Has anyone heard or seen a good quality Liontacs demo that you can hear properly with good quality sound, I can't find any, also someone playing a good old tune or don't Liontracs players do that short of stuff, just boom boom boom!!!

Regards

[This message has been edited by Tony Hughes (edited 09-12-2009).]

here aso some available: http://www.lionstracs.com/store/information_pages.php?info_id=39
Almost are made by the Giga sounds library included on MS.

For the all remain stuff, like VST/ASIO, I don't like to much advertising other software company to prove the MS quality audio outs.
You there already know the quality of this all Plugins-Host. http://www.lionstracs.com/store/information_pages.php?info_id=24

LIONSTRACS.

Thats just what I meant, does anoyone play the LIONTRACS KB like the Audya on Youtube someone actually sat at the KB good sound quality playing things like, "MY WAY" and all that sort of stuff. Someone swinging it!!!

Regards

No there aren't

And untill the day that happens Lionstracs will be considered a 2nd grade brand by many despite the technological feautures and possiblities of the mediastation , which is a shame...


I can only advise Don to have a look at the openlabs website to see how a small company can use the internet to actually hype their instruments in a proper way.

Or just get a good demo player that makes high quallity music on it and posts them on Youtube like Ketron does...


The lack of Good demo's played by a top demonstrator currently is Lionstracs bane... they deserve better as technically the instrument has everything a composer/musician/performer could dream of.

For them to have a good demonstration, they would actually have to have good styles and sounds OOTB. Every other arranger demo from any factory merely shows how good the thing sounds when YOU get it.

Korg do not demonstrate the PA2X using third party loops and styles, Yamaha do not load up the sampler with audio loops to sell the T3.

I'm afraid that, were there to be a REAL 'factory demo' even using a decent player, all it would likely show is just how much MORE you are going to have to do to it, just to get it to sound as good as a 'closed' arranger...

Were I Dom, to be honest, I'd leave things the way they are, and let those with more 'dreams' than a sense of reality continue to purchase the MS, and find out the expensive way how hard this thing is to use

Me, I'd probably just suggest to anyone thinking about it that, if they haven't ALREADY created a bunch of REALLY good styles for whatever arranger they currently have, what are the odds that they are suddenly going to be able to do it with an MS?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bachus:
[b] No there aren't

And untill the day that happens Lionstracs will be considered a 2nd grade brand by many despite the technological feautures and possiblities of the mediastation , which is a shame...

Where do they go from here, are they selling any units.

Regards



[This message has been edited by Tony Hughes (edited 09-13-2009).]

I imagine they are doing pretty well in the dance/DJ modern electronica field. Seems like it was BUILT for them...

Don't think it is setting the arranger users' world on fire, though.

I disagree on NOT Demoing with standard styles, Lionstracs SHOULD Demo with their non standard styles ,its currently more a music production workstation which involves creating things yourself.

So they should demo it with music created by top musicians to show how good it can sound and what can be done with it (Have a peek at Open labs demo's)

Tough if they want a shot at the Home arranger market they should load it up with top quallity styles for all purposes and show them to the people, next to that they should demo yamaha styles (through live styler) that sound nearly as good as the styles sound on T3.

But they don't do neither of this and so they will be a niche product (which is okay since all Media stations are hand build)

Somehow they seem to be doing okay since i get the feeling that all units they produce are being sold.

[This message has been edited by Bachus (edited 09-13-2009).]

As everybody keeps pointing out and demonstrating, what percentage of arranger users are NOT 'home' players, or professional players that play the same kind of music (basically, non-electronica, acoustic music of a generally 'classic' nature )...?

Precious few.

