First of all, I don't consider you a messenger....for anything. At least I have an opinion and don't go around asking people to 'decide for me', which, by the way, is quite different from 'help me decide'.

And by the way, who said I didn't have a valid point? You? I didn't hear anybody else say that. I shared my opinion about what I thought might be some missteps in Liontracks' approach to the marketing and development of the Mediastation (and it's progeny). I ended my statement with "JMO". That was followed by YOU basically saying I was an idiot for having such an opinion (although the same basic opinions had been expressed many times by other members of this forum. So who is it that 'just doesn't understand the concept.....', just ME, or all the other members who share that opinion.

No, you got me wrong, buddy. If I want to attack the messenger, I'll wait until a legitimate one shows up.

BTW, since you seem to want ANYbody else to decide FOR you, what your 'friend' should buy, I put it to my four year old grandson. He thinks you should buy a lollipop.

chas

Is it just me or is there just a hint of a putdown buried in there? Nahhhhh, probably just my usual paranoia.

chas

Of course not, friend Chas...we both know that there are experts on just about anything (and everything), here on SZ...there are even experts on experts.

EXPERTS
Experts have
their expert fun
ex cathedra
telling one
just how nothing
can be done

Ian Just Another Expert MacNeill

EXPERT = X is an unknown factor, and a spurt is a drip under pressure

Expert (noun)..one who knows more and more about less and less.

Yep...that could be me.

The more I know, the more I know how much I don't know.

Wow!
Good job at misrepresenting a post.
Since when is asking whether there is a keyboard out there that has certain subjective and objective features asking people to decide for me? I take it that you are against persons who have post like “which arranger should I buy?”

I probably should not be responding to you on this issue because this is a ridiculous OT issue but for those who may be wondering where did this discussion come from, here is the thread I posted.
http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/Forum37/HTML/020305.html
Back to the real topic, I never said you were and idiot. I just said you along with others do not seem to understand the concept of an open keyboard.
And, I made that statement by showing how certain statements you and others made shows a lack of understanding. It is contradictory to say that one understand the concept of an open keyboard and in the same breath say that because you have VSTs in the studio, a closed arranger and workstation, a laptop that can play MP3 files and a DAW that has a sequencer so there is no need for an open keyboard.

BTW, I see that you could not figure out the I word.

isnt any computer basically open ended if you have the skills to programme it ? Therefore if i had a lap top and the knowhow i could buy a midi keyboard controller and do all the functions that either the Neko or MS/Groovebox or what have you can do. But this is the problem with Open System type keyboards and its not about understanding the concept. Its about the ridiculous choice of target market for the product in terms of Doms marketing here on th arranger keyboard forum!!

You cant aim a product like this at this forum (read the title of the forum) and expect people not to ask what this product is for. If Neko and the MS can be used in such a way as to make music production easier , more fluid and natural (you know like how musicians generally like to make music) then show me that and i will run with it. But when someone like Miden who i have genuine respect for and who certainly gives the impression that he knows quite a bit about music production from a hardware and software perspective gives an actual review of a liontracs open system product , i sit up and listen. Do a search and read the review and then talk about 'proof of concept' again.

I am not having a go at you Sharp. I have plenty of respect for you both here and on the Korg forum.

There have been other people who have given opinions on the product both positive and negative who NEVER ACTUALLY OWNED OR USED THE PRODUCT and it not that their opinions are not valid. They are simply not truly qualified. There have been others who actually owned an MS open system product and achieved moderate success with it as a musical instrument but not actually used the instrument in anyway other than a VST host.

I am not knocking the Groovebox. Afterall what the hell do we know about what this instrument is for ? I mean we have had two pages of discussion based upon just two pictures of what looks like a new colour for the mediatstaion ...... How is it diferentiated from the very bad reputation mediastation ? whats it USP (Unique selling Proposition ? And if the MS is an open system cant the same ends be achieved by the MS ????

And we all know what a storming envelope pushing, seamless and inspirational instrument that was .........right ?????

[This message has been edited by spalding (edited 10-24-2009).]

What is the Groove for? Well from its name and features I think we can pretty much assume it’s a Grove Box designed for DJ use.

Review: The Mediastation has been changed that much since the review that most of it is probably no longer relevant.

Who are the Neko and Lionstracs for: Those that want this type of instrument?

Definition:

Closed Keyboard: Designed for those that are happy to accept what the manufacture gives them.

Open Keyboard: Designed for those that want to use the software and sounds that they want.

Which is best: “Neither”, it’s all down to personal choice

i hear you abacus but the distinction between closed and open systems is not that clear anymore. The neko or MS is just a computer with keys essentially until YOU ADD content. the Korg M3 or Fantom G or yamaha xs is closed until you midi it to a computer and YOU ADD DIFFERENT CONTENT OR ADDITIONAL. What we are discusing in reality is if you want to work with one box of tricks THAT IS HOPEFULLY WELL INTERHGRATED AND FREE OF os GLITCHES ie Self contained keyboard or two box of tricks ie keyboard and laptoP AGAIN WITH A SMOOTH OS WITH LITTLE OR NO GLITCHES.

The same problems of software integration exists with BOTH SYSTEMS and it takes a certain customer to be arsed to work out thos e technical bumps themselves.

With the 'closed system keyboard' you are given lots of proprietory tools and sounds of very high quality to get you well on your way to making great music but it doeS not preclude you from 'opening the system' with a connected computer and some technical ability.

So who is the Neko or MS aimed at and why the hell is it being promoted as suitable for people on the arranger forum .......

That for me really is the crux of the matter

oh..... and every clip that i have seen on youtube of the Neko seems to show it being used as a glorified drum machine.....whats that about ??????