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#274379 - 10/25/09 10:00 AM
Re: When did it stop being about music?
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Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14243
Loc: NW Florida
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Economy of scale... pure and simple. When 3 million people WANT to see you play in a year, you CAN'T play small clubs (do the math). When jazz musicians have audiences that large, they'll play stadiums, too. I seem to recall Montreaux or Newport Jazzfest getting pretty big, but that's ONE WEEK. These guys pull that number twice a week Anyway, this is not unique in any way. Anyone remember the scale of ELP's touring rig? Stadium rock is its' own experience. No, it's not a theater or a small club. It is its' own musical experience, different, but still enjoyable. Like seeing a small high school football match, then going to see a huge college or pro game. Same game, utterly different experience... I have a feeling that, at this point in U2's career, that they aren't all that desperate to make money Playing to the most people, letting the majority of their fans that WANT to see them be able to, even if it means a lumbering, expensive touring system, seems fair enough... Trust me, music all through the ages has been about money as well as art. Mozart, Beethoven, Verdi, none of these guys were immune to the commercial considerations of actually making MONEY while trying to produce 'art'.... This is more of the same, just ramped up for 21st C technology. I guarantee Liszt would have played to this number of people if he could have!
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An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!
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#274385 - 10/25/09 06:35 PM
Re: When did it stop being about music?
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Senior Member
Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
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Originally posted by hellboy44: And Ian, I think Country Music has been GREATLY affected by 20th/21st Century Money Making.
Yes, that's true, HB, but I did say there were exceptions ...come to think of it, there ain't a lot of purity left in Country....I hardly even class some Country artists as "Country" anymore...like you said, it's more "Pop" and perhaps, a bit of "Rock". I liked the "old" stuff better...Hank Williams, Floyd Cramer... But, I think Jazz has mainly stayed true to form. And...as SemiLive said, folk music hasn't changed much either. [This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 10-25-2009).]
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#274386 - 10/25/09 08:47 PM
Re: When did it stop being about music?
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Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14243
Loc: NW Florida
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There's purity, honesty and heart left in any genre... Thing is, we're talking about a band that achieved incredible success. Worldwide success. I see no more 'purity' in commercial jazz, or commercial country, or commercial Classical. They are all doing it for exactly the same reason that U2 are... In fact, if you consider that U2 aren't even breaking even on the tour, yet, that shows a LOT more 'purity' than many others. How many jazz stars, or classical stars, or country stars will keep a tour going on that scale (or any, really ) if it doesn't make them some money PRONTO..? Looks to me like U2 like playing more than they like money... that's pretty 'pure' in MY book...
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An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!
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#274391 - 10/26/09 04:30 AM
Re: When did it stop being about music?
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Senior Member
Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 6703
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
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Originally posted by Diki: Looks to me like U2 like playing more than they like money... that's pretty 'pure' in MY book... Don't know if I agree with you on that. Unless when you say 'playing', you mean 'staying in the spotlight', 'being adored by millions of fans', 'worshiped as gods', 'constantly being told that they are as good or better than ever, even when way past their prime (Rolling Stones?)', 'satisfying the need to (continue to) feel young and relevant', or maybe just testing the waters to see if they've still 'got it'. I think the guys that still "like playing more than they like money" are the ones that, despite their wealth and fame, will drop by the local pub and sit in with the house band. Happens frequently in Jazz, 'though few jazz musicians have the fame, wealth, recognition, notoriety, and star power of the average rock star (could be part of the price you pay for putting 'the music' first). Of course, there IS something to be said for tooling around in your own jet, owning castles in the south of France, banging supermodels and movie stars, and trashing hotel rooms with impunity. I guess it just depends on what's important to you. So, what's it going to be, 20+ years of being Janet Joplin, Jim Morrison, Jimmi Hendrix, OR 70+ years of being say, Quincy Jones. chas
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"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]
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#274396 - 10/26/09 12:35 PM
Re: When did it stop being about music?
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Senior Member
Registered: 01/01/09
Posts: 2195
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Everyone starts out playing for fun. Then, IF success comes along, it can turn out to be playing for the money. Guys like the Stones, I think, end up where the wheel has turned full circle. The larger part of what they do now is for the fun aspect. And, like many people, what else do they know.
I think it was John Lennon who, when asked a question along the lines of fun vs. money, said, "We started out playing for kicks, then it was for the money, and now it's back to playing for kicks again."
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#274397 - 10/26/09 01:07 PM
Re: When did it stop being about music?
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Senior Member
Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
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Originally posted by 124:
I think it was John Lennon who, when asked a question along the lines of fun vs. money, said, "We started out playing for kicks, then it was for the money, and now it's back to playing for kicks again." How true.
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#274399 - 10/26/09 03:06 PM
Re: When did it stop being about music?
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Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14243
Loc: NW Florida
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Originally posted by cgiles: So, what's it going to be, 20+ years of being Janet Joplin, Jim Morrison, Jimmi Hendrix, OR 70+ years of being say, Quincy Jones.
chas
Or maybe 70 years of being Frank Sinatra, who toured WELL after his heyday, banged models and movie stars (and even marrying a few!) from here to Timbuktu.. No sector of the music biz is immune from those a bit past their shelf life. I could probably name a dozen of your greatest influences that toured bombed out of their brains on junk simply for the money, when they weren't capable of playing as well as their heyday... For every Quincy Jones, there's a Charlie Parker [This message has been edited by Diki (edited 10-26-2009).]
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!
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#274403 - 10/27/09 08:59 AM
Re: When did it stop being about music?
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Senior Member
Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 6703
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
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Ok, I think the question has drifted a little bit. The original post questioned whether it was necessary to spend $300,000,000.00 to create the proper environment for you to enjoy a piece of music. I'm thinking that with a set THAT extravagant, even I could walk out on stage nude, scream incoherently into the mike, play a couple of factory arps from my Fantom G7 (at earsplitting volume, of course), and quite a few people would leave the concert thinking they had experienced something remarkable. I mean, how much should you have to spend to keep the sight of Tori Spelling from making you want to barf? Why not just start out with Meagan Fox? Shouldn't good music be it's own reward? I know there is supposed to be good and bad music in every genre', but (and call me old fashioned) I have not, as yet, been able to put a qualitative value on Punk Rock, Heavy Metal, Trance, etc. There is no 0 to 10. There's just zero. Therefore to sell it (I'm not necessarily talking about U2 here, before someone gets upset), we have to create this incredibly expensive fantasy experience, of which 1% is the actual music.
I guess I'm just old and out of touch, but it seems to me that that kind of visual extravaganza would actually DETRACT from the music instead of enhancing it. And isn't that what it's supposed to be all about, isn't that why we come, the MUSIC.
chas
_________________________
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]
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