"The Girl from Ipanema" ("Garota de Ipanema") is a well-known bossa nova song, a worldwide hit in the mid-1960s that won a Grammy for Record of the Year in 1965. It was written in 1962, with music by Antonio Carlos Jobim and Portuguese lyrics by Vinicius de Moraes with English lyrics [1] written later by Norman Gimbel. It was also famously sung and played by Jobim in 1965 on The Andy Williams Show.


And how was that made on LIONSTRACS MS:

DOWNLOAD GIRL FROM IPANEMA HERE


If somebody will have troubles with download is here

SECOND LINK: GIRL FROM IPANEMA

I know that some guys will never like it but I hope i can show you what is possible with standard things to do on MS.

I used standard GIGA LIBRARY from MEDAISTATION LIONSTRACS and LIVESTYLER with standard style BOSSA NOVA 57.

I did not improve nothing on style. I want only to show you that also with normal style is possible to play on Lionstracs.

As Mr. Abcus says ENJOY what ever you PLAY

Here, both were very distorted and no clear good audio at all...maybe it's my setup?
Lee S.

Must be your setup. Pretty plain vanilla but not distorted.

chas

Here is song made by MEDIASTATIONN and aplication LIVESTYLER. I used style


16 beat style 2


here is link

Enjoy.

hi magic alpha. that was a perfectly acceptable style. I seem to remember it from my yamaha PSR8000. That was a sweet board too.

Thank you for posting. we do seem to talk a lot about music on this forum but not play a whole lot. Cheers for this.

Do you have any examples where a style has been converted or created from scratch that uses VST sounds for each and every instrument. I am just dieing to hear someone actually use the MS this and i probably wont ever get access to one and as you are the only guy who has contributed on here regularly with music and not just words, then i guess there is no harm in me asking you. If you dont want to or you feel that people may be too hostile to it on this board then i understand. But it would be really good to just once hear the MS used in a way that no other arranger can be used.

Thanks once again MagicAlpha :-)

[This message has been edited by spalding1968 (edited 01-17-2010).]

Hi Spalding
The full version of Livestyler has a Style convertor built in, and if this is included with the MS version, then perhaps you could email or post a Korg style, and when Magica Alfa has the time he could set it up to use the MS and/or VSTi sounds, so as to show what it would sound like.
Just a thought

Bill

Try to listen some of this songs, without the Solist track and then you can start how to change the system of one man player, WITHOUT use any style or arranger. http://www.mp3panda.com/search/?text=Jamey+Aebersold

There give TON of different songs styles ( always without solist track ) that are playing like a TRUE Audio-Arranger..lol

This site link had help me to sell some more X-88 Pro, WITHOUT arranger module.
The pianist was so HAPPY to play 2 whole hands piano over this amazing song tracks.

Is time to start change the mentality...
Enjoy what you play.

is a good demo,
but if we get livestyler 11 for MS it wil give better sound. becouse livestyler 11 support FluidSynth and soundfont 2 format, http://fluidsynth.resonance.org/trac so if we have livestyler 11 we can convert all giga GM2 sounds to Soundfont 2 and hear better sounds. but do not forget that qranger wil be every day better and better. if we get livestyler plus that wil be great to, becouse then we have not only yamha style format but other brands formats to. but it is not qranger, becouse qranger is not only a arranger but it is a great song editor to.

[This message has been edited by AFG Music (edited 01-17-2010).]

Built in style converter is only with the v11 Gold which is only available on the USB stick. Which also acts as a dongle by the way, so its now much easier to run it from any PC.

Hi,
the convertor you guys are reffering to, isn't it only the EMC style conversion program except somehow adapted for Livestyler use??
If so, what would make it any better than buying EMC style conversion software for a PSR. Livestyler basically plays psr styles.
Does this software convert differently ie to GM drums instead of XG or something.??

The resulting style will still only be as good as the final tweak.

best wishes
Rikki

that wasnt the question i asked. I asked you to play any style you have converted, i dont care what style. I just want to hear it where you have replaced every GM or Giga sound in the style with a VST sound. I just wanted to hear what difference the better sounds would make to the overall impression of the style. To my knowledge i have never heard the HS demonstrated in the one way that sets it apart from any other hardware arranger.I hope it isnt too much to ask.


And Liontracs . i dont need to purchase songs to play with. I can sequence my own songs from scratch but thats not why i use an arranger.

Hi Spalding
Unless you know how the style sounds on the original instrument, you will not be able to compare it with the instruments changed for VSTi.
If you supply one of your own styles to be converted, then you will have a direct comparison.
In addition you will need to take into account the fact that the way you edit a style could be totally different to someone else. (Just changing instruments in the style will not work unless you identify the type and style of VSTi you wish to be used)

Bill

Dear,


Yes I can do that. If I will have time today I will post you example. But I can tell you that this can be totaly different.
you can play with it as many options you want. For fast changing between each track is better QRRANGER. It is more similar to CUBASE or SONOR.

