Good imput, 124. Playing sessions or section work where all parts are charted is easy for me, and BORING!

"Creativity" is one of the most misunderstood concepts in the communications business.

The loose interplay...that unspoken communicaton that results in a unique, fulfilling performance Diki describes is, to me, the ultimate.

And, while I understand his humble placement of himself in the array of top jazz players and the difficulty/competitiveness, I'd jump on the bandstand with him in a heartbeat.

Thing is, many players don't really need to be creative to feel fulfilled or to get the job done. Playing a variety of types of music is not always creative. Same thing with some of the top rated photographers and artists I've worked with in my time. Some are good at the mechanics of drawing a perfect picture or setting the lights and camera settings to get EXACTLY what is required. And these "linear thinking" photographers, artists and musicians fill a real need in the world.

But that's not what the folks like Miles Davis of the world do (or did).

To me, the exact tempo big band work of the past would have been like working on an assembly line.

Different strokes, for sure.


Good imput on a subject with no "right" answers, all.


Russ

And I still say that playing with others is the cure, NOT getting a different arranger.

I'm not sure, Diki, but for the most part I believe the vast majority of the Synthzone's active participants have been in a band at one time or another. I've been in a couple really good bands, one for more than five years, and yes, we had fun. And, like many here, for one reason(s) or another, all of which have been posted in the past, we opted to go the OMB route.

The players that play ballroom dance gigs every week, often a couple times a week, do a job that I could never do. To me, playing the exact, same songs, week after week, after week would drive me nuts.

For those that need to be reinvigorated with their arranger keyboards I suggest try learning new songs every week. If that doesn't work, learning how to create voices, styles, and learning the inner workings of your keyboard can be quite challenging.

Cheers,

Gary

OMBs are much more convient for everything including practice learning new tunes dependability ect.That's all Im saying. Some musicians are good some very good some like Dexter, Coltrane, Rollins, Tyner, Petersen, Jones, Zoot etc. are great. Most will never reach their calibre.

I still like my OMB.

I'll say one thing, Brickboo, you certainly do have good taste in musicians.

chas

124 ... I find some contradiction in your statements ... First you say you can let your right hand 'do the business' and then you say there is little difference between the 'regimentation' of a chart playing dance band and an arranger ...
I realize that we may have certain limitations depending on the clientele we are playing for, but I find that the arranger allows me a great deal of flexibility in what style/rhythm I use for a song, and I can always vary my 'right hand solo' ...
BUT... as I have said in the past, I would give 'almost' anything to be playing with the band we had 'back in the day' ...

t.

For me to be as satisfied with arranger playing as being in a GOOD band (I still think that, if you are satisfied with an arranger musically, you haven't been in a band where just a look from one player to the next can elicit something magical), it has GOT to be more than JUST about me and my right hand

I expect input from my players, as they expect input from me. And you get NONE from an arranger. Sure, you can make music that SOUNDS like the band is cooking, but it ain't. It's reheated cooking. The cooking was all done in advance (usually by the style makers, not you), and all you are doing is dish it out. Your not a cook, you are a server in a soup kitchen, dishing out soup to those too poor to afford a real meal. Let's face it, how many of your audience would rather listen to a REAL bigband if they could afford to?

Most, I would imagine.

I am sorry, but one other thing springs to my dirty mind when I hear the expression 'your right hand doing the business' And I feel there's a lot of truth to that comparison. Yes, your right hand can get the job done, but don't you feel that it's SOOOO much better if there's a cute girl involved?

That's music. Better if you are not alone...

I’ve only had the time to read this thread loosely, so pardon my error if I’m “reading” it incorrectly.

Bill, I DID notice the interchange between you and Diki. IMO, you’re too intelligent NOT to see what Diki is saying. Or maybe you DO see it, but prefer your own views still? But even I have to agree with him at this point in my own career. It’s not about are you comfortable with your OMB keyboard, or are you satisfying your audience, or are you creative enough for what you‘re doing now, etc If I read Diki correctly, he’s saying that, if you make the choice to play with other musician s, they’re going to wake up more creativity inside of you. You’ll be getting ideas that you can’t get from a static keyboard that knocks out the same rhythms day in and day out. He’s NOT dissing OMB keyboards, just pointing out the advantages of working with others, feeling different rhythms and backing.

