I was thinking about these as an alternative to BOSE compact.

Check out the Fichman SoloAmp here: http://www.fishman.com/products/solo_performance_systems.asp

The bag amp, which has an optional sub: http://www.bagamp.com/products.html


I was thinking that they might sound better than the BOSE, because they have larger drivers, which would fill in some of the
low-mids, high-lows, which I find are lacking on the BOSE, even on the L1.


Anyone have any opinions?

Some link to discussions about the above speakers: http://reviews.harmony-central.com/reviews/Guitar+Amp/product/Fishman/Solo+Amp/10/1 http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=137096&highlight=SoloAmp http://69.41.173.82/forums/showthread.php?t=154706 http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=471514 http://bose.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/778102955/m/3321087835/p/4

Some more links:
http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147233
http://www.backtype.com/url/www.bagamp.com
http://69.41.173.82/forums/showthread.php?t=147233

In the case of the Bose, the speaker driver size has little to do with the low end capability, which is provided by way of acoustic resonance in the long tube.

That's all well and good, Mac, but it doesn't explain the noticeable lack of low mids. Bose are anything BUT flat. That's not necessarily a BAD thing, it's those frequencies that are the hardest to dial in just right in a room. Bose takes them pretty much out of the picture.

There's an interesting comment on the Bag Sub page:

Sometimes the frequency range of the BagAmp is not deep enough, and you need stronger bass response. Keyboards, drums, bass guitar, soundtracks, DJ material, backing tracks can all contain demanding low frequency sound that requires a powerful low bass reproduction system.

I would have though that list pretty much covers EVERYTHING, so it basically means you HAVE to get the sub, too! Unless you are an acoustic guitarist that LIKES having no 'thump' or 'knock' when he needs it

I only know a couple performers that use the Fishman Solo Amp system, and both sold them after a week or use. To my aging ears they tended to sound a bit distorted, particularly at moderately high levels, and they lacked the crisp highs and excellent lows provided by the Bose L1 and L1 Compact.

I personally never seem to have a problem dialing in the mid range sounds with the L1 or L1 Compact, but maybe this has something to do with the venue configurations where I perform. With the standard L1 those frequencies were set with both the Remote and the system presets. With the Compact, however, all settings are made at the keyboard, which took a few days to set up, but now that all the EQs have been saved to system memory slots, they can be instantly recalled and locked in place for the entire performance. If changes are warranted during the performance it's just a couple button pushes to select another set of EQs and the problem's solved.

You'll find a lot of this information on the Bose forum.

Good Luck,

Gary

I'll take the Bose Compact every time if used "within it's limitations" & your gear EQ'd properly for the venue there's no comparison sound & flexibility wise in its class IMO...

Competition is good...

Here is an interesting article from the guy who developed the solo amp and the bag amp. If what he claims is true, maybe the bagamp is much better than the soloamp. Has anyone tried the bagamp?
http://www.aboutjack.com/soloamp.shtml

[This message has been edited by Jick Duck (edited 09-28-2009).]

Using stuff between its' limitations is what it's ALL about.

Thing is, I tend to gear up for the MAXIMUM volume I am expected to do cleanly. Seems many people are prepared to get what they need for their AVERAGE volume.

And I am afraid no 200W PA is ever going to cover what I need.

At its' maximum...

OK
So I tried out the Fishman SoloAmp today, as well as the RCF ART710A and 712A. The RCFs sound very good. The 10 inch has amazing bass for a 10 inch speaker. It has very clear and crisp highs. Over all, I’m very impressed with the art710's sound. It’s also very light at just 25 pounds. The only drawback I found was that is doesn't have any side handles, only one handle on top. That's not so terrible since its only 25 pounds, but a side handle would be good.

The RCF 12 inch ART712A Has bigger and more powerful base than the 10 inch, of course, gut only a little. However, the 12 inch sounded a little more muddy and muffled. I don't know how much it weighs, but I lifted it and it seemed pretty light.