Jeez... C'mon, man!

Have you even BEEN to Yamaha or Korg or Ketron or Roland's web pages? Have you heard what they sound like? For even the most determined fanboy, you've GOT to admit they sound a bloody sight better than anything posted on this thread.

I just don't get it. Why subject yourself to the prodigious learning curve a product like this is going to impose on you, if all you get afterward is something no more impressive than this? Save yourself the money and the time...

Get a V-Machine or Musebox (or a laptop) and ADD them to your great sounding closed arranger if you want great VSTi lead sounds. But until the arranger part is better than the closed one, you are taking one step forward, and in my opinion, taking one giant leap backwards.

And before I get the 'Diki hates the MS' auto-fill retorts, just do me a favor and LISTEN to the examples. Give me flack if you think this DOES sound better than a T3 or a PA2 or an Audya, will you? And if you don't, allow me my opinion (well, allow it either way, but don't go looking for an agenda My agendas sit fixed to either side of my head ), OK..?

Yes Diki you are right. On web page of Yamaha Roland or Korg, Ketron etc are great demos.

But I can tell you that I love my things also. That work is mine and it is played by MS without any change of styles or sound.

I can make also songs with V-macvhine or with with any kind of VST I want. You will never be satified. I can post you exactly same file that you made madeon G70 made by MS and you will see that is there no difeerence or only difference is in real guitarwhich is playing all the time on riff. I like your style a lot it is great SHUNSINE. Also in this case you will not be satisfied. I had


Finally I'm not official maker of demos like guys on the pages you mention that are working because that is their job.

MY records are made in max one play with style and in same time I recorded it.

I see in MS one interesting tool and that is my opinion not yours.

BR

There are plenty of USER demos of the T3, PA2 etc. which blow this away. Don't blame how it SOUNDS on your playing. I am capable of hearing the difference. The style section is very apparent and separate from the RH voices. And THAT is what I'm listening to. Go and listen to the Tyros STYLE demos, will you?

No amount of skill (or lack thereof) can change what the style section does. You put down a chord, it plays what it plays. OK, OK, you can screw up the chords, but big deal! It still plays what it plays. Judge an arranger on this feature ALONE. Plenty of VSTi players, WS's, groove boxes, etc. out there, but an arranger is an ARRANGER. You judge them on the strength or weakness of the accompaniment system.

You honestly think this compares to a TOTL closed arranger?

Thanks Diki for your report. Ok i'm not so good as you are. Ok years of playing and profi work is your brilian part but i want to see your opinion about that:


One more demo here


I hope you will enJOY.

You missed the point. It doesn't MATTER whether I play well or not. It doesn't matter whether YOU play well or not. It only matters if the MS plays well or not

BTW, that link led me to a dead link.

Did you go to the Tyros styles page?

Hey you won't get it from me on a thread that aims to discuss use of styles on the MS. It is open to anyone to state an opinion. I only objected when you tried to divert a thread that wasn't at all about styles on the MS. I thought I had made that clear on that thread, but now I am guessing it wasn't.


[This message has been edited by Nigel (edited 01-24-2010).]

Diki, have you even considered the technical aspects to what you have just heard.

It's a Yamaha style that was "untouched" playing back using what was also probably the Tyros 2 Giga Library, and on an OPEN keyboard. Does that not count for anything in your book ?

If it can sound like that with no effort at all and with the sounds of another keyboard, then can you not see how easy it would be to jump way pass a closed keyboard if a premium VSTi was the sound engine ?

I know we have flogged this subject to death, but you have to see the reasoning here.

James

If it's so easy, though, why isn't anyone doing it? There's enough of the darn things out there, isn't there?

I am not the slightest bit interested in the 'technical aspects' of a demo. Only the sound, the sound, the sound... If no-one has done it yet, if no-one has a plethora of demos that DO live up to the potential, don't you think that perhaps achieving that potential might be a BIT harder than you want to make out?

Thing is, James, if your PA2X wasn't capable of doing bass inversions (a basic function around for over a decade), I am not sure you would cut Korg the same slack you do the MS. We both know what the MS is capable of. We apparently disagree on how easy it is, and how functional it is...

And isn't that really WHY we choose arrangers?

Actually I would guess that the number of MS keyboards out there is miniscule compared with Korg, Yamaha or Roland arrangers. Wouldn't you agree?

Right...probably 1 in 10 000 others! We all know it as a fact.
How many of us on the forum have Korg? Roland? Yamaha? Ketron? Gem?
And how many MS users do i know here? Magica Alpha, Afghan and Miden (NOMORE).
Frank is a dealer, doesnt count.

