Ahh.. the Fan Boy post. I get ya now.

Sorry, I kind of switched off reading Diki's post that time because I felt it was so off the wall and didn't fit in this thread at all.

Not sure where all that came from, so for the most part I just ignored it.

Regards
James

James an open and closed system instrument loses its status the moment you connect it to a computer. they then all become 'open systems' from the lowliest casiso to the korg oasys.
i use the word 'system' because that applies to any configuration of instrument and once it is married to a computer , say a lap top it is an opens system. The only difference is in how the system is configured. So if i can connect my lowly casio to a computer suddenly i have as much flexibilty (if i have the technical ability ) as a neko and MS or any other 'open keyboard' or have i got that completely wrong or was the Komplete 6 software designed only to run on a neko or MS ????????

Dont answer I am being sarcastic :-)

[This message has been edited by spalding (edited 10-25-2009).]

sorry some members here most understand what is a computer at fist:

A computer is a machine that manipulates data according to a set of instructions.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer

a closed arranger system is a computer to.
only differents is you have sounds burned on flash chip that can be done by factory. some soundcards on PC have this to, the MS have this to. but closed system are very slow for sampling becouse of de hardware used in a closed system. you have samplers like AKAI S6000, they are computers to but.i have used AKAi S6000. Akai S6000 has many options but is limited in view of today's PC.

Most people think they have the same PCs as 6 years ago, while many in the field of hardware and software is done and continues to happen.

only the big 3 keep fooling people with rycling of old hardware and chips
but now have become computer parts very cheap and is time for open system like MS from lionstracs

Hi spalding.



OK so don't read this reply then because there is a huge difference and it's what makes the open keyboard really good :-)

Doing what you said will get you close but the advantage an Open Labs or Lionstracs keyboard will have is in it's custom software, controllers and integrated hardware.

If we look at the custom software for the Open Labs Neko for a moment, it has a program called RIFF on it which basically allows you to recall entire setups for songs just by touching the block you placed the song into on the screen.

So regardless of how complex your song is or how many different VSTi's you decided to use all at the same time, all that is only a single press of a button away and this works for both live performances or sequenced.

This setup can extend out into mapping all the controllers of the keyboard too, so for example on a Lionstracs product, you have actual buttons and sliders that are directly connected to the very specific program you loaded.

So in short, the difference between a cheap keyboard connected to a computer VS an open keyboard is that the open keyboard is designed to operate like a closed keyboard from the point of view that you have real buttons, controllers and a software system driving it all that makes everything only a single press away and when you recall a VSTi the controllers are mapped and tie directly into that VSTi so you can get the most out of it.

There's more to it than that, but that's the basic idea.

Regards
James

Just one of the so-called included "features" of the MS that ALWAYS crashed the entire system requiring a re-boot.

From memory, on the MS it was called a Performance where it was SUPPOSED to save the entire panel setup to a bank.

As far as I know it is STILL not fixed in any OS, and is still waiting for the addition of CDG (Karaoke Video) software to be written into the OS. Even then there is no guarantee its going to work.

It is one of the "live" play tools I was talking about that made the MS a failure for me.

Dennis

Performance system is already fixed from long time now.
This all new features are included on new OS Nvidia 3.4, with OpenGl support and 4 VGA outputs, FREE download.

BUT you there can NOT use, untill you upgrade the PCIexpress Geforce LVDS VGA card...sorry

domenico most we include the PCI express card or also replase this MS card to:
http://www.lionstracs.com/store/pcivga-lvds-p-149.html


how most be this done? does this mean that we need 2 cards one from lionstracs and the other low profile Nvidea 8400 card?

or only the low profile Nvidea 8400 card without PCI Silicon Motion card?

please e-mail me about this an you have e-mail from me read it please


[This message has been edited by AFG Music (edited 10-25-2009).]

Ummmm, looking at the last two or three posts, I think I'll stick with 'closed' systems for a bit longer.

chas

sorry double post.
chas

[This message has been edited by cgiles (edited 10-25-2009).]

All I've been trying to do is inject a sense of reality into this discussion. No-one, to anyone's knowledge, managed to turn the MS into something integrated and superior in overall sound and versatility to a T3/PA2 etc..

DESPITE the 'potential'.

I'm not putting these things down, just trying to put a little dose of smelling salts under your noses. I mean, in the studio, I use all the same tools that are gathered together in the Groove, loop players, soft synths, soft samplers. Been doing it for YEARS (since VSTi's were invented and before). And if I've learned ONE thing from the whole process, it's that getting a realtime integrated musical performance out of the process is a VERY difficult task. It isn't ANYTHING like stepping up to a closed WS or arranger. Simply the task of balancing the sounds to each other, EQ-ing them, making sure the same sonic space surrounds them is hard enough on ONE tune. Creating a balanced sound set that you can use to quickly compose and record a variety of musics is really, really difficult.

It's why I prefer that the TOTL VSTi's come pre-installed and balanced, and demonstration content provided before I consider that something that comes open is going to be any LESS work than what I already have... And I see little point in any system that is MORE difficult than what I already use.
I've long ago decided that, for live gigging, most TOTL arrangers are already the ideal keyboard. Few customers can tell the difference between my G70 B3 emulation and B4 in a live setting, few can tell the difference between the G70 piano and a VSTi one, why complicate my life doing something the hard way, when the easy way already exists..?

The thing isn't that this should be a discussion (how long has this same one been going on for? )... it should be those with 'open' arrangers (especially for here) and WS's SHOWING us how 'easy' all this is. We already know how easy it is on a TOTL arranger. Rather than READING about it, I should be LISTENING to the open proponents' music, done on open keyboards. I mean, no shortage of closed arranger demos. I'm sorry but only a tiny number of 'open' demos posted here have impressed me at all, whereas a MUCH larger number of closed ones have.

I STILL don't want to be TOLD how easy a closed system is, I want to be SHOWN. And I know how good an open system can sound in the hands of an expert. I'd just like some acknowledgment of just exactly HOW good you are going to have to be before you don't need those amazing voice creators, soundset creators and content creators that create integrated WS's and arrangers that most of us already use and rely on.

Let us not forget, also that even a lot of so called 'closed' WS's and arrangers have samplers. That can play sliced audio loops, too. My take all along has been, WHY do I HAVE to forgo these integrated soundsets and content, to get an 'open' system. Isn't the answer a combination of BOTH...? It's only laziness or lack of money, because any open system COULD have a great onboard set to get you started. But it seems that no-one realizes the sales potential of something that STARTS OUT as something like a MoXS or PA2X, and then ADDS the open stuff. Seems like you shouldn't have to make the choice.

I want both. Does this make me a bad person?