The Fishman SoloAmp has a good sound, but when you turn it up, the sound quality really goes down. I was amazed at the base coming from those small speakers - truly magic! But... the base is uneven. Weighs 25 pounds and seems easy to carry, since it is thin and long. I tried walking around the room to hear sound dispersion. It was fairly even, but it was a pretty small room.

Over all, I think that I would get the 10 inch RCF ART710A. Did anyone compare it to the ART310A?


[This message has been edited by Jick Duck (edited 10-15-2009).]

Dont forget the stands you'll have to carry also.

Jick Duck,

Glad you had the opportunity to try them in person, however, I wish you would have used them in a large room. In the smaller settings the system is not too bad, but the sound quality tends to deteriorate significantly in the larger venues.

Good Luck, and thanks for the update.

Gary

Gary good points this is where the Bose C & L systems excel.

Well, it looks like this Sunday will be my last gig with the L1, B1's. I was holding off selling the big system until I felt comfortable about using 2 compacts with probably a Thumper for larger and outdoor venues. I have a buyer that wanted the L1 and 2 B1's today, he had the cash and wanted to pick up the equipment for use this weekend. But, I have a gig Sunday in a 500+ seat room - 350 expected to attend. I didn't think the 1 compact could fill the room, and I want to get some more info on the Thumper. I'm looking to replace the L1, 2B1's with 2 compacts and a Thumper or something on that order. Gary, Don, Donny et al, do you think that's a comparable exchange? Love the big Bose, but these old bones are talking to me ... the compact(s) make life easier.
Ciao,
Jerry

Jerry,

I'm fairly confident that with a pair of compacts, audiences to 350 would not be a problem. If you added a Thumper, or a powered sub of any kind, in all likelihood you would have more bottom end than you need and loads of headroom.

Good Luck,

Gary

Why does the NUMBER of people have any significance..?

40 young people need a louder volume than 200 senior citizens. If you aren't more specific, it's a basically meaningless stat.

I think the statement is very significant, Gary is trying to say that an audience of 350PP requires a certain size room especially if it's a dinner & dance with tables, dance floor, etc..& that two BC units & possibly a powered sub would be more then enough to handle it. No need to blast them out.....audiences are sick of getting blown out every time they go to an affair. my rule of thumb has always been if YOU the player cannot hear the hum of the audience YOUR TOO LOUD!

But playing background cocktail music and light dancing to 200 ppl is utterly different to playing upfront dance, show and disco music to 200 ppl. The number doesn't matter a damn. The VOLUME does. The age and needs of the audience does. The type of music you play does. The venue does.

But the number of people is immaterial.

There you go again taking out the Crystal Ball.....how would you know by Gary's statement what type of music or venue he plays? Correct volume at ANY venue is of hugh importance young or old.

But that's my entire POINT, Donny. When making equipment recommendations, what and where YOU play has no bearing on anyone else when it comes to adequate volume for larger gigs. If you don't play the same stuff as Gary, at the same volume, his recommendation is of little worth.

Rather than specify the number of people, specify how close to maximum you can push the gear before it gets noticeably worse, specify if you are playing disco, hiphop or rock to a crowd of under 30 year olds (who are DEFINITELY not "sick of getting blown out every time they go to an affair" ), specify whether they were satisfied with the level (perhaps compare to their usual volume)...

The only thing my crystal balls tell me is that not all of us do the same things to the same people, so expecting the same gear to work is unlikely. "I played to 100 people yesterday' means nothing. Use YOUR crystal ball, Donny Infer from THAT how loud I played...

You can't..! You can only 'guess'.

And if guessing is good enough to base a $2000 PA purchase on, then have at it!

Well that's is exactly my point. That is why I carry two PA systems with me Lg/Sm at all times so I can cover most of my bases for all MY needs with my gear. If I know in advance the audience is bigger then what I have I just make a few phone calls and add more for the gig no problem.Let's face it people are blasting audiences everywhere for no need out there ....why? because they think it sounds better? Phooey! As I always say the more these DJ's & Bands blast away, the more I make .....go figure that out in your Crystal Ball.Or maybe we need KINGFROG back here to figure it all out eh?