I just don't understand why Dom keeps missing this basic fact. It's not as if the MS COULDN'T be a great arranger (in the sense that most of us here understand an arranger to be), but it would take the development of a ROM style and sound selection better than they have chosen (and a few well placed OS improvements). This having been addressed, the MS would be a major contender. Ketron, at least, understand that, although you can have at least PARTS of their OS 'open' (the live loops), you can't HOPE to make it in the marketplace without a great library of ROM styles. I mean, what would persuade ANYONE to buy an Audya if all they did was enable the audio drums feature, but left it to YOU to provide all the loops? But they, at least, are not that dumb! They make a cracking library for it, and it is a very popular (if expensive) keyboard.

How come Dom never gets this? Why sell to a tiny handful of either VERY dedicated dance music producer/techheads, and a few more gullible dreamers that don't equate really poor demos with a really poor playing experience, and think that voicing and styling a hi-tech arranger is going to be a piece of cake (best of luck! )..?

When you COULD sell to the entire market by the simple (comparatively, compared to designing and building the thing) addition of high quality OOTB content. That's all Ketron have done. Doesn't Dom WANT to sell a boatload of MS's?

I think most of the home players that own an arranger don't want to pay this much money..

What percentage of the home players has a $3000 and up arranger keyboard ?

I think Yamaha is a good excample to mostly use the T3 as a good tool to sell its cheeper models. (T3 technollogy inside)

Porblem is that currently mediastations demo's aren't aiming at anyone at all. Not at home users and not at professional musicians that need a vst workstation.

But then, i think mediastation is still selling all units they produce (by hand) so why should they advertise if they can't produce any more units then they currently sell ?

Well thats what I thought - that's why are started the thread I thought KETRON was bad enough - but LIONSTRACS, I don't see the point of it - no doubt someone will fill us in on why they progress this way, seems a heavy duty machine to do nothing only play styles.

Regards All

You make me just laugh...
One week more and then you can start to see online on my webstore the first 3-4 new products..
Then soon the remain another totally NEW 4 low cost keyboards stage and 2 Rack..

Bachus.. you continue make comparation with OL and continue posting on OL forum too...but why you will not buy it??

Maybe are you worried that you are NOT able to running one arranger software like Livestyler and then NOT able to play the all other sounds VST?
( remember that Livestyler is one HOST, when is running then you can NOT run some others application)
OR maybe there are missing the all Arranger keys/patterns feedback hardware features?

IF the OL can make ALL, JUST ask for a Live demo: running the Livestyler and then play the all others sounds with Forte or what they like...I really want to see too what they can make under Live stage.

Who know that maybe I will not also develope a totally new keyboard with windows OS or OSX?

For me one Keyboard like the OL seem to much stupid, because NO native software, just PC parts assembled in one case..

Just take one simple USB midi controller keyboard, one Laptop and just some more Korg Nano controller = Neko XXL and all cost LESS than 1000 USD.

Just look the last Pro tools advertising that they made...running protools with the external audio rack device? Have this sense?
You mean that with one standard PC, one 150 USD touch screen and Korg Nano you can NOT running pro Tools or Reaper?

For this all standard PC features assembly in one case, make really NO sense.
This NOT mean that i'm not able for editing some my new case to put a normally Windows or OSX version.. we will see.

[This message has been edited by LIONSTRACS (edited 09-14-2009).]

When I was a kid, MANY years ago, and someone was bragging about something, he was told, "Put up or shut up".
I also would like to hear the ARRANGER capabilities of Liontracks keyboard.
After all this time, it seems that if someone were using it for an arranger, we would have heard or seen it.
DonM

This is the OL solution: http://www.novationmusic.com/products/midi_controller/remote_sl


Then add some of this: http://www.korgnano.com/

One PC with 15" touchscreen fixed over the Remote SL = Neko XXL+++
If you are not able to install windows, reaper and some Vst..then better that you buy the OL.
Have SENSE with this all AVAILABLE PC hardware/software to develope a new PC windows/OSX case??
For that seem to me so stupid and lose a lot of money for nothing..all is already available.

[This message has been edited by LIONSTRACS (edited 09-14-2009).]

