Donny-

I use full keyboard and use piano on 99.9% of my tunes until I hit the lead sections...

What's your "anchor" instrument when using an arranger? Piano, organ, something?

Are you using OTS's mostly?

------------------
Bill in Dayton

99.9% Now you see how different we utilize & play an arranger KB. I use my own custom tweaked OTS sounds basically within my "easy 20" setups in this order...Piano,EP,/Strings,...
Growl Sax, Trumpet,Guitars, Accordion... Organ, Solo Strings,
Brass combos..

They are all "ANCHOR Instruments" because as a OMB arranger artist you must become the "WHOLE" band and all its components as if they were there playing with you. That is my mindset when I play. I had a 7 PC dance band 25 years, and now a Power Single 17yrs and still to this day want to feel and sound like that Band all by myself....that is what I strive for on stage every day.

but, this all means nothing unless you can hear & see it performed right? So we can all learn from each other..
We can talk until the cows come home, but listening & watching as I always say is worth a thousand words.

Who cares what others are doing....do it YOUR WAY and make it count!



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 10-17-2009).]

Just my 2 cents worth - I rarely use a sustain pedal on the job. I do use piano patches, but do not necessarily use a sustain pedal. I am a converted organist/accordionist and am more comfortable with a volume pedal, if any. As Bill asked, I do not find myself just playing solo piano very often.

I do use a sustain pedal in the studio and I rely on it with my digital pianos at church and home. It's just that I find I don't use it enough to need it on a one hour job. Since I'm still using a majority of SMFs to styles, the song is pretty full and I can get by without one. Whatever...

I have lots of arranger clients that do not use a sustain pedal.

When you think of it, it is really only designed to use with piano sounds, although some of us use it to good advantage with other sounds.

I can easily think of three pro arranger players I know, that don't use a pedal.

Many players come to the arranger after being trained on another instrument that does not use a sustain pedal...lots of guitar players, as well as organists, and accordion players.

I find it handy, but that doesn't mean that everyone else should.

Gee I didn't know there were so many others who do it like me also. using the sustain pedal and joystick/Mod....is just another technique....some use it some don't,so no big deal....what is a big deal is what your music sounds like in the end result plain & simple.

Carry On

It's not 'another' technique. Even if you HAVE a sustain pedal, you should be able to smoothly hold
voices with traditional technique. The thing is, the sustain pedal ADDS to that technique, and allows you
to play things you CAN'T without it.

Every one of us that went through standard piano lessons can remember that much piano music
(especially beginner stuff) had the pedal marks written out, and how adamant our teachers were
that you not use it unless indicated. You are SUPPOSED to do what Donny does a lot of the time,
but when the piece calls for it, there the sustain pedal is!

I'm sorry, but you AREN'T playing an accordion any more. You are playing an ARRANGER. And, an
arranger has sustain pedals. This is simply absurd. I'm pretty sure how Donny would react to someone
that decided that accordion playing shouldn't involve any use of the left hand buttons. Now SURE... you
CAN play the accordion's RH side only, but that doesn't REALLY count as playing the accordion, does
it? And playing a keyboard without a sustain pedal falls into the same category... If you play a piano
patch, you should play it pianistically. I seem to recall all SORTS of advice from His Duality about
remembering to play each sound idiomatically. Well, to play any piano type sound (including Rhodes,
Wurli, etc.), to be idiomatic, you need a sustain pedal.

Why not take your own advice, Donny?

[This message has been edited by Diki (edited 10-19-2009).]

Diki this will never end I've stated my opinion...there is no wrong or right....enjoy your way & I'll enjoy mine ok?.......

cass ... Right, whatever, ... but I am willing to bet that the piano parts on the SMF were created using a sustain pedal when appropriate ... ...

Diki, I admit to never having taken 'formal' piano lessons, but I would think piano teachers would not want young students to 'overuse' the sustain pedal so they don't teach it from the beginning, but don't they teach the proper use of it at sometime?

t.

The granddaddy of the arranger, the home organ (with auto accompaniment) did not have a sustain pedal, and in fact, early single keyboard arrangers didn't have them either.

In any case, most arrangers are shipped without a pedal (including some TOTL) so it is basically an option...so, they must think that not everyone wants/needs a pedal.

Not every arranger player uses piano sounds as often as some others...those of us trained on the piano, or who were self taught on the instrument, need the sustain pedal. There are players who do not...lots of them...I do clinics and meet lots of players...I know of which I speak.

Use of the sustain pedal isn't simply about pianism. I am surprised you don't mention the other uses for it
that transcend traditional uses, Ian. Want to hang a 'floater' string or organ note, while you move other
parts around it? Double split the keyboard, hit and hold the string note, go to the other sound in the
middle section. How about a pedal ostinato? Can't do that on a piano (decays too quickly, most of the
time), a snap on an arranger with a sustain pedal...

And if your sustain pedal input (or another input) can be programmed to do sostenuto, even better! Hold
ONLY the note you are playing when pressed, all others play normally... Gives the impression of two
hands when only one is available!

Look, I'm not saying that Donny HAS to use a sustain pedal... if he wants to cripple his technique, why
should I worry? What I am concerned with is anyone taking him seriously If you
don't WANT your piano parts to sound like a piano player, if you don't WANT to be able to use your RH
for voice selection or transpose or any of the myriad things it might need to do, without cutting off your
melody, if you don't WANT smooth arpeggios (or arpeggios at all!), leave the pedal at home. Stick to
organ sounds and organ voicing and organ (or accordion) technique. I am just assuming that this
MIGHT not be the area you want to ignore the most!

Look, Donny heavily uses MP3's, SMF's and styles that have piano parts with sustain already in them.
It's not like he is NOT using piano sounds with no sustain in it. Just what HE plays. If you want to, you
can do the same. Heck, any of us can try this at home (or on the gig!) any time we want. But I can't
see anyone that actually LEARNED to use a sustain pedal stopping using it because it's an IMPROVEMENT.

This is far more just one old guy saying 'I never learned, and I can't learn now (too convinced I'm
right about everything ), and if my piano parts suffer for it, so what? I'm still making a living'. Well,
so did Tiny Tim, but I bet you don't say 'get rid of the arranger and take up the ukelele! '

Piano teachers, on the whole, introduce the use of the sustain pedal after just a few weeks or months of
basic fingering. But hey, what do they know?

You know, I bet, were I to say that I NEVER used volume pedals when playing organ patches, all the
organ players happily denying the usefulness of the sustain pedal would say I'm CRAZY... part of getting a
good organ sound is the use of the swell pedal. And it is. And I do (use a swell pedal, that is). You see, I'm
not so ready to dismiss centuries of established wisdom and technique. And neither should you...