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 10-15-2009).]

Still obsessing about my balls..?

Got two arrangers (say a nice E80 or Audya ), in case you have someone to help you move it? Didn't think so...

The number of players on this forum that WANT to own and carry two PA's, just in case, is probably tiny. Most of us want ONE that covers all our needs.

Oh, and, BTW... ever heard of the VOLUME knob (main fader if you want to get technical)? It's what most people use to not blast out the audience when they use a PA maybe a bit bigger than they need for that gig! If some people are blasting out their audiences, it's because they are NOT using that, got NOTHING to do with the size of their PA... Got more to do with the size (or lack thereof!) of their brains...

So, you are basically saying that, as long as you have a BIG PA for when you need it, the Compacts are the perfect secondary PA for smaller engagements? Because, I don't hear ANYONE ever asking that particular question. And quantifying the point at which the bigger PA becomes necessary is the six million dollar question (as yet, unanswered), isn't it?

For me, what's relevant is, two Compacts = @300W = $2000

One L1/B1 = 750W = @$2000

If you EVER play higher volume gigs, seems like, for the same money, an L1 gets you into the game, at the price of losing stereo. Unless, of course, you can afford (or even WANT) to carry two separate PA's...

First of all the way Bose distributes it's wattage & disbursement of it's sound projection acoustically in a room is the key and secret to their great sound....vs other conventional powered speakers. Many people who have owned the L1/B1 units have switched to the Bose Compact there is a reason for that. When you play a very versatile line up year after year of gigs ranging in many different size audiences and conditions having two Pa's makes a lot of sense, sound wise, transportation wise and for backup. How many NH's have you've done with a big four hr dance gig right behind it same night? the Bose Compact is worth it's weight in gold to have something so versatile that sounds better then anything in it's class period. I would of dumped it in two seconds if it didn't.....if your not doing the same kind gigs then there's no point continuing the argument is there? People are happy with the BC sound, end of story I'd say.



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 10-15-2009).]

SOME people are happy with the Bose sound... I seem to remember YOU being not exactly in love with the L1 (and I don't recall you being content with 'people are happy with the L1' as a rebuttal to your experience, either )... I play through an L1 rig from time to time. Not going to buy one. Doesn't mean I won't recommend it if I think the buyer needs it for what it does best (but I'm sure going to try and find out what he DOES need first).

Strange how, when SOME people don't like a piece of gear, it's OK to criticize it, but when they change their mind (or, actually, get something different from the same manufacturer), all of a sudden it's 'don't do as I DID, do as I DO'

All we can EVER do here is say 'It works for ME'... But for this to be of any real general value, specifying how one actually uses something in detail makes it more than simply anecdotal. And, I'm afraid, simply specifying how many people we are playing for is of not much value. I can't tell how loud YOU will be playing for 100 people, you can't tell me how loud I would be, no-one can tell how loud Gary is either. Some other way of describing this is needed, IMO.

Maybe 'I had such and such a PA before. Ran it at 75%. This is MUCH louder/quieter/more distorted/cleaner etc. than the old system' would actually help...?

Zuki got all this started by being unsatisfied with the one Compact at higher volume when he was ecstatic at lower volumes. All I am trying to do is pin down WHAT that level is, to better help those asking themselves the same question...

Anything wrong in that?

WOW! Just got home, fired up the PC to check my Email, then clicked on the zone. I see you guys are still at it.

OK, I tried to reconcile this with some science tonight, however, I had a problem. I had not used my old DB meter in probably 5 years, and I forgot to take out the batteries--BIG MISTAKE. That $150 DB meter is now a gooey, white mess inside and well beyond repair. I hope to borrow one from a friend who owns a local music store, or maybe one from another friend who is a state trooper. Yes, a state trooper--they have noise pollution laws here and they are enforced.

At any rate, I don't think any of this will help our friend make a decision about which system to buy, and I DO NOT KNOW what kind of music he performs/plays. I seriously doubt that anyone on this forum plays head-banging rock, but I could be wrong.

