This is a plea to anyone thyat feels they have expertise or at least a really good idea about style creation.

I have my PA1X and i love it love it love it .....however i have had limited success in making fantastic styles on the keyboard. I have used it with some success but it has been pure trial and error. I can make great drum patterns, very nice bass patterns but struggle with the other accompaniments . I need to really get under the hood of this machine and understand how to create styles from scratch playing into the instrument each accompaniment at a time, track by track. I am not talking about technically doing this as i can do this myself . I am talking about musically doing this.

For example

How would you play chords when creating a style so that it changes naturally when you play the style back and change chords in a way that sounds smooth and not jerky or incorrectly transposed ?

Is anyone able to do a video presentation on style creating from start to finish showing how the different CV's can be used to give new variations within the same style without pressing a new style variation or how the Retrigger functions can be used ?

We have such an awesome instrument at our disposal but i cant help but feel that i am missing out on the real heart of the instrument becuase i dont know how the functions work in a musical context.

I know that perhaps i am in the minority of users that wants to get deeper into their instrument but if anyone , anyone at all can let us into this secret world of style creation i would be eternally grateful.

Can anyone offer real practical musical assistance

Spalding,

The Korg must have some form of Style Assembly...i.e.you can swap parts around within a style, and/or use parts from another style.

I find for 99% of my style needs, I can make a nice original(?) style by using the above method.

The parts are already optimized for use, and sound right for all the chords, and their inversions.

If your Korg has the equivalent of the Yamaha's style "Groove" function, you can even utilize this to take parts from styles unrelated to the original...let's say a swing walking bass line added to an 8 Beat.

I very rarely have had to actually "play" in a part, although, when I do, I usually play in the bass line or drums, as you do...I find them the easiest.

Someone on the Korg Forum must be into style making?

if you can find your way around with italian, here's some interesting tutorials for PA series. they are quite intuitive too.
http://www.ekomusicgroup.com/esound/pages/news.php?id=582&area=2

As style making is a big feature part of an arranger keyboard, it baffles me why manufacturers dont make it a point to have instructional DVD's in regards to every feature on the KB including "STYLE CREATION" in a simple step by step format. I would have to think that they probably think if they made it so easy no one would buy new models so quickly when they can just keep making styles on what they have.

Spalding,

I am fighting the same issues. Trying to learn how to make styles.

Please post you request at http://www.korgforums.com.
You can do a search for the topic. Various users have addressed the same topic.

There is series of 3 excellent DVDs for the PA1x at the same forum. Look in http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=26292.

Here is a link for EMC Software for Korg: http://www.korgforums.com/support/misc/emc.htm

Site with a lot of tips: http://korgpa2xpro.yolasite.com/pad-creation.php

Good luck

That's great.....at least Korg seems to be interested in helping their users make styles via step by step DVD's...but it also requires your own talent as a player top succeed too.

Thanks Machetero . I was actually one of the producers of the Korg Arranger Secrets DVD . I know how to create styles but thats a whole different ball game to make the styles sound as melodic as the originals on the keyboard. I have spent time with my instrument and have made it my business to know how to play the keyboard and to understand bass licks, guitar riffs horns and harmonies but none of that helps me when programing using the style creation function. Yes Ian i can swap parts all day long using the copy function within the style editor just like yamaha and mess about with groove quantizing etc but i am talking about original styles as in 'i made the style from scratch'. I know it can be done because i have done it myself but it was trial and error and i have created good styles but it took me ages because i basically didnt know what i was doing melodically or chordally but had to rely upon my ears and guess work to see how the style turned out. Sometimes the style behaved complately unexpectedly depending on the chord progression. There must be some way to logically take away the sometimes randomness of the accompaniment voicing. There must be a method out there ? Surely ?

One of the biggest problems is making all the style parts coherent to a certain beat.

What I mean is that, to avoid glitches, each of the musical parts should be able to take a chord change at the same point. We can hear it when we play styles and try to force chord changes on them that they don't want to do. When there are long chords on piano sounds, Rhodes sounds, long guitar chords, that sort of thing - if you play a chord in the middle of them, it's glitch city...

Now, most of the time, we simply pick the style that suits the rhythm of the changes. If there's always a new chord on an upbeat, we pick styles that have parts that play on that upbeat. Picking a style that doesn't have anything but long notes across that transition is going to be jumpy and glitchy.

So, one of the things that works well in style creation is to make sure that there are consistent points in ALL the style parts where new notes are being played. Then it's a case of listening to the style of music you are trying to copy, and find out where the changes tend to come. Are they all downbeats, are they often on the 'and' of 2? The 'and' of 4?

