I am afraid it is going to take one of the major players to FINALLY give us the 'open' arranger that starts out as a TOTL arranger, and then offers VSTi expansion past that point. And, when they do, they will make a boatload of money, and Dom will be sitting around in his closed down factory, wondering what in the hell hit him. But I doubt his ego will allow him to admit to himself that he WAS told what we wanted, he was just too cheapass to provide it.

All we ever get is scorn from him that we are so stupid as to need a decent arranger as a starting point for our own efforts. Mind you, so far, he hasn't managed to achieve the vaunted 'potential' himself yet... If you have no respect for what your customers actually WANT, and keep dishing up your own vision, no matter how definitively proved it is that no-one can use it well, you deserve to go under. It's what he expects his competition to do all the time, for being so 'closed', but it is them constantly proving to him how wrong HE has got it...

I know its expensive... but they have to invest intoo good styles to have access to the arranger market...

OL tough has invested intoo Karma which will come with great scenes and make the OL intoo a true instrument for live use...

Maybe lionstracs can make contracts that pay you $1 per style, for every mediastation sold with your style on it... and invest in teh style programmers to give them a free Mediastation whenever you have created 10 styles (which become the property of linostracs) This way they would need 5 top notch style programmers for the first 50 styles, and put in teh contract that these style programmers need to create at least 30 more styles for media station in the next 6 months... which would be payed for by the previously mentioned methode...

Lionstracs should then add those 200 styles to the mediastation as standard and start selling more styles sepperately for $2 as downloads, that way both Lionstracs and the programmers make more money.

They could also make the mediastation with the 200 style pack 200 dollars more expensive...

I think that someone willing to pay 3200 dollars for an instrument will also pay 3400 if he can actually put it to use...

Next to that you could even use your own gigasamples for the styles and simply add them to the Mediastation library.. SO with the open system everyone will get hapy in the end, but people like Nedim should be willing to help (I know he can make some very awesome styles)and since quallity does not come for free, they should be rewarded for it.



[This message has been edited by Bachus (edited 09-16-2009).]

Karma won't turn anything into an arranger...

It has certainly failed to make the M3 or the original Karma into anything you could take to a gig and perform much acoustic music.

If all you are doing is electronica, well, the market is FULL of different things that excel at doing that, software and hardware alike. But the minute you throw in the need to perform anything played by REAL PEOPLE, your options for a live music tool shrink drastically.

It is one thing to speed up or down, or transpose up or down an arpeggio (that's all you basically have to do!), but the rules for say a guitar part, or piano part doing the same thing are TOTALLY different. Different chords need different shapes, different speeds need VERY different performances, going from one chord to another involve another set of rules. All of these things are beyond the simplistic rules of Karma.

Yes, yes, I know all about the Karma's ability to induce random and non-linear behavior, but it is STILL all about the arpeggio or rhythm pattern, and not based on fundamental rules that apply to REAL musicians. Until Karma provides a set of tools adequately describing the behavior of acoustic, living breathing musicians, all it is is a fancy way to produce electronica...

I agree...

Because i said that Karma will turn a Neko intoo a reall instrument with a heart and a soul...But that instrument is not an arranger.

KARMA can be used in live music, KARMA can be used in MUSIC production, buit the real strong point of KARMA is that it is supposed to give people inspiration and new ideas.

I will show you pretty soon what KARMA can do, just wait, on video...and not just turning up
and down arpegios but music...and no, i am not claiming that is an arranger, its an instrument.

Hi Diki.



Not exactly. It's not all about that because it's ability to produce notes is only part of what it can do. When people using KARMA talk about rhythm patterns they are not necessarily talking about an actual rhythm pattern of notes. It can control any CC# value and much more.

For example you could apply a KARMA GE to a Guitar so that when you play a few notes, it will produce a picking effect. If you then remove your hand or stop playing new notes, KARMA will start to slow down and fade in a manner a real guitarist would do when playing with feeling.

Or if you wanted a Pad sound, you play a chord and the actual sound would morph into all manner of wonderful soundscapes.

Electronic music is not the focus of KARMA either. It works just as well on all manner of orchestral sounds and more.

Regards
James

It does on Acoustics certain things that PA2X can only DREAM...yes, arranger things.

Here's 4 quick little demo's I threw together to show a different side of KARMA. This is the sort of thing I use it for all the time.
http://www.irishacts.com/misc/file1.mp3
File 1.
I play 4 notes at the start to let you hear what the sound is like when KARMA is turned off, and then I play the exact same 4 notes again with KARMA turned on.

http://www.irishacts.com/misc/file2.mp3
File 2.
I'm plying a Ohh Voice sound and KARMA is playing everything else based on play I play in this one, including the drums.

http://www.irishacts.com/misc/file3.mp3
File 3.
This one will sound much more like an arranger. KARMA is generating everything live and I'm just playing 2 chords on the left hand. I even change to a different variation in this mp3 just to show that it can function much like an arranger too. If you listen to things like the drums you will notice that they are not on a locked down pattern. There is a certain amount of randomness about it just like a read drummer would do.
http://www.irishacts.com/misc/file4.mp3
File 4.
The Piano in this one is me playing, everything else KARMA is generating in real-time live in order to play along with me.

Regards
James

James, is there any way in hell to convert CitadelInSpace for M3? I know i can do it
but i dont have an oasys to do that.

i would still take an arranger over the karma. sorry