Currently you are very close to the truth... And thats exactly what i am using at my home (Okay i use a roland Midikeyboard and a korg padKontrol)

But when they add KARMA to the Neko, it will be a true instrument. And the Dbeat (module) is just as expensive as a Macbook pro...

Or maybe the Neko of the future does not only have an open software architecture, but also have an open hardware structure, where you can choose the controllers that you want, instead of the controllers as they where lay out by the developers.



As allways i am following your new products with interest, I am a fan of the way openly talk about your products, and the technical innovation in them, you are probably the pioneer in the development of tomorrows arranger keyboard/workstation



Lets just say i am very interested in all these technologies, but currently not yet willing to pay that much money while not being totally certain if it will fill my needs.



No Dom, my main concern is running intoo the same problems as i currently do with my software set-up. There is no community and there is nothing that works out of the box, while i don't mind (i love it) tweaking stuff till perfection. I do miss those moments of getting a style from a friend and loving it straight away. Or just selecting that perfect factory style, to play the number i just heared on the tube..



I don't think the OL can do it all, but the stuff they show just looks and sounds so much better then you or your German demonstrator playing on the Media station.

I personally think you are a class A technician and a Class A programmer and you are making a Class A product. But there are much better musicians on this world then you or me.

You allready have someone assisting you with making sounds and samples for your product. Maybe you should also get someone to program styles for your product... Just 200 class A styles and a few (free) new ones every week would make a huge difference if you really want to be a player on the keyboard Market.

And then you'd need a demonstrator like Michel voncken just to make some youtube video's (With sound recorded directly from mediastations digital or analog out)

Don't get me wrong, i am possibly one of the greatest fans of your work as a technician... But in an arranger you don't need only the program, you also need the data...

What good is the best HD televivion in the world if you keep watching analogue black an white laurel and hardy VHS tapes on it ?

I think this perfectly describes my feeling about the Mediastation.



Please don't, Linux is the ultimate OS to use as an embedded product on your keyboards...

I am a big Linux fan and a SOLARIS system administrator myself and i know that there is absolutley no reason to use anything else then Linux, espescially with the improvement of Wine and other products like it.



I agree with you on this one, i don't understand why they would ever use pro tools if Reaper comes natively with the Neko...Its just to much for me..

But if you look at the total package of their video's (espescially the stephen kay one) they give people inspiration.

I really understand that you want to invest most of your budget intoo developing as good an instrument as possible, but to make really good salesnumbers you will need a professionall to make some Class A styles and performances and then demonstrate it on the Ultimate advertisement space (youtube) everyone will see it and its for free...

I just hope you make some good salesnumbers and will be able to keep on developing because there is some really great stuff inside the mediastation.. which is lightyears ahead of systems like the Audya

The same people buying arrangers were buying home organs twenty, thirty years ago. They seemed to have little problem raising the cash. And just because few people buy Lamborghini's doesn't stop the market from being vibrant and lucrative...

And, no offense, but I think VERY few people looking at a mid or low priced Yamaha arranger are even aware of the T3, let alone research it carefully and use its' capabilities as a guide for the BOTL!

Bottom line STILL remains, while many TALK glowingly about the 'future', and all its' 'potential', precious few ever achieve this potential. If I had a dollar for every 'but I'm not that good a player' excuse, while players of MUCH lesser caliber are making very nice sounding music on their poor, pathetic, out of date 'closed' arrangers...

It's all about the music you make, NOT the tool you make it with. The only thing these 'open' arrangers manage is to completely stifle their users, if the dearth of example is anything to go by...

Comparing Mediastation to OL? Gotta be kidding me.

"Open ARRANGERS' Nedim... OL still don't count as one of those, do they?

Depends on what the end user installs I guess. An OL product will run any Windows Application you install on it, so while it's not marketed to the Arranger users, there's nothing stopping anyone technically minded from turning it into a arranger workstation.