If there are some I would like them to identify themselves so I can tell them the Bose L1 and L1 Compact is not the system for them. The Bose does not provide a huge falloff in volume, it does not provide the distortion some folks are used to hearing, and it is not in stereo. It is probably as loud as any system you'll ever use, and that volume level is spread fairly evenly throughout the venue. It provides clear, crisp, clean sounds throughout the human hearing range, even when pushed to higher levels.

Now, for those who tried the Bose L1 and L1 Compact, DIDN'T like them, or they DID NOT fulfill your needs, raise your hands! Hmmm. For some reason I don't seem to see more than a couple--must be something in the computer, How about those that sent them back for a refund? OK. Now lets see a show of hands from those that use them every day (or night), love what they hear, have great audience responses and DO NOT think this was too much to pay for this fantastic system? Now that's what I'm talking about!

Now, I don't perform for young people, that is, those ranging from 21 to 30 years of age. And, I don't go where they go, do what they do, and enjoy the kind of music Diki described. However, I suspect that if you put 350 of them in a room, turned the PA volume up to 120-DB (same as a jet engine), six drunken girls would get off their bar stools and shake some body parts. This would attract six drunken guys, who would stumble onto the dance floor, two of which would pick a fight, two others would begin throwing up, and the other two would steal their beer while the fight ensued. At this point the DJ/KJ/band would crank up the volume until the speakers distorted all to hell. I guess someone may think this is fun and entertaining--just not the folks I know. That's what's nice about getting older.

I sometimes perform for fairly large audiences that range in age from 45 to 65, conventions, corporate parties, major fishing tournaments, jobs that sometimes have audience sizes ranging from 300 to more than 500 people. Most do not dance, but a fair proportion of them will get out on the dance floor. At the end of the night, a significant number of individuals will come to you and tell you how much they enjoyed the music, and some ask when you'll be returning. Ironically, since I began using the Bose systems there has been one comment that always sticks in my mind: "We really loved your voice and the songs you sang. Your voice was so clear I could understand every word you sang, even though we were in the back of the room." My voice hasn't changed in years, and I never had someone make that comment when I used a conventional sound system.

So, when I get the opportunity to measure the actual DB level at a half-dozen venues, I'll post the information. From past experience, though, I suspect that the level I perform at probably falls in the 65 to 75-DB range. This is just an educated guess at this point. Now, could I crank the Bose L1 Compact up to 120-DB? I don't know. Would I want to? NAH! That's kids stuff.

Cheers,

Gary

Wow! Just home from my restaurant gig ... Like most folks here, I play a variety of venues. I'm in my 10th year at a 120 seat restaurant, I do several Italian outdoor festivals a year, as well as several weddings a year about half outdoors - tents and all that. Frequently for weddings, I do the ceremony, cocktail hour, dinner music then do a combo of live and DJ for the reception. About 5 times a year I do an oldies dance gig, country club dinner dance etc. Then there is the occasional house party or office luncheon gig. So, Most of the time, the compact is adequate and other times, I may need a 'thump'.
I do this for a living so I want to use the best tools for the job. I'm fortunate in that I can justify the investment for good equipment. I've owned many sound systems over the years and I think that the Bose systems have a great sound quality-wise compared most of the systems I have heard. At this point in my life, I'm trying to make hauling this stuff easier and Bose does that too. Those years of carrying that Leslie piece of furniture (God bless Dave McMahon - still hauling one) and those Ampeg quad 12's have taken a toll.
Sorry to ramble on so - some of the restaurant patrons provide me with some great wine ...
Ciao,
Jerry

Jerry you couldn't have said it any better...great post. The feeling is mutual all around for many of us "Real Deal Working Everyday Pro's" here for sure.

Hey Jerry

Your gig routine souinds a lot like mine. I use a Roland G1000 and two Carvin LM12 speakers (28lbs. each) with a Yamaha EMX 512 head (500 watts). Plenty for most gigs. For a small gig I just use one speaker. Need to crank it up I also keep my Crate KX220 in the car. Hook that into the system and I can do anything. Curious, what keyboard and system are you using??

