I went to Guitar Center the other day and they had the T3 on display, priced at $4599.

All I can say is that the keyboard really does not impress me. Not enough change from T2 or T1 for that matter.

I could never use a Yamaha, particularily with only 61 keys.

I guess I am still a spoiled Ketron owner.

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http://www.esnips.com/web/SongsfromDanO

I didn't realize that the T3 was that expensive. I thought it was in the upper 3000- low 4000. $4599 is only a few hundred less than the Audya. oh well, mid range keyboards are starting to look better and better.

It seems rather appropriate to have the words "spoiled" and "Ketron owner" in the same sentence, made even more so with the introduction of the Audya....actually, "ruined" might be a better word.

A 61 key fully working arranger (any brand) knocks spots off a 76'er that's nearly finished.

Using clients as Beta testers is hardly "spoiling" them...it's more akin to "violating" them.

It's long time since there has been a keyboard intro that has been so poorly done...let's hope it's an even longer time before it happens again.

It has been a truly heartbreaking story, since the instrument did/does have great promise, and sounded pretty darn good.

Back in the day, Ketron surely made some great products....now it's a company that deserves careful watching...literally.

Ian

Well I'll probably get flamed again for saying something bad about a keyboard, but in all fairness incremental upgrades should never be allowed by the end users.

For all that's new in the T3 the majority of it could have been sold on a memory stick for 100 bucks.

Seems to me Yamaha dropped the ball altogether after the awesome PSR9000 Pro. Not much has changed since then which was a LONG time ago.

Mega Voices, Sweet Voices and all that are not new technologies. They are just regular samples people load into other keyboard day in day out. Yet Yamaha wan't you to buy an entire keyboard rather than a CD to get this data.

Yep, you're right James...Yamaha is a wise marketer...they've been in the game over 100 years...they even bailed out Korg, sometime ago, and since you're a Korg user, you should at least be grateful, if not impressed.

Incremental upgrades (actually, much more than incremental, but we'll use your word for now) are nothing new with Yamaha...but, say what you like, the method has been very successful.

You don't make any profit giving away "new" features, but you do make oodles when you sell "new" keyboards.

If it seems stupid, and it works...it probably isn't stupid.

Yamaha has quite obviously learned from their mistakes...let's hope Ketron has the finances to stay afloat long enough to learn from theirs.

Ian

[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 11-19-2009).]

Hi Ian.



Yeah, respect where it's due, Yamaha sure do know their market like the back of their hand.



Fingers crossed here for sure. If they can survive the Audya and complete it, then I feel with the next keyboard we will get back the Ketron we have all learned to love and respect.

Until then a rocky road lays ahead for them.

Regards
James.

I think Yamaha must thank Korg for teaching Yamaha how to build a good workstation. And Yamaha need more lessons from Korg on how to build a good arranger keyboard.

Those days are well and truly over now I think. KORG haven't even purchases so much as a keybed off Yamaha since the OASYS 76 a few years ago.

Can't see them ever going back to Yamaha for a keybed now either when the Fatar designs they have are so much better.

The entire Pa and M Seires are all fatar.

James

I'm sure they might be very grateful, Frans, as Yamaha does make exceptionally good workstations.

It makes everyone feel all warm and fuzzy knowing that Korg was rescued by Yamaha, and nice to see that they've sort of repaid the favor.

I'm sure Yamaha and Korg are busy teaching each other how to make great arrangers, and we both know that healthy competition is always beneficial, especially to us arranger users.

I'd love to be able to try out a Korg arranger, but they are seldom seen in my neck of the woods...no doubt they are great instruments, as most of the users on this forum seem quite pleased with them.

What do you play? You sound like a Roland user to me.

Ian

Ian I play a Korg PA50 now and will change to a Korg PA800 next month. I had a Roland the GW 8 before the Korg but didn't like that. Therefore I always played Yamaha. My last Yamaha was the psr 730. Great keyboard. But like James said after the great psr 9000 pro they didn't make keyboards anymore that I like.

[This message has been edited by FransN (edited 11-19-2009).]

Actually, I wasn't too fussy about the PSR-730, and I think Yamaha really came to the top of their game with the PSR-2000/3000/S900/S910.

Nowadays, a mid-range keyboard does so much, that it's not necessary to buy a TOTL instrument.

The PA-800 seems to be a great instrument...there are few users on SZ that are very enthusiastic about them.

I'm helplessly hooked on Yamaha, especially the PSR-S910, although I think Korg's idea of the PA-588 would be something Yamaha should seriously look at in terms of an 88 note portable arranger.

Skinny it up a bit more...down to about 30 lbs, and stick the S910's innards inside it...plus use Yamaha's Graded Hammer action like on the very successful P85 digital portable piano.

They certainly can learn from one another....no shame in that.

My 1st arranger was a X4500 ( PSR4600) and there are some things that I have liked about Yamaha. I miss the dynamic arranger feature.

I guess it all goes back to what sound you like and Yamaha hasn't been what I want.

I think 76keys has more versatility.

I am not an Audya owner. I still have my SD1 at home and a SD1plus at my Church. I will get an Audya one day, but waiting for the OS to stabilize.

So when I talk about being spoiled, it really is just my opinion of what I like sound wise.

Yamaha doesn't sound authentic. Until Friday !

Yes I also was hooked on Yamaha in the past. Still a little (the motif )
I have listen to the s910 and this keyboard sounds really good. Only I miss something in the drums and basses. Did you listen to the demos of the Korg PA 500 Muzikant Ian? Maby something for next to your S910. A great combi I think


[This message has been edited by FransN (edited 11-19-2009).]

Ah well Dan, you win some, you lose some...name of the game.

We all know what kind of sound that we want to hear coming out of our speakers...yours is Ketron...mine is Yamaha.

