I'm curious...you seem quite enthusiastic about Korg...do you use a Korg arranger, as well as your GEM...if not, why not?

If so, why do you use it?

Again, just curious.

No I don’t use a Korg. Don’t like touch screens.
I talk about Korg arrangers because they are the closest thing to the Genesys in terms of concept.
They integrate workstation and arrangers.

I don't like touch screens either...I'm sure they serve most people quite well, but I don't like the tactile response(or lack of it)

So the Genesys has extensive synth engine editing capabilities?

I understand it is a pro level arranger.

How much poly does it have?

There is another thing to it, i know by heart few of Korgs machines, Triton line, PA line, M3, the HI based line
of synths...now, the Engine on the PA2X/800 as James said it exceeds even the engine on the M3 itself,
forget about the older models but even the M3 is in trouble. M3 has 2 oscilators to create a sound, there is
sub oscilators too, as lower and whatever but i am talking about REAL oscilators cuz PA has lower too which
will then make 36 Osc...on the other hand, the DNC on the PA kills most of the sounds on the M3, there is no
Guitar sound on the M3 that can come close to the Guitars on the PA...and other stuff too...

The thing that I tend to feel about the issue (arrangers vs. WS's) is that neither profits from trying too hard to be the other...

When I use an arranger, I don't WANT the flexibility and power of a full WS. Yes, I want enough power to tweak what it comes with to better suit my taste, but if I want to create utterly new sounds, if I want the ultimate sampler, if I want to create studio ready masterpieces, I think the WS and the VSTi setup are the correct tool for the job.

In all fairness, even with Korg's PA2X, we are really comparing its' capabilities to a decade old WS. It really doesn't have a fraction of the power or capabilities of the M3, let alone the Oasys. It's based on a Triton, for Pete's sake, and a Classic, at that (no tubes in the PA!). No Karma, no arpeggiators, and REALLY convoluted audio loop playback...

I tend to want to use arrangers strictly for live playing, or in the studio as a scratch pad for songwriting, or for whatever sounds are ALREADY standout. If I need more than that for a recording, I've got the Triton, K2500 and a bunch of VSTi's. But there's no way in hell I'd want any of their complexity and flexibility on stage...

We simply seem to be divided into two camps. One wants the arranger to be a FULL WS as well as an arranger, and one that wants the arranger to focus on JUST that... And, I'm sorry, but it appears that the WS hybrid crowd is by FAR in the minority. Case in point appears to be the Audya, which appears to concentrate ENTIRELY on being an arranger and nothing else. Which, if it does that ONE task better than anything else, still makes it a great (albeit expensive) arranger. So WHAT if it only has 48MB of sample RAM? Probably 99% of arranger users don't use a sampler live. The whole POINT of the arranger is that everything you want is already in ROM, no load times (can't wait 30 seconds in a fast paced show while that custom crumhorn sample loads! ). For most classic music (jazz, rock, oldies, acoustic music, etc.) most of the TOTL arrangers already have GREAT samples, some of them have pianos that rival TOTL VSTi's, for heaven's sake! All adding a sampler to the mix does is rack the price up for something nobody uses live (OK, almost nobody! )...

Arranger users and players are getting fewer and fewer. To be honest, the people that are most into the PA2X for its' WS abilities would be better served trying to get more arranger-like functions added to the M3 (a combination of Karma and styles would ROCK!), which already blows away the PA2X for the functions they feel most important. But while the PA2X works SO hard at trying to be a WS, its' paltry choice of three fills for a four Variation arranger show that it has forgotten about what arranger buyers bought it for in the first place. Yes, DNC is great, and once Korg develop a set of samples that leverage it to its' best (like Yamaha have with SA2) it will finally open many eyes, but first and foremost, the styles' divisions have to connect well.

Three fills is so EIGHTIES...!

Soundwise, I have no problem gigging live with my G70. I haven't found anything yet (and I do a HUGE range of material on it, from jazz to contemporary top 40 to reggae to country) that I couldn't get 'close enough for live'. The things that I feel could be improved aren't detail editing, but things that would make live playing more powerful. Like my Chord Sequencer, or linked SMF and arranger sections, seamless changing from arranger Modes, things like that.

If I need to modulate the speed of an LFO from how many notes I am currently playing, or use one LFO to modulate the waveform of another, I've got a Kurzweil for that But you won't see it onstage with me...

I simply think that we should let the Audya be ab ARRANGER. Bitching at it because it isn't a WS, while there are still things it needs to do to be a better arranger (like not crash!), and especially in light of Ketron NEVER going down the WS hybrid root just seems so pointless.

Well with that all said ....
At this time the Yamaha S910 is the best MOTL arranger on the market and the Eagles Won Big Time against the Giants today!!

Hi Diki.



Basically you don't know what you want.

You want flexibility, but not too much



No..... I was answering the question directly about Audya VS Pa2X and I only used workstations as a point of reference to demonstrate just how much more advanced the Pa2X is.

Anything Nedim said was just an extension of that just to drive the point home of just how advanced the Pa2X is. There's also no rule saying we can't talk of workstations in order to help make a point.



No ...Go back and read my last post because I've already explained all this and how this benefits even people who have no intentions of ever programming so much as a single sound.

You have missed the point on that one.



There's no excuse, 48 MB is pathetic for countless reasons with the main one being that it's a premium priced keyboard. Premium should mean premium features.



Arrangers will have no problem surviving and it's clear to see that people like KORG have already started to make sure that's the case. The lines between their arrangers and workstations is very blur right now and with the resources Yamaha have you can bet that when they feel the need, they can quickly adapt too.

So I wouldn't be too worried about arrangers.



Well that's because your using mainly bread and butter sounds and you don't have any major need for complex sounds. Same goes for the likes of Yamaha and the Tyros series. Rather than developing a new technology like KORG's DNC, they will just keep on flogging their AWM2 engine to death because every time they add a few more Mega Voices they can use that as a huge selling point. Pisses me off actually when that's the sort of thing should come on a CD-ROM for the sampler.



And your against having features like that in your arranger ? I don't see the point to your logic at all.



No... it's the arranger that's still missing in this arranger.

Regards
James

Just as a general comment I'd like to throw out there to everyone.

It's not contest of mine is better than yours, and there is no such thing as a universally better keyboard regardless of how advanced it is.

We are all musicians here so I don't have to explain that music is from the heart to you guys, so just remember.... Technical specs are fine and all that but, the instrument you choose is supposed to be the best one that allows you to express what's inside you. That's the most important factor. Technical specifically are no means to measure how good that keyboard will be at allowing you to express yourself.

We have all different needs guys so the best advice I can give anyone is go with your heart after you do your homework on what's available. Test the hell out of them all too.

The only thing that matters is what makes you happy most and what allows you to express your music as best as YOU can.

Regards
James.

What? Now you tell me this after I've just sold all my Yamahas and bought one of them there Korg sympathizers.

Some charismatic Korgian leader you turned out to be.

Beware the Casio.

And be careful, I think FransN is on your side.

It's part of an old Jedi mind trick KORG thought me. Tell them they don't need it and they will want it.