I’m really emphasizing this because he hit the nail on the head as to why I’m probably burning out and feel like quitting music. I’m thinking about the whole month of October, when I do mostly Oktoberfests with different throw-together trios and quartets every gig. What a difference in my playing and my attitude. I can work off of them, get new ideas for riffs, learn different songs, interact both musically and personally on the bandstand. In short, it “wakes me up” and causes me to see things I don’t see when I’m doing a solo. Even when I backed up that all-girl singing group at the party last week. I found myself doing things on the piano I don’t normally think of when I’m playing by myself!

Now I’ve been doing a one-man-band all my life so you won’t find more of a crusader for these keyboards than me. That is, until Diki started talking his stuff here. He really covered the topic effectively. I forgot all about how alive you feel when playing with other musicians with the benefit of increased interest and musical growth.

I produce good music as a OMB or as a pianist. The audience is pleased, the boss is pleased, and I’m somewhat pleased myself. But, if I were to move on to playing with other musicians, I can see me expanding musically again and losing that awful disease: “boring-itis” (as in You’ve Lost That “Boring” Feeling by the Righteous Brothers).

Lucky

No contradiction there, Tony. I'm simply pointing out the facility that arrangers allow and how it is up to the individual player to play the way he chooses, whether to stick to charts or to freely improvise.

We all know improvisation involves two hands, but within the context of arrangers we also know that the right hand is always going to do the bulk of it.

Lucky-

Go back and review my post where I said how fast I'd sink trying to do the omb in the jazz style. I concede completely that playing with other musicians allows for a great deal of spontaneity and creativity using an arranger doesn't.

However...

Looking only at my situation, comparing my quartet that plays "blue-hair" ballroom dances and my arranger based stuff (Solos and Duos). You commented that you liked Petit Fluer. The way you heard it from my website is the exact way you'll here it any night that we've played it over the last 10 years. Exactly the same...

Remember my situation: The band can't/won't rehearse, so there's no real opportunity to refine things very much. Also, we get a lot of praise for being the most danceable band in this area that also doesn't sound dead. In essence, its not broke, so we're loath to fix it. Perhaps back in the earlier days when we were first putting our act together we were benefiting from the spontaneous interplay between each other, but we had rehearsals then. We haven't had a rehearsal in 5+ years.

I think the kind of music my band is working in combined with our circumstances explains a lot. I don't feel very creative when working with the band. Its more about getting the tempo, groove, feel right in the room, etc. All those things, we excel at. Moreover, they (Dancers/Clients) don't WANT something different.

Gary D, & I were talking on the phone last night about this and I told him that I actually had a client complain a few months ago about a particular song. She came up to the bandstand right after the set was over and said she didn't like whatever we did to such and such a tune. The dance floor was packed, nothing had gone obviously wrong on our end. The only thing we different was we modulated for the last verse!

If I think of other bands I've played in that played different styles of music, then again, Diki is 10000% correct. They were, for the most part, more fun to be in, than what I'm in right now. But I'm not playing for college kids or rich yuppies, etc. My crowd adores us for our consistency and that's the bottom line for us.



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Bill in Dayton

Bill, just like an arranger that no longer inspires you, you CAN change players. There's no more excuse for playing with people that don't inspire you than playing with a keyboard that does the same.

They won't rehearse? Get other players. They play it the same way every time? Get different players. 'If it ain't broke, don't fix it' is fine, until it IS broke...

Then fix it.

What's more important... keeping gigs you don't even enjoy, or your musical soul? Me, I can turn the thermostat down, eat a cheaper cut, go out less often, whatever it takes. But I can't stand playing with people that don't want to be there, don't want to keep growing, and just want to show up for the paycheck. That's not making music...

That's just making money