Alberto, alfred, Albino, Aravantis, Bernd, Bernard, Christophe, Filipe, Franz, Giorgio, Jacek, Jaha, Jhon, Judson, ken, Karl, Long, Luigi, Riccardo, Matthias, Philip, Philipe, Ramon, Renaud, Richard...I can continue to 318 that are full registered.
all the others I dont know because are sold from the dealers...
Megaaudio already sold the Groove, but I dont know who have buy..
do you think that we have package here 100 MS only for fun?




[This message has been edited by LIONSTRACS (edited 01-25-2010).]

So Dom is making my point for me...

HUNDREDS of them out there.

Yeppp
You are right! The point was to REMOVE totally from the OS installer the Arranger module and now we restart again with the big sales!
Sounds workstation...and NOT arranger..this is what people on the world want.

You ever kick yourself for wasting four years trying to make the MS into an arranger, when it was obvious
that it wasn't what most arranger players wanted?

We tried to tell you...

It's a GREAT VSTi player. But it never WAS a great arranger.

In addition to the point others have made I also blame you. Anyone who does upload something is scared away because you cut their performance into shreds without even so much as a single consideration for any technical aspect or the effort they went to.

The people who make the official demonstrations for Yamaha, KORG and others are all professional programmers, sound designers and musicals. They are not “Just” playing the keyboard.




lol.... Pure an utter ignorance to the facts.
The mere fact that you say something like that means you lack the ability to understand or remain even slightly open minded. It's also why nobody could ever have a proper conversation with you on any of this.

I'm only wasting my time on you Diki.

If you hate Lionstracs products so much, why don't you Troll somewhere else and let others get somthing productive done here.

James.

James, I think it's kind of unfair to blame Diki for Liontracs inability to produce ARRANGER demos at the same quality level of those he is competing with. That's the manufacturer/marketer's responsibility, not the end users (IMO). NOTHING marketed to the general public should be immune from criticism and the best way to silence that criticism is to demonstrate that they (the criticisms) don't hold water. In the world of Arrangers, Liontracs has not done that. To their credit, they have (wisely, IMO) abandoned their efforts to compete in the TOTL arranger market and moved to the WS market, where their offering is probably more competitive. I believe that they will still have to come up with better OOTB content to compete with the Fantom G's and Motif XS's of this world. I believe they will end up being a niche market, much like the MUSE, etc.

In the end, I think Dom has heard the criticisms of the MS's arranger functions and moved on. For that reason, I think it is probably time to also abandon the criticism of the MS as an arranger.

Not trying to be controversial here, this is JMO.

chas

[This message has been edited by cgiles (edited 01-25-2010).]

Hello.

You have misunderstood me.

Diki's comments are in relation Magica Alfa demo and the fact that nobody else is uploading anything either. As is other end users not Lionstracs.

With someone like Diki trolling these threads, it's no wonder.

Kind Regards
James

diki,

everyone knows that your only problem with the MS are internal styles .you want domenico program styles for people like you who not like converted styles of other brands. that is no reason for people who make styles or can make styles of other brands sound good in MS by good editing functions of qranger and other MS tools. Sorry but you do not know much about style editing especially in MS. I know because you did not know you can with your roland record multiple drumkits in one midi pattern loop recording roland micro edit (sound one=basdrum from drumkit 1 + sound two= x sound from drum kit2 layerd at the same times)vThis is also in other sequencer program such as Cubase and Sonar-....................possible.

but if you do not like the styles of MS you forget the other good things that the MS have. for most user is the ultimate recording station for that price seen yet. you can record anything without used a wire except for mic or other instrument like a real guitar. virtualy everything is connectable. The only program that does well in windows is http://www.propellerheads.se/products/reason/ where everything virtual contact with each other similar, but you get what the reason is. if you like to use third-party VST in reason is not easy in reason, there for you most rewire reason used in other pragram as Cubase. This sort of thing is just much easier in MS. you can for example use MS keyboard with 2 other midi keyboards conected to the MS midi for controling two different VST simultaneously i mean:

for control of VST 2 So, 3 keyboards live in real time. if you want you can also can lock multiple USB midi keyboards and keyboards in several Reatime use. I mean M MS keybed+ midi 1=VST one+ midi 2=VST 2+ USB1+ VST 3+ USB2 VST 3 USB 3=VST 4 and........... USB7 =VST 8+ USB 8= B4 organ and, everything without latency, is that not great?

Look guys, flame away all you want. I'm not talking about (on this thread) factory demos, which tend to
be all SMF's done by incredibly talented players using the arranger's output only as the starting point for
the song (mind you, in the real world, that's a very legitimate way of using the arranger), but on user
demos, and style demos.

