Don't get me wrong Ian...I have used pedals in the past many times especially before arrangers in my band years using multiple KBs...I am not a Piano player but a Singer first who accompanies my singing in many ways using Styles, SMF, Mp3, backing tracks. As a trained Accordion player at age 7 as a kid my technique is different. When I switched to KB's in the late 60's I retained my skills of playing and still do to this day. The times I use a Piano patch in a arranger mix I let "some" of my fingers hold down notes when changing notes more then normal giving a pseudo sustain effect using the default efx already on that sound, it sounds great in the mix.
A few people at the jam asked me how I do it when I was playing and thought it was unique also. Playing in fingered mode your limited. I mix all the modes I use up for each gig depending on the venue...sometimes all three equally, sometimes styles all night at most 4 hr gigs.....at NH 1 hr shows it's All Live Styles always. We all play different there is n't a right or wrong way to do it......the only thing that matters is what it sounds like!

I come from an accordion background as well. So I can understand the no sustain pedal idea. After all there is no sustain pedal on an accordion.

BUT, I have never been able to apply the same technique to a piano. The sustain pedal, and indeed sostenuto and soft pedals, are really indispensable.

On an arranger keyboard, one does not really need a sustain pedal for the left hand. As we all know its a simple matter of press the chord shape (or one finger if thats your wont) and the keyboard does the rest.

If one is primarily a vocal artist, then perhaps no sustain pedal is required for the right hand either as it is probably doing single melody line solos.

I learnt jazz accordion (as well as the traditional stradella, plus what they called classical accordion) so I do a lot of chordal melody work with the right hand which relates really well on the piano keyboard. I have to admit the sustain pedal is a wonderful tool. But each to their own I suppose, and I can see how not using one would also work, particularly for an accordionist.

Dennis

Interesting...

Do you ever change it up during your non- dance sets and turn off the accmp. and just play a piano/strings or pad combo?



------------------
Bill in Dayton

Yes, of course...the accordion. I played one for years, had an old Salanti 120 bass, and you're so right...didn't need a pedal...it was all technique, so I understand where you are coming from.

I've also seen and heard you play an arranger, and you are a fine player...a total pro...or, as it's been said about others here on SZ, the real deal.

I was mainly a piano player, started when I was 4, so the sustain pedal is very much a part of my technique.

Even for sounds that traditionally don't need a sustain (basically, anything OTHER than the pianos,
E. Pianos, etc.), there is still, IMO, an enormous need for it on an arranger. So often, either your RH is
needed to do things like change keyboard Parts,
change Tones, hit transpose buttons, change from full to split modes, navigating to the next registration,
etc., etc., or your LH likewise...

How do you do this without what you are playing chopping off? A string line played 'held by hand' ties
up your hand. Use the sustain, and now you can press a button, move a slider, etc.. Few of the
instruments we try to emulate needed to do anything else other than just play. Arranger use (if you are
actually playing much ) needs a lot of button input. Some way of holding a note while you press the
buttons could come in VERY handy..!

In the spirit of 'use everything you can' surely adding a sustain for when it can do something you can't do
any other way is appropriate?

(And damn! Hasn't everybody heard of TinyURL.com yet? )


[This message has been edited by Diki (edited 10-16-2009).]

Ian I understand how a sustain pedal is a crucial part of playing piano as trained also......when i accompany someone at a gig who wants to sing a song I usually go Octave Piano/Strings & Accmp Off because most cannot keep up with an arranger KB & I can better follow their horrible timing ... I just consider pedals of any kind just another players tool as is charts, lyrics etc etc .....some use them some don't no big deal.
What matters is how you use what you have and how it sounds.

So... how does it sound? Got anything that is just you playing the piano, no sustain? I've been in
situations on other people's rigs with no sustain, and sure, you can find SOMETHING that kind of works,
but generally, it's so limited it barely qualifies as a piano part... (and I came from an accordion
background, too. Doesn't mean I can't adapt)

I'm afraid this is getting like someone saying you CAN play with just one finger (in either hand!). SURE you
can... but is it as good as playing with five (in each hand)? I can play a melody with my nose
Doesn't mean it SOUNDS any good, though

I am surprised. This seems like such an arbitrary self imposed limitation to save you what, ONE
insignificantly small piece of gear? I can understand trading away a 45 lbs. arranger, to save your back.
But a sustain pedal (tablet style) weighs nothing, takes up no room, and adds enormously to your abilities.

Or does it?

[This message has been edited by Diki (edited 10-16-2009).]

I sat down and tried playing my Tyros without using a sustain pedal...

Can it be done? Absolutely. Depending on the kind of tune, you can get away with it. I'd say it comes to a style type thing...it must suit Donny's needs. In arranger mode, the style just vamps along...its not hard to make it work that way.

I do a lot of chording with both hands and use a fair amount of fills, instrument changes, modulations, etc. I would miss it if I didn't have it.

But, if you turn the accmp off and go to straight piano, uh, its extremely limiting. It basicially sounds like **** . This is probably why all quality pianos come with a sustain pedal.

Donny said he sometimes turns off the accmp. sometimes for guest singers and uses an octave piano/strings setting. I tried that too-trying to play full chords everything took on a Ferrante & Teischer (sp?) feel to it. Its cool, for a pass through-maybe a full song...if it was the right one...

ON a side note-I find it easier for guests singers to sing with the full arranger as they then get a solid drum beat and whatnot to assist them. Using just a piano with no sustain, uh...yuck....

But hey, Donny's comfortable with it so who cares, eh? He knows what he's doing...


------------------
Bill in Dayton

[This message has been edited by Bill in Dayton (edited 10-16-2009).]

1) ... accordion sustain is accomplished by continuing to pull or push the bellows while holding down a note(s) ... that technique has NOTHING to do with sustaining a note on a keyboard or piano ...
2) ... try playing a 3 or 4 octave arpeggio or polyphonic chord on a kb without a sustain peddle - even in the midst of playing a song - and it sounds like crap ... unless someone is using 'lightning like' finger/hand movements to hit a sustain button before playing the notes ...

just my 2 cents worth ...

t.

I never play arpeggios,kind of hard playing in fingered mode when your left hand is doing chords and other cool things ....
I have great multipads for that when needed I don't play piano within the style mix long enough during a song to warrant a sustain pedal, too many other sounds to utilize, but good luck to all who do.

As a side note there are many players I have seen who think they do but have no clue how to use a sustain pedal properly also....just like the joystick/mod wheel...over use of sustain sounds terrible. I have seen players mash down on a pedal for almost the entire song!! just horrible.




[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 10-17-2009).]