I'm sure this subject has been done to death.....but. I thought it was interesting that Diki, a working pro, who has had his arranger (G70) a few years now, would choose to buy a second G70 instead of say, a T2, or T3, or PA800, etc. He has stated many times his admiration for some of Yammy's SA or Korg's DNC voices. Of course, I can't speak for Diki (no one can ), but what it says to me is that 'as a working pro, I'd rather have a instantly-usable backup than the fleeting gratification and pleasure of a few new styles and voices. It also says to me, 'I have taken the time to thoroughly learn my instrument and therefore know it's potential for producing the kind of music that I do in my professional performances.

I don't really know if this is what Diki thinks and I probably shouldn't use him by name as an example, but......I think this is a classic example of one side of the upgrade/don't upgrade decision. There's also Tony (KN6000?), 124 (I30), and many others, pro and amateur, who have resisted the impulse to get a new T3 while sitting on a 6mo. old, 20% explored, T2.

Like a diving competition, we'll throw out the 'high and low' scores, like the impulse buyer (me and my friend Capt. Russ ), the 'buy 'em, try 'em, sell 'em' buyer (Fran), the 'I'm not trading up until the technology allows them to play what I'm thinking' buyer (non-buyer, actually). But what about the rest of you? Is it the realism of the 'new' voices, which, BTW, never sound that good once we get them home or try to use them live.....most of us don't have the playing skills to emulate a good sax or guitar player, no matter what the voice sounds like. Is it the addition of some new feature like triple MP3 player, super-duper harmonizers that can make you sound like the Beach Boys OR the Supremes. Usually, most of these features are either never used or could be purchased as inexpensive separate units. So why do we take a one grand loss on our old kb while paying a one grand premium on the new one, for what, on close inspection, is a very minor upgrade. 'First guy on the block' syndrome (braggin' rights), 'my audience is going to love me twice as much with this new kb', 'I can't listen to these same boring styles another day' (boredom), or .....?

Which of these things have the manufacturers tapped into to keep us buying? If you're not buying, how/why have you resisted? Your thoughts.

chas

From my viewpoint.., (at least from what I've seen on the forum over the years)., I've notice that many just hit their own personal limits.., and drop a board for a new one without ever really scratching the surface of the one they have.

The reality is.. ALL of these arrangers can last a person YEARS.., if that person is willing to explore the many options these arrangers have. However.., you mention the word "edit" or "tweek" to some here and they run the other way. I cannot understand why people here blow through boards so quickly..., especially when 95% of the time the board already has the tools to do what's needed.

I think you'd see people keeping them longer if more people were willing to learn something new and get past their OWN limitations. Your boards already have the tools.., it's YOU that has to learn how to use them.

First things first: Hi Chas and Squeak!

One of my first posts was asking why so many have the need to constantly getting new keyboards.

So far I've had two keyboards. Frankly speaking, I'm not really that into keyboards as my first love is and always will be the organ.

Sure, having a new instrument is all nice and that but, yes, once again, I don't see the purpose as long as one is not trying to improve his/her playing skills. As for me, styles and voices do not mean a thing if the playing doesn't impress me (you know, the pro on a cheap Casio and the bungling player on a top model story). But that's how players are judged - not by what keyboard they play but by their playing ability.

I rather work on styling instead of styles, learning new playing techniques, to apply these techniques to songs and arrangements. Styling and playing techniques are very important to me since I mainly play concert pieces (on the organ). Technology comes a distant second.

Taike

I'm in the same category as Diki in that both my keyboards are identical in every respect. Same model, same memory, same OS, same everything. If one board were to crap out, which fortunately, has never happened, my backup board is ready to go at all times.

Each time I make a change in a registration, style, EQ settings, etc.. in one keyboard, the other is usually changed the same day.

There are a few things that would cause me to upgrade from my current Yamaha PSR-3000s, one of which would be the addition of a built-in hard drive, or high-capacity memory card drive that could be left in the keyboard at all times. Additionally, the ability to display lyrics and play mp3s would also be a nice feature. Yes, I know much of this is available in the T3, however, the T3 weighs significantly more, it's a bit bulky, and nearly everyone I know has encountered both software and hardware problems--which is not what a working entertainer needs to encounter, particularly while on the job.

From my perspective, the PSR-3000 has been a workhorse that has never let me down. It has performed flawlessly during thousands of jobs. The way things are going, I guess I'll be sticking with them, maybe for as long as Fran owned the G-1000.

Good topic Chas,

Gary

I'm in the camp where if something goes down, I have a very close back up to use in its place. My gigging kb is a T2, my back up is a T1. I can use either for anything I do performance wise.

I'm very, very pleased with the T2 and keep finding new ways to get more out of it. I honestly haven't even considered looking into a new kb for sometime. I did check out the t3, but the new sounds/styles/etc. weren't enough to justify the purchase.



