You need to look at the bigger picture here of classification that separates the keyboards into the classes they come form.

Just because it carries a the basic function doesn't mean anything. For example my 6 year old daughters keyboard can edit sounds and even record what she plays.

So shall we call that a workstation too ?.

James

No James...it is not that silly.

The Tyros3 is a "workstation", according to the definition you yourself posted.

It may not be your cup of tea, but it is certainly mine, as well as many other professional players...it is exceptionally versatile for both live and studio work.

"Workstations" are too difficult for many players (pros included), hence the addition of arranger and arpeggio features.

IMO arrangers are superior to an Oasys with Karma...try playing a polka or an old fashioned waltz, not to mention most other standard styles.

Yes the Oasys has it's place...I've played one...nice instrument, and you're right, it is no arranger....not even close.

Ahh... then I didn't make my point clear enough.

I meant as in a Synth (not an arranger) that either produces it's sounds by Virtual Technology, or PCM based generation and that has a full blown sequencer.

Not an arranger keyboard that has a very limited on board synth like the Tyros and a basic sequencer with no sampling.

That's why I mentioned that if we stuck to KORG keyboards only it would be quite hard to define a difference between them because KORG Arrangers are just as deep and fully programmable as their workstation.

Neither carry any read only factory preset data, KORG keyboards are all fully programmable unlike Yamaha Arrangers which have small user memories and limited abilities for programming.



Well there you go, your pretty much pointing out another main difference between arrangers and actual workstations yourself.



You don't understand the concept then.

It can certainly do that and far more than an arranger. It just doesn't come form the Factory programmed that way because KARMA only comes on Workstations which are not mean for people who want to play Polka's.

I uploaded this basic example a few days back to show KARMA playing like an arranger keyboard Style but with the added bonus that it's also able to do things an arranger can't like add a certain amount of randomness to the pattern.

For example have a listen to this. http://www.irishacts.com/misc/file3.mp3

There's nothing really locked down to a set pattern like arranger keyboards are. Everything is being generated in real-time and if you listen to the drums for example you will hear them play more naturally just like real drummer will.

That's not me activating fills or doing anything other than playing 2 different chords. Even the main variation change you hear is generated in real-time by KARMA. It's not me changing to a different set of patterns. It's all the same data doing different things in real-time.

Regards
James

Well said, Squeak...one of the best, and the most straight forward, explanations of that dilemma I have read here on the forum.

Of course I understand the concept...it's been discussed here several times.

You obviously did not make your point clear enough in your description of a workstation...it's become a very "general" term...I remember people referring to Yamaha's little Q-series as "workstations", or "walkstations" as they were sometimes affectionately called.

Yamaha's arranger editing seems to work just fine for it's intended user market, which is primarily the home/amateur...most arranger users, including Korg and Roland, do not edit sounds drastically, or build them from scratch.

Most are content to download new sounds from more experienced users...or, they don't use it at all...Squeak's succinct explanation says it all for me.

There are some that want further detailed editing on their arranger...they can buy a Korg.

The Oasys is a fine instrument...I'm glad you are as happy with it, as I am with my arranger.

Hi James
Here are the official designations of Yamaha's keyboards
http://uk.yamaha.com/en/products/musical.../?mode=overview

This was a great demo! Any idea how I can get this style for my PSR-S900?

If you are referring to the style Ethereal Ballad, which was used at the beginning, and at 3:32, will only work on the Tyros3....the conversions I heard were disappointing, at least to my ears.

I have assembled/created a similar style for my S900 called Freestyle, which allows you to play without strict tempo restrictions, as you can with Ethereal Ballad.

I can send it to you, if you email me.

Ian

[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 09-21-2009).]

Thanks Bill...I notice the new PSR-S910 Arranger Workstation has made it's official appearance.

Hi ianmcnll



I didn't get that feeling at all from you based on your comments about styles above. It suggested to me you had no idea that it could operate in an arranger type mode.



If I didn't explain myself clearly enough for you then fair enough. That said, I do not agree with you that the term workstation has become a general classification.

As I said above, walk into any music shop in the world and ask them to see their selection of Workstations and I bet they wont show you a single Arranger Keyboard.



I never said otherwise. Ask yourself two questions.

1: What type of user is the general Arranger user?.
2: What type of user is the Workstation user?.

Now if an Arranger is supposed to be a workstaion, then the answer to the two questions should be the same, no, yes ?.

The fact is that you cannot deny that there is a difference here and that worsktations and arrangers are designed for completely different types of users.

Can you see what angle I'm coming at here to try explain this ? I don't want to argue with you over such a silly subject, but I do need you to see my point so you don't think I'm narrow minded or anything like that.

I have a genuine point here that there is a huge difference between arrangers and workstations in both features and their intended end user audience.

Regards
James