DIKI, i know that, i am just saying, anyone comparing OL to MS gotta be crazy.
The OL is the future of the Live and Studio Play and yes, its an arranger. Its is
everything, not just an arranger, it can be an arranger, workstation, studio,
net browser, video games station, porn source and anything else. Only if you
know how to use it. Lots better then your G70, my PA2X and the rest.
Its the future, probably for all of us.



[This message has been edited by Nedim (edited 09-15-2009).]

+1

Well said Nedim.

It would be interesting, playing live while at the same time being connected to MYFREECAMS.COM.
And having a lady dancing in front of you, very distracting...or playing CALL OF DUTY.
Diki, dont tell me you'll never click on any of those cameras...shame on you.

[This message has been edited by Nedim (edited 09-15-2009).]

Same goes for Mediastation tough...

Its everything in one box....

And they both have the same soundsource...

No, in reality is waayyyyy different, the ONLY true open system is OL, not some ubuntuburuntu.
We might say this is down to opinion but i dont think it is, they are not the same, hell no.
And yes, i have spent few hours with each machine, i can see what they can deliver.

[This message has been edited by Nedim (edited 09-15-2009).]

Just a pity it does not come in a 76 note version

Well, maybe you are right with this statement as i allready agreed that OL has both open hardware as software...

But...

Most people overhere don't want a true open system in the end, they want a base system with unlimited expansion options, but they want a basic arranger system that comes with a lot of great styles incorporated..

And thst something that neither of these two systems can currently offer to an arranger player.....

I still find it illuminating that those that are the MOST pro-'open' keyboards, especially arrangers, are those the least willing to show us how well they succeed at making MUSIC on them.

You see, unlike you, Nedim, MOST people buy an arranger to PLAY, not 'program'. If I want to geek my head off, I go and mess with my K2500, or my Triton, or any of my VSTi's.

Then I go and gig on my G70...

The problem is not the hardware, it's the arranger software.

Having arranger software that only offers the functions of an arranger is only part of what is needed for the concept to work. It must also have a compatible sound engine that works well in playing back styles in the format the software supports.

For you to sucessfully get Live Styler to play back a Yamaha Tyros 3 style, you would need access to the Tyros sound engine. Because you don't have this, a software arranger will always require work in getting it to sound great.

Hi Bachus,
I had a similar sort of problem with my software arranger setup.
Nothing elaborate , only soundfonts/One Man Band software.
I enjoyed the time I spent tweaking / creating styles etc, but unfortunately the stuff I created, I couldn't really share, no one else really used the same soundsource, so what's the point of sharing , if they'd have to tweak the stuff to suit their own setup.

For me it was just a way of having a very inexpensive Yammie arranger & something new to try.

best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bachus:
[B] No Dom, my main concern is running intoo the same problems as i currently do with my software set-up. There is no community and there is nothing that works out of the box, while i don't mind (i love it) tweaking stuff till perfection. I do miss those moments of getting a style from a friend and loving it straight away. Or just selecting that perfect factory style, to play the number i just heared on the tube..


quote:

Both of you are right and i completely agree but another problem:
Both companies are small and are not willing to pay programmers for styles.
I personally programmed for devellopers and right now i wont even think
programming one style for less then 450-500$ for a develloper. Can you
imagine how much would that cost them? Dom once offered me (which i
appreciate IT) to program for him 50 styles for one free full MS but at the
same time i took it as desrespectfull to me. To program one style i need
at least a day and over, most of the times 2. I live in NYC and he wants me
to work for 30$ a day? And listen to this, not to pay me ahead, to give me
the MS, i had to pay for it ahead of time 1700EU then after the creation of
styles they will buy it from me for the same 1700EU. I even had to pay ahead.
And you expect a synth loaded with styles? I would do for Dom, not just me,
but many would. My offer stands, he gets from me 6 styles with intros, endings,
fills and variations, only six, nothing more and i get a free full MS. Then after
that we talk for more styles. But for 30$ a day? I'd rather collect berr cans.
Thats why those machines dont have styles. Programming styles costs a lot,
there is many of us that do work for devellopers but for the big heads, not even
for Ketron, even they are small for that kind of work but they do have a lot of
styles. Can you imagine how much would cost coming up with 100 brand new
styles for MS or NEKO? At least 40 grant, at least, even if its 35 still a lot.
Thats the reason they dont even mention that. Do you see Dom ever answer
why he doesnt have styles? Its always the same reason: we leave it to the
customer, convert from Yamaha, they wont tell you the truth.
Its simple...its all about the Benjamins...

