Enjoy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmkH-9SN8mg&NR=1

Eric

Yes, inDEED!

Now, that is accuracy.

Thanks for posting that.

--Mac

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIp9XQmh5gI&feature=related

Peter Baartmans is of course the greatest exponent of the electronic keyboard and will NEVER be bettered.....that is a fact and nobody can deny that....

so just have a look at the above link if you have a T3 and want to cry.

The greatest thrill I ever had was meeting and talking to him during his european tour to demonstrate the T3.
His pic and his autograph sit proudly on my
board!

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Eddie from Rotherham
Skype:eddiefromrotherham
www.yamahakeyboards.info

PSR9000

He is a very good musician.

But -- "Never say, 'never'!"

--Mac

I'm not sure if he's the "greatest" but he's probably the best I've heard.

To me, his single most impressive attribute is his solo instrument playing. His Clarinet riffs sound like a Clarinet, his trumpet riffs sound like a trumpet, etc.

I've heard lots of arranger users who play all sounds like a piano and that just doesn't work so well.

He also has plenty of chops both technique and taste wise...



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Bill in Dayton

Notreally, but his attention to phrasing helps a lot with the illusion.

I've said it before, I'll say it again ... "Damn, I wish I had studied piano!!!" ...

Of course, there's no telling if the TALENT would have been there ...
t.

Well, Mac...I've worked with Trumpet players and Clarinet players for a long time, and IMO...for what's it worth, his Clarinet riffs are modeled after Clarinet, same with his trumpet licks, and so on.

Not sure what your point whas, but let's agree he's very skilled with that instrument, ok?



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Bill in Dayton

Well, Bill, I've played trumpet as well as keyboards and guitar for several decades anwyay and my little brother is the reed player.

There are certain giveaways in note choice and such, as well as articulation artifacts, plus the dead giveaway for any trumpet player, the dead on intonation of digital samples. For example, the D above Middle C on the Bb Trumpet (Concert E) has a distinct sound of its own when pulled into tune with the tempered scale, because the design of the Trumpet dictates that situation. There are other well known quirks and anomalies inherent to the Trumpet, as well as with Clarinets and Saxes also.

A skilled Trumpet player can hear these things.

Articulation wise, digital sampling can't slur notes the same at all.



[This message has been edited by --Mac (edited 08-28-2009).]

Mac-Rarely have I found an audience full of trumpet players at my gigs, lol...

My point of reference was in thinking how some users play a trumpet or clari sound in the same way as they play their piano patches. For most listeners...most...they'd find his styling across the variety of the solo instruments pretty impressive.

Another example: I use a nylon string acoustic as my lead instrument on Amazing Grace. Now, this is an amazingly popular Hymn and is always very, very received. Once...just once...I can recall a guy coming up to me afterwards and saying he didn't care for the guitar sound. He admitted to me he was an acoustic player...



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Bill in Dayton

Would this solve the tuning problem http://www.hermode.com/index_en.html as it seems to do what you mention.

Most of our arrangers already have a page for making non-equal temperment tunings for acoustic instruments (or synths!)... Although this thing looks cool as it will adjust the intonation dynamically depending on what you play...

Very cool...

The thing for me is, having done this for years in real bands, the only way to get a really authentic performance out of many solo acoustic sounds is to sit and ride that darn pitch bend/mod wheel pretty much constantly to get bends, intonation adjustments, hand crafted vibrato, whatever you need to sound dead on. Of course, this means no LH to spare, hence this is difficult when you are in arranger mode...

Hence my yearning for the Chord sequencer, so I don't HAVE to go SMF if I want to ride the old waggle stick...

What happens with the modern Bb Trumpet is not related to another temperament.

Many of the notes will be in tune with the Tempered Scale.

However, a few particular notes will not, due to the nature of the instrument's design. A good player uses a trained ear to move those notes to their proper place, for example, Classical players will often use 1st or 3rd valve slide to compensate, while Jazz players will use their embouchure, their facial muscles and air pressure, to do the same.

At any rate, it creates a beauty to the instrument, a color, if you will, that is lacking in any sampler/synth situation.

But there's more, a lot more.

Slurring with fixed samples that have a set number (usually one) of ADSR's available. This is another dead giveaway, I don't care how fast you play the keyboard or how you try to play with a style that overlaps the notes into a blur, it has a completely different sound than the real wind instrument player achieves by simply holding the column of air while fingering through the desired notes.

Yes, it is indeed true that the art of MIDI illusion -- and it is nothing more than trying to create an illusion of the real thing -- is subjective. As I've often typed around the internet, MIDI Patches sound great to those who don't play the particular instrument but not so great to those who actually play that instrument. I think Guitar Players are the most prolific complainers about MIDI Patches and Guitar sounds and that one in particular is understood by the largest sampling out of the group, even horn players and pisnists don't particularly fall in love with most of the MIDI Guitar patches out there for this reason. Much of it is in the same situation as for the horns, articulation giveaways abound. No Hammer-On or Pulloff ability translates to the same sort of problem as the wind instrument slurring and tonguing choices.

This is not to knock MIDI performance. I do it almost every day on keyboards.

There is even something to be said for working hard to pull the illusion off better than the next guy, certainly.


--Mac


--Mac

There are at least 15 guys that want to pounce all over that, but are too afraid of the censors .

chas

Of course you can never fool a professional trumpet or clarinet player into thinking it's a real brass or wind instrument.

The point is that Mr. Baartman comes close. He can fool the average listener. The sound he plays is pleasing to the ear regardless of its authenticity. Furthermore, you can create cool string, wind, brass, and other sounds on a keyboard that you can't get on your native instrument - just like vice versa.

Yamaha's purpose in this video is to sell the T3 implying that you can do this too. Can a decent player do something close as far as sound emulation? The answer imo is yes. The S.A. 2 voices apparently have superior ability to articulate the ideosyncracies of the instrument it's portraying without having to keep your left hand constantly on the pitch bend and modulation wheel.

Very cool indeed.

Beakybird