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Bill in Dayton

Playing in the same place almost every night, I am constantly trying to stay "fresh".
It's not hard to do with some work, but one of the things I look for are easy ways to audition styles, even on the job (slow nights).
I love the Rolands, but so far the styles must be loaded into one folder. Then you must search for the new ones and try them, then delete the ones that don't suit.
Yamaha's S900 and up allows you to read directly from an external card, as does the Ketron Audya.
I suppose ease of operation is a paramount factor for me in considering a change.
I would already have purchased a Roland E-80 if it weren't for this factor and the glaring break/fill issue.
Still waiting for my Audya to be replaced by one from the latest batch, as soon as they arrive. Meanwhile the E50 continues to please and even amaze me.
DonM

I think everyone buys an arranger for his own reasons...

I as a currently not performing musician (I play music as a stressreleave from a stressfull dayjob) buy a new instrument as a new tool to toy around with and to explore my limits with that tool....

I will never reach an instruments limits, but playing on a new tool makes things feel fresh and challenges me to do different and new things.


And so everyone has its own reasons to buy or not to buy a new instrument.

With all current topmodels having top knotch quallity sounds, its features and interesting ways to toy around with music and sounds that make me buy a new instrument.

I think yamaha and Ketron that espescially create instruments to be played straight from the box would not so be my choice.

I prefer the ideas behind Korg, General Music but new ways of creating music like the possibilities of Linontracs (Q-ranger/vst's) but also arpegiators combined with arangers and espescially KARMA are luring me intoo buying new tools.

I am on the verge of discovering new ways to play music and spread my wings beyoud just playing Arranger styles or playing piano style along with midi/audio.

Not being dependent on these instruments for gigging gives me total freedom of switching instruments, but if i was dependent on my instruments for supporting my familly, i'd have a different attitude.
With current soundquallity and possibilities I can't think of a reason to leave great instruments like G70, Tyros2, PA1X for something new.....these instruments sound great in the hands of a capable musician and no one in the audiance will probably hear the difference between a T2 or T3, so why rebuild my whole setups and put tons of money in a new instrument when none notice it?

All i want is to have fun doing so while realising that i will never ever push these great instruments to their limits.

Wow, what great responses. Another classic example of how diverse we are in our thinking and attitudes on this subject. More importantly, the realization that there is no 'right' or 'wrong' approach to the question of why or whether we choose to upgrade. Just an interesting look at the reasons behind our choices.

Taike, glad to see you back on board. Been meaning to email you; just add me to the list of world class procrastinators. Just wanted to know how you were doing and bring you up to date on my dull and boring life ).

Question for DonM. Some on this board go to great lengths to prepare their arrangers for the 'gig'. Custom registrations for nearly every song on the songlist, etc. Makes using different boards (especially from different manufacturers) seem like a very daunting task. Just knowing which styles are suitable for specific songs (between boards) would be beyond my learning/retention abilities. How do you manage this (I think I remember instances where you say that you have taken brand new, unfamiliar boards to a gig the same day you got it). You must have several commendations for bravery .

chas

Until recently, only 25% of my jobs were arranger ones. Most of those are in restaurants where the volume is low and the tunes are not too busy. Even though I have an unplayed SD-5 and a bunch of other stuff, the MS-60's I have used for years (over 10 years; at least 4 nights per week)suit the task(S) perfectly.
Sometimes I use the little NP-30 or a controller and old Yamaha tone generator on top, but that's about it. That set-up does the job.

Everything else is a combination of a C-1 or XK-1 with an electric piano of some kind, with at least a drummer, and that's a completely different animal.

The SD-5 is a pretty neat keyboard. So is the Midjay I got from DonM. I hope I get comfortable enough to use them before they just fall apart from old age.

George sold me a GW-7 a few years back that has been turned on once to make sure it works. That has been obsoleted by the GW-8 upgrade. He also sold me a SH-201, which would work for my group gigs, but not in the restaurnats, which is all I can do right now, until I heal up a little more. It has been used on one job and turned on two or three other times.

Right now, I'm glad I have arrangers, but most of the time (when I heal up), I'd prefer not to use them. They have a place in the arsenal, but are not my "go to" instruments if I have other options.


Russ

Chas,
I have taken new boards to the job very quickly, but they were always operating systems with which I was very familiar.
For example, Yamaha still is using many of the same styles they were using 7 or 8 years ago, and the same OS as well. Even the vocal processing and harmonizer have not changed, and although they have added new sounds, the old ones are still there if you need them.
I merely take the time to set up some basic registrations, such as slow 6/8, 4/4, shuffle, R n' Roll, Country Rock-shuffle-waltz-2/4, a Bequine or Rhumba, and a Jazz swing.
With these I can easily and quickly get to a setup for most any song. Also in the registration, I set my favorite guitar, sax, organ and piano sounds.
First time I ever bought a Ketron (X1), on the advice of Uncle Dave, it came in about 3:00 p.m. and I had a job at 7. I talked to Dave on the phone and he said I wouldn't have any problem using it that night.
WRONG! It took me 3-5 minutes between songs. I was completely ignorant of the OS.
By the end of the night, it was better, but I was a total wreck. I did have my other kb in the van, but I was determined to make it through. It was a small friendly crowd, thank God.
Also, I would never take an unfamiliar board without having my old one handy for a backup.
It took me two weeks to get confident enough to take the Audya out. It will take me many months of exploration to start to realize all its capabilities. That is, when I get the replacement in.
DonM