I am afraid it is going to take one of the major players to FINALLY give us the 'open' arranger that starts out as a TOTL arranger, and then offers VSTi expansion past that point. And, when they do, they will make a boatload of money, and Dom will be sitting around in his closed down factory, wondering what in the hell hit him. But I doubt his ego will allow him to admit to himself that he WAS told what we wanted, he was just too cheapass to provide it.

All we ever get is scorn from him that we are so stupid as to need a decent arranger as a starting point for our own efforts. Mind you, so far, he hasn't managed to achieve the vaunted 'potential' himself yet... If you have no respect for what your customers actually WANT, and keep dishing up your own vision, no matter how definitively proved it is that no-one can use it well, you deserve to go under. It's what he expects his competition to do all the time, for being so 'closed', but it is them constantly proving to him how wrong HE has got it...

I know its expensive... but they have to invest intoo good styles to have access to the arranger market...

OL tough has invested intoo Karma which will come with great scenes and make the OL intoo a true instrument for live use...

Maybe lionstracs can make contracts that pay you $1 per style, for every mediastation sold with your style on it... and invest in teh style programmers to give them a free Mediastation whenever you have created 10 styles (which become the property of linostracs) This way they would need 5 top notch style programmers for the first 50 styles, and put in teh contract that these style programmers need to create at least 30 more styles for media station in the next 6 months... which would be payed for by the previously mentioned methode...

Lionstracs should then add those 200 styles to the mediastation as standard and start selling more styles sepperately for $2 as downloads, that way both Lionstracs and the programmers make more money.

They could also make the mediastation with the 200 style pack 200 dollars more expensive...

I think that someone willing to pay 3200 dollars for an instrument will also pay 3400 if he can actually put it to use...

Next to that you could even use your own gigasamples for the styles and simply add them to the Mediastation library.. SO with the open system everyone will get hapy in the end, but people like Nedim should be willing to help (I know he can make some very awesome styles)and since quallity does not come for free, they should be rewarded for it.



[This message has been edited by Bachus (edited 09-16-2009).]

Karma won't turn anything into an arranger...

It has certainly failed to make the M3 or the original Karma into anything you could take to a gig and perform much acoustic music.

If all you are doing is electronica, well, the market is FULL of different things that excel at doing that, software and hardware alike. But the minute you throw in the need to perform anything played by REAL PEOPLE, your options for a live music tool shrink drastically.

It is one thing to speed up or down, or transpose up or down an arpeggio (that's all you basically have to do!), but the rules for say a guitar part, or piano part doing the same thing are TOTALLY different. Different chords need different shapes, different speeds need VERY different performances, going from one chord to another involve another set of rules. All of these things are beyond the simplistic rules of Karma.

Yes, yes, I know all about the Karma's ability to induce random and non-linear behavior, but it is STILL all about the arpeggio or rhythm pattern, and not based on fundamental rules that apply to REAL musicians. Until Karma provides a set of tools adequately describing the behavior of acoustic, living breathing musicians, all it is is a fancy way to produce electronica...

I agree...

Because i said that Karma will turn a Neko intoo a reall instrument with a heart and a soul...But that instrument is not an arranger.

KARMA can be used in live music, KARMA can be used in MUSIC production, buit the real strong point of KARMA is that it is supposed to give people inspiration and new ideas.