I think that this is one of the things that distinguish the pro ROM styles from most amateur efforts...

[This message has been edited by Diki (edited 10-03-2009).]

Hi Spalding,
not quite sure I understand, are you having hassles with the ntt settings? or more so a case of what notes are allowable in a style track etc
I don't record from scratch, but I have spent time on trying to work out the settings. I found that if the settings were incorrect, sometimes the wrong notes were transposed to make up for missing 6th or 7th's.

I now find tracks recorded based on maj7th chords the easiest. The i series setting usually works well, & usually only 1 cv needs to be recorded.

Melodic type phrases can be a bit of a hassle ( found that with some of my technics conversions). Maybe the only way around it , may be to record multiple cv's ie maj, 6th, 7th etc

Problem is I use a PA800, & maybe some of the settings may differ from pa1x ie initially my PA800 only parallel setting, with updates it now has "fixed" setting also, which is a great setting for smooth voice leading.
Not sure if I can be of any help.
best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by spalding:
[B]

yes Rikkisbears . I struggle with the musical uses of the NTT tables and the Rt Rp functions in a musical sense .
For example i play a lot of funk and like playing horns that might be just a cluster of phrases at the end of a bar . I need someone to actually show me what these functions do and how to apply them in a musical sense as opposed to just a technical one. I know you can change them, i know how to change them, i just dont know why i shouild change them and what effect musically they can have when you play.

Hi Spalding,
I'm on vacation for a couple more days, no access to my keyboard.

Maybe we can chat when I get back.

best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by spalding:
[B]

Other than what I've found on the psrtutorial site, I haven't seen much on creating styles on a Tyros.

Same for Jorgen's site...lots of great content there but I saw nothing that creates a style from scratch.

Are there other style creation sources on the web for yammies?



------------------
Bill in Dayton

not as far as i know bill but i am determined to crack it. Styles are the heart of the instrument and style creation has been a facility on every arranger that i have owned (3 in total) and i have never mastered that. If Rikkisbears and whoever will work with me on this is willing , i hope to develope some form of tutorial or guide to help us get to grips with this intriguing and greatly underused function.

I am kind of excited about what i will find. I am going to email Korg directly and see what can be found out .

Hi Bill

Thanks for your comment about my site.

Right, I have nothing about creating styles from scratch using a T2. But I do have some information about creating styles from scratch using a MIDI sequencer software.

The professional stylemakers I know always use MIDI sequencer software when creating styles.

You will find my "Style Creation Course" beginning at http://www.jososoft.dk/yamaha/articles/style_1.htm

Regards
Jørgen

Kudos to you, Spalding. There would be great 'worth' to many in something like that.

Hi Spalding,
happy to try & help out if I can.

Style creation/editing functions on keyboards has been a hobby (addiction) of mine for many years. Technics, Roland, Yamaha, Ketron & most recently Korg.

Rob had hoped to get me involved somehow, in an additional DVD covering style creation, unfortunately he overestimates my abilities haahaa.

How can I help??
I suppose I could get hold of a PA1X manual & compare the various settings between it & my PA800. I have a feeling the PA800 might have have additional chord tables & ntt settings, unless Korg upgraded pa1x to match pa800/pa2x etc.

Also how would you like to communicate?
via Korg Forum ( maybe we could get a sticky & additional members might get involved??) or
I currently have a stylemaking group for PA800/PA2x series at yahoo. Pretty difficult to get a peep out of any of the members, even though when joining, a number of them had mentioned they do create their own styles.

best wishes
Rikki

Rikkisbears i sent you an email. thank you for volunteering to share with me whatever knowledge and tips you have.

Rikki and Spalding,
It would be nice if you decided to communicate via the Korg PA forum as many of us would benefit and some will certainly be able to contribute as well.

In my case it's not the technical aspect it is the musical aspect that is difficult in creating styles.

Using Song MIDI's as a basis is where I think I can do the most good.

Lee S.

Hi Lee,
for starters we've got to sort some stuff out which we'll do by email.
It's up to Spalding as to how he's going to go about it. I'm only contributing some of the knowledge & ideas I've got floating round my teeny brain haahaa.
best wishes
Rikki

p.s.
Haven't spotted you in a while, did you get the styles I posted at style group before I went on vacation? It was just a country & a 60's soul, and another one was quite a useable piano arpeggio waltz.

Rikki,
OK, sounds good...let see where Spalding takes us.

No, didn't get those styles ect, thanks for the reminder. I was vacationing with Rob Sherratt (Korg Forum) in Greece for a while, came home with a bad cold and now I am getting back into things.

I get them and try them out....

Thanks,
Lee S.