Authenticity has been the foremost reason why I use Yamaha arrangers....but, that can mean different things to people as well, but it's me I have to please.

Bottom line is to use whatever instrument that inspires you and makes you want to sit and just play...I'm very happy with my little PSR-S910...it hits all the right buttons...I like it more than the Tyros3, and that's saying a lot, as the T3 is an impressive instrument.

Like the Korg arrangers, Ketron instruments are very thin on the ground in my region...they could be more popular further west, but in the Maritimes, the arranger of choice is Yamaha, followed by Roland.

I've never seen a Ketron, let alone played one...hopefully someday I'll have the pleasure.

Ian

Ian, I seem to be forming the opinion that you have an affinity for things Yamaha. But, you know, you need to get away from that frozen outcrop. Can't you get Yamaha to swing you a trip to Tronna on some ruse, and then you could slip away at nightfall to a Korg dealer and try a Pa series board for real. You'll never be the same. Play Sonny, and have your dream come true, bye!

I hope you'll gather that the foregoing is written in jest.

Yeah, I know what you mean...Yamaha has a more compressed sound than other arrangers...I just happen to like that sound...it works very well for my needs, and I like how it sounds in recordings.

The Korg PA-500 demos you posted are excellent....an impressive instrument, and indicative of the power of MOTL arrangers...again, I have no way of trying out such instruments...I was looking at the Roland GW-8/Prelude, but until they add style assembly to the OS (necessary for my needs) I'm going to wait.

I may be making a fairly lengthy road trip in the next few weeks, and I'll see if I can find a store that handles Korgs....if anything, they should at least have a PA-500.

Ian

I'd get away 124, but I'm frozen stuck to the ground...colder than a mother-in-law's kiss here last night.

Actually, I love anything that sounds good. I used Roland arrangers for many years, and I have a Roland synth (Jupiter 8) that I love...I also played a few Technics arrangers, back in the day, and they were very impressive...definitely ahead of Yamaha (and Roland) at the time.

I may be doing some extensive traveling in December, so I might be lucky enough to find a dealer with Korg arrangers.

The local dealer sells Korg digital pianos, and I believe they had a few workstations....but, no arrangers. Not sure why.

I did try out a Roland GW-8, but only briefly, but I still liked it a lot...I'll be keeping an eye on it's OS progress.

I'm very interested in the allegedly super duper Casio that is supposed to make an appearance next year...I used their pro synths CZ-1, and VZ-1, and their sampler, the FZ-1, so I know they are quite capable of making a high quality "pro" instrument.

I hope you realize how difficult it is to play with mittens on...of course, I come up with some pretty wild chords.

Ian

I remember those...they had the roll bars under the keys, in front...very futuristic looking...there was a PSR-4500 as well, but the 4600 was the better instrument by far....they used DASS synthesis, and they were great sounding instruments.

Still, the E-series, from Roland, was very popular...they just sounded better, especially the styles.

Come to think of it, I do remember playing a Korg...it was an I-series...an I-3, I believe...61 keys...it had a wicked Sax sound, and the styles could easily be revoiced...you could have a big band arrangement of a heavy rock style, or a rock band playing a Viennese waltz.

It was my only experience with things Korgian as far as newer arrangers went, although I did play an SAS-20(?) that was a trade in at the store where I worked...it was pretty cool.

Ian

I went to Guitar Center the other day and they had the T3 on display, priced at $4599.

All I can say is that the keyboard really does not impress me. Not enough change from T2 or T1 for that matter. Dan 01

The Tyros 3 keyboard (and this is about me) can not be played, I think the expression is out-of-the-box and be appreciated. My knowledge of the Ty3 keeps growing and I now understand perimeters/features of this keyboard they are amazing. The possibilities seem unlimited, my sound keeps improving as my knowledge improves. I am more than satisfied with my Tyros3. I do not need instant success, I need a keyboard keeps me involved, that keeps my interest, that keeps me growing, that keeps opening new horizons. Of course this is based on the fact that I no longer play out.

IMHO, John C.

PS, the $4599 price is the highest I have ever seen the Tyros3 offer for.

I got invited to a Tyros 2 launch party. I was able to play a PSR2 or 3k, Ty1 and Ty2 in quick succession.

I'm a 2k / 3k owner. I can live with the rubbery keybed although it's not a strong point of thed keyboard!

I thought the Ty1 keybed was very lightly sprung and didn't like it at all.

On the other hand the Ty2 keybed was much better and I found it instantly just right to the extent that I could coax some very nice noises out of the SA voices almost immediately.

I can't comment on the T3 but I'd hope its the same as the T2.

Incidentally I've got 2 Italian build Ensoniqs (ESQ1, SD1) both of which use Fatar Keybeds which are built like brick outhouses and have never caused me a problem.

I had an Ensoniq SD1 and played it for years without a problem. the guy I sold it to has been playing it 3 nights a week every since and no problems.
I still have the Keyboard sampler EPS16 + and it is also one tough keyboard too.
I play the E 80 Roland and the Tyros 2 mostly now days.
Bebop

I wasn't a fan of the Tyros1's keybed either...but, the Tyros2 and Tyros3 use the same FSX keybed, which feels very nice.

The SA2 voices on the T3 respond beautifully to the FSX keyboard...definitely one of the instruments best features.

Ian

Personally I feel that the T2 and the T3 were way over priced compared to the s900 and now the s910. You clearly got more bang for the buck of the the PSR-S series vs the tyros 2 & 3. I found most of the better sounds, styles and features were already on the s-900, anything more would have just been a waste of money.

I agree. In retropect, I wish I had bought a s900 instead of the then flagship Tyros 2. With the money saved I could have bought a very good PA system (like 2 Bose compacts) or maybe even another mid priced arranger like a Korg PA 500.