I will show you pretty soon what KARMA can do, just wait, on video...and not just turning up
and down arpegios but music...and no, i am not claiming that is an arranger, its an instrument.

Hi Diki.



Not exactly. It's not all about that because it's ability to produce notes is only part of what it can do. When people using KARMA talk about rhythm patterns they are not necessarily talking about an actual rhythm pattern of notes. It can control any CC# value and much more.

For example you could apply a KARMA GE to a Guitar so that when you play a few notes, it will produce a picking effect. If you then remove your hand or stop playing new notes, KARMA will start to slow down and fade in a manner a real guitarist would do when playing with feeling.

Or if you wanted a Pad sound, you play a chord and the actual sound would morph into all manner of wonderful soundscapes.

Electronic music is not the focus of KARMA either. It works just as well on all manner of orchestral sounds and more.

Regards
James

It does on Acoustics certain things that PA2X can only DREAM...yes, arranger things.

Here's 4 quick little demo's I threw together to show a different side of KARMA. This is the sort of thing I use it for all the time.
http://www.irishacts.com/misc/file1.mp3
File 1.
I play 4 notes at the start to let you hear what the sound is like when KARMA is turned off, and then I play the exact same 4 notes again with KARMA turned on.

http://www.irishacts.com/misc/file2.mp3
File 2.
I'm plying a Ohh Voice sound and KARMA is playing everything else based on play I play in this one, including the drums.

http://www.irishacts.com/misc/file3.mp3
File 3.
This one will sound much more like an arranger. KARMA is generating everything live and I'm just playing 2 chords on the left hand. I even change to a different variation in this mp3 just to show that it can function much like an arranger too. If you listen to things like the drums you will notice that they are not on a locked down pattern. There is a certain amount of randomness about it just like a read drummer would do.
http://www.irishacts.com/misc/file4.mp3
File 4.
The Piano in this one is me playing, everything else KARMA is generating in real-time live in order to play along with me.

Regards
James

James, is there any way in hell to convert CitadelInSpace for M3? I know i can do it
but i dont have an oasys to do that.

i would still take an arranger over the karma. sorry

Thanks James, very enlightening clips.

Can you say how long it took to set up those Karma sections? In particular #3?

Its the randomness of Karma that is attracting me to move away from my PA2xpro and go to the M3 73 instead.

Dennis

It should be possible just by copying the settings from the OASYS into the M3, but it could be a lot of work. I'll have a look and see.

Nothing wrong with arrangers if all your looking for are Styles.

KARMA is an entirely different animal.

Hi Dennis.

I spent only seconds setting up all 4 so I could record them. The 3rd one is actually a factory preset straight off the M3. Not sure I'd dump the PA2X for Karma though if Arranger functions are what you use most. It's just easier to use an arranger for arranger functions rather than to use KARMA.

Regards
James

Thats just it James, I use the PA2x AS an arranger for about 10-15% of what I do.

Others have said I have this "passion" for arrangers, but is not for arrangers per se, more for the total integration of functionality.

I am really over the "sameness" of style patterns. Even if a style is tweaked as a few of mine are, it is still the same pattern everytime you play it...I rarely if ever, use more than two variations on any song that I use the arranger for.

For example, and I really do not like talking about myself much, but in all my playing career, I doubt I have EVER either played a song the exact same way, or played the same solo twice.

Songs are in the same format as in the layout, but my playing is always different.

In fact I have just given up a trad 50/60's R+R dance band because it was too strict. I was not even allowed to use an organ, ONLY piano. Because the band leader reckoned there were no organs in 50's rock+ roll dance tunes...whether thats true or not I didn't really care, but for me they went into the same category as playing for old time dances. I won't do those anymore either LOL.

I probably really should not even be on an arranger forum as I play it so little in that format.

Cool to know the setups can be that quick and simple...

Dennis

Then you need KARMA, not an arranger.

