..we still have the style selection buttons..

Diki try to be less aggressive in your comments...I do just fine with my skill levels..and I would bet anything I am a happier person then yourself..

BTW: yes I am sorta closed minded to "modern " music....could it be..that most of it just plain sucks...

Get my drift?

Now is there any one with constructive thoughts..

1,2,cha cha cha

Hi Fran.

The Pa2X has a full blown workstation under the hood. It is not a cut down version of KORG EDS engine. I know no arranger has a COMBI mode, but the Pa2X has something pretty darn close. You have 16 true oscillators that can all run independent of each other and emulate everything you get in a COMBI mode on top of the fact that they are basically 16 full program sounds under a single sound.

In short, it's pretty complex



That does not make any sense to me. Modulating pitch is Vibrato, where a LFO is a completely different animal altogether. The waveforms range from basic Sine waves to experimental waveforms so your looking at one heck of a deep engine here that can easily produce sounds that continuously evolve and even step.

Regards
James

[This message has been edited by Irishacts (edited 08-20-2009).]

Sound parameters Meaning
Attack Attack time. This is the time during which the
sound goes from zero (at the moment when
you strike a key) to it’s maximum level.
Decay Decay time. Time to go from the final Attack
level to the beginning of the Sustain.
Release Release time. This is the time during which the
sound goes from the sustaining phase, to zero.
The Release is triggered by releasing a key.
Cutoff Filter cutoff. This sets the sound brightness.
Resonance Use the Filter Resonance to boost the cutoff
frequency.
LFO Depth Intensity of the Vibrato (LFO).
LFO Speed Speed of the Vibrato (LFO).
LFO Delay Delay time before the Vibrato (LFO) begins,
after the sound starts.
Sty
Sty


James here is content taking from page 102 in the PA2x....Seems that Korg uses the Low freq oscillator..as a vibrato to me...

Hi Fran.



You can do that too, but you can also modulate the pitch or any element of the sound with a large array of functions. There's nothing really locked down to a specific way of working on a KORG. The engine is extremely flexible so you can get really imaginative and create some very unique sounds.

Also the LFO has an array of different wavesapes as I mentioned above, not just a Sine wave which you would use for a Vibrato. You can do all sort of crazy stuff.

You really have to think outside the box when working with a KORG because it's so flexible. It's a very deep engine.

Regards
James

James, I couldn't find any other parameters the LFO uses in the PA2x manual..Do you have a page number?

I am aware of parameters the LFO will modulate on full featured synthesis, but it appeared to me the Korg arranger does not include these additional parameters..

Hi Fran.

Look for anything listed as AMS (Alternate Modulation Source). In the advanced Edit manual I can see 5 of them on page 13 for starters. To the left you have the LFO somewhat like the Roland setup. In addition to that you have the AMS which allows you to route other modulators to this pitch parameter.

Now jump to page 16 and you can see AMS again. So you can actually route a modulator to the filters frequency and resonance. You can even reduce the intensity of your modulator so that it only slightly effects one item it's assigned to, and heavily effects the others.

If you keep flipping through the pages you will see AMS popping up all over the place. You will even see it popping up beside ADSR for different functions, not just the AMP.

Finally, jump page 29. It's an entire page of all the items you can call up under the AMS menu and assign.

Regards
James

Worth a look too... on page 24 halfway down on the left you can see all the different waveforms you can apply to your LFO to shape it.

This is a really cool feature when used with the AMS. It allows you shape the attack of notes to have them plucked, or blown like a Trumpet. Or just crazy Pads that evolve.