Thanks

Bill in NJ

------------------
Bill from NJ

Well we play everything from Jazz to Head Banging Rock, and most stops in between (let's say the exception is Metal and all it's Sub Genres - and I do make a distinction between Metal and Head Banging Rock) to audiences of ALL ages including older clientele venues, Young Club Venues, Mixed Party Corporates, Small, Medium, Large etc etc etc etc etc and, seriously - ETC(!)

The L1 Model II with 2 Subs (and for a few, really big gigs, a Packlite) does - no, MORE than does - the job.

If we really had problems with this system, I would honestly, hand on my heart, tell you guys.

Maybe the only problem The Bose Systems have, as we've all discussed previously, is the far reaching, room filling sound. When we get those problems, we simply turn down.

But then I (and others) have said all this before haven't we?

Yikes! So ALL Bose are the same? All I've been trying to do is get an objective description of the difference in volume between running a Compact and running something (L1 included) that works for larger venues and louder crowds. And the replies I get lump them all in together. You guys love to read between the lines... (or love to post without actually reading the whole thread!)

Oh, and maybe it's the vacation atmosphere down here in Florida, but most of the disgusting behavior I've been subjected to watching in the animal houses has been from 40+ idiots, trying hard to be young and stupid (for what else, if TV is any guide, is of any value in today's America? ) for their botoxed and Nip/Tucked drunk divorcee/girlfriends. Age has got jack to do with it, my friends... class is class

Double Post

[This message has been edited by hellboy44 (edited 10-16-2009).]

Fair question Diki, but I already HAVE answered it (or began to answer it before I was prematurely and irrationally jumped upon by Hammer) in a previous thread - which maybe you didn't read all of

When you go to the Bose forum, you have many members citing the differences between the L1 Compact and Big Brother L1 Model 1 & 2.

(if you want, I'll do a search and a read and provide you with links)

What I was starting to talk about a few months ago when everyone was just beginning to 'try 'n buy' the Compacts, was the difference in number of Speakers and Volume, and more to the point, the fact that the Sub in the Compact only goes down to around 65 Hz whereas the Sub(s) in the L1 Model 1 & 2 goes down to 40 Hz - which I think is enough, as anything below 40Hz really is almost literally pure rumble 'n noise, not particularly useful - even for Hip Hop (which we play a fair bit of) and at the time I noted that the Compact was fine 'n dandy for the kind of Nursing Home/Easy Listening Venues & material the majority of SynthZoners play, but would struggle in larger venues, with more "full on" Material.

For more than that (The large venues we often play - 200 to 500 ppl plus) the L1 is, IMHO a necessity for that kind of scale, and for more modern (Top 40) material.

I wish I could give you more of a detailed idea of room size that we play, but I wouldn't be able to provide accurate enough measurements and layouts, just guesswork.

Also I have to point out that my opinion of the Compact is also, just guesswork, which probably negates my opinion of the Compact for many people - and hey, maybe it should.....


[This message has been edited by hellboy44 (edited 10-16-2009).]

I'm keen to audition the new Roland BA-330. A pair of those would offer the choice of a one-box stereo solution for smaller venues, or a pair linked up for larger ones. And presumably a healthy chunk of change out of Bose prices.

Imagine... http://media2.roland.com/en/v/v0782/v078207M.mov

A musician friend stopped by my home to hear the Bose Compact yesterday. He had been very unimpressed auditioning the Compact in a local Guitar Center with an iPhone running music thru the compact.

He very suprised what he heard coming out of the compact, which my was connected to my s910. He's sold on it for use in his smaller gigs. He currently uses the the Bose L1 Model 1 for large venues. By the way he was also unimpressed with the L1 Model 1 when he heard it in GC, then he came to one of my gigs and loved what he heard............Just another Bose happy customer. Use whatever makes you happy, but gig after gig my audiences are loving what they hear.