Yes I tend to think so Nedim, its the other operational functions of the PA2 that I would miss most of all.

I am still, weighing up between the new S70 XS, and or the M3 73...

But how about an Arranger with Karma

Abacus, Open Labs are way WAY too expensive imho, and ONLY a max of a 61 note keyboard..

Those two points aside the OL with Karma would be teriffic.

That's interesting because if you selected a COMBI sound on the M3 and asked two people to play the same tune, simply because they will both play it slightly differently means KARMA will also play differently.

Sometimes I wonder if KORG are unaware of the potential they have because a Pa2X with KARMA would pretty much destroy the competition to a level that would make comparing anything else to it purely laughable.

The KARMA Software also has the ability to convert Midi Data into a GE, so it's technically possible to convert the styles of the Pa2X into GE's that would run on the M3. It's something I've always thought about doing on my OASYS but never got around to it because Karma suites me as it stands. I'm not into styles at all anymore.

James

[This message has been edited by Irishacts (edited 09-18-2009).]

Since the title of this thread is Lionstracs, does anyone know what Dom has been working away on. I see talk of a number of devices but no real indication as to what they are.

I hope for his sake that he is taking on the workstation and V-Machine / Receptor world.

James

there new products coming like:

-a MS with 61 keys
-one rack module with GIGA sounds
keyboards with linuxsampler and GIGA sounds only in 76 and 86 keys.
-one rack module like V-Machine for running VST and GIGA sounds(this was my suggestion but domenico had plans for to)
and.....


i have seen some photo's and layers

[This message has been edited by AFG Music (edited 09-18-2009).]

Just pickup the 4 GROOVE model cases..
Now have to paint and graphics...then i'm ready to display and sell it.

For the Stages pianos, Vasio synth and Rack need a couple of weeks...
tested also the new Atom Dualcore, with the Sata300 can play really easy more than 250 stereo voice!
Bosendorfer 290 ( 1680Mb ) under Persistent mode, ready to play in 0.5 sec...NOT bad at all. of course with the possibility to load how many giga sounds library that you like.
Not sure BUT I think can be hard time for Clavia and Korg with the Stages pianos..

Do not tell me that they can compete with the Giga Library....like the Vienna or Garritan..

Anyway, coming out with about 10 new products is really NOT easy ( 10 NOT one... )

My gradnpa always used to say:
A fast female dog always gives birth to blind baby dogs...so, take it easy.

10 new products ? Flipping heck that's a lot to take on at the same time.
I look forward to see what you have been cooking up. So far it sounds very interesting.

James

The best one that I like more is the new Vasio Synth, 49 keys, Black and RED, really COMPACT: 69X34X10 CM!!
Someone there already saw the pictures..
I will try to sell for only 990 Euro.. end user price..

lol... now your just teasing me.
That sounds really exciting.

Can you post an image ? I'd really love to see that.

James.

I will post the images only when I have full assembled...
Patience.... ( I had a lot too...)

Sorry, I thought you had a photo of one finished when you mentioned someone else already saw it. No worries, I can wait.

Well, that MIGHT account for why you get tired of the repetition!

There's nothing to stop you copying one of the variations that you DO use, and make some small changes to it...

You can't really blame the arranger for sounding the same all the time if you only use 1/2 of the patterns. Oh, and less we forget, you are using an arranger with only two fills (and a break fill) where many of us are using arrangers with six or seven. Do you use the velocity to style feature? You can get some nice subtle variation out of vel-switched kits and sounds with that. Multipads can add a LOT of variation to a sound. The sampler, used with these, can extend your palette almost indefinitely. Trigger loops, sparse patterns with extra drum notes, anything you want.

And, I don't know if you ever tried the Cover Tools much on the Roland's, but here is a one button complete re-orchestration of the entire style...

Arrangers provide diversity if you MAKE them provide it. And limit what they do to the absolute minimum you HAVE to have, and the rest is up to your playing! That can be as different as you want to make it!