All I have ever done is try to put an honest set of ears onto EVERYTHING I hear. I could care less if a
demo is made on an S910 or an MS. All I do is LISTEN to it, and see if it impresses me. NOT with the
technical specs and 'potential' of the arranger. Just with the MUSIC. Arrangers are SUPPOSED to provide
a large part of that 'music', we input the chords, play a melody or comp (or both!) and the arranger does
the rest. Some of them achieve this, some of them don't. Some of them OUGHT to achieve this, but don't...

I'm sorry if you think that my honest assessment of these demos is driving people away from posting
them. OTOH, I tend to think that perhaps I am causing some potential posters to reevaluate honestly
what they DO think of their work, and perhaps decide to not post what is obviously inferior. I can't
for one minute believe that someone that HAD managed to make style demos far superior to a
closed arranger was so insecure as to not post them just because of what I would say...

And, I'm sorry, James, but I am a musician. NOT a sound designer, NOT a sample set developer, NOT a
computer boffin, impressed by the bleeding edge. The ONLY reason I play arrangers is to make music. The
'potential' of a piece of gear doesn't impress me in the slightest, at least when it is so painfully
demonstrated time after time that no owner out there (let alone the factory employees themselves) IS
capable of achieving that 'potential'.

An F1 car is an AMAZING piece of technology. Potentially, the performance to go faster than
anything else on the road. Problem is, only one in a million have the reflexes and ability to drive it, the
rest of us mortals just crash it, first turn we get to (if we are not pulling doughnuts just trying to drive in a
straight line!). Does that stop the F1 car from being amazing? Depends who is driving it.

The MS has yet to meet its' Michael Shumacher. You think you have the skills, have at it. But I am starting
to get REALLY fed up being told what this thing can and cannot do by someone that hasn't got one, and
who can't point to anyone that DOES and has achieved its' potential. How about just a LITTLE 'proof
of concept'. Or is it just a coincidence that no-one has achieved better than a closed arranger yet? 300+ out
there, no demos yet that demonstrate that any of them have achieved its' potential yet.

You REALLY got to get one of these James. As convinced as how much better than your PA2 it is...

And AFG, the whole POINT I've ever made is, all these style demos are just more proof that, yes, while
it is POSSIBLE to convert styles, it appears all too obvious that, in the hands of those that ARE willing to
post, no-one yet HAS managed to either create styles, or convert styles to the full potential of the
MS. Is it me, or is it crazy to go to the prodigious effort (must be prodigious, or a boatload of people
would have achieved it by now) of all this work, to end up with something inferior to the original?

Maybe some people LIKE tinkering with the technology more than they like making great music. I
am not one of those kinds of players, as you might have gathered Yes, futzing around with the deep
programming of my K2500 is fun now and again, but I wouldn't want to HAVE to do it all the time, just to
be able to go out and do a pick up gig... And, from the resounding yawn the MS got from the arranger
community (c'mon, just a few hundred in four years? Yamaha are NOT quaking in their boots!), I am afraid
I am in the vast majority.

The whole point you've been trying to make is, sure, the MS can play Yamaha styles. Big wup! Until it plays
them BETTER than a Yamaha, what's the POINT? If you want a few VSTi RH sounds, a Muse, a
V-Machine, a laptop, all of these do the job. But until the MS actually DOES do the job better than a
Yamaha, not 'does the job IF you are a GREAT style composer, editor, technician, computer guru, etc.'
which from all the evidence we have heard, no-one IS, why recommend something that makes doing
what 99.999% of all arranger users actually do a total PITA?

I have no agenda, no axe to grind. I am just trying to keep a few fanboys honest. The day someone posts
some style demos from the MS that makes me go 'Holy cr*p! That is MUCH better than a T3!' (and I will
if they do), you will never hear word one from me again. Other than to post my own MS demos up...

But until I hear it, until someone is honest enough to say how LONG it took them to get it to sound like
that, I still don't CARE what else the MS does. If I need a VSTi WS, you can bet I'll be looking at the MS
VERY closely. But if I want an arranger, it's going to have to be better than what the closed ones do. Dom
has already axed all arranger development, so best of luck getting Bass Inversions out of it, not to mention
all the plethora of other things that caused Miden to give up on it.

The MS as an arranger is dead in the eyes of its' creator. And I sure as hell didn't kill it... What's left to
blame? Because it sure looks like you are looking for SOMETHING to blame for its' failure.

Ok every time you find something that you want to find. Yes you are right styles that I made with sounds from closed keyboards I will not post any more.
That was point of this topic.
Also I wanted to show you that i can make same sound as you are have on G70. With my last demo that you did not received. But I will not post it any more, because you will not like to listen your keyboard on other machine.

I will post things that I like to do with my MS. But please - this are totally different things that you want to listen from MS.


New songs will be on SZ when I will have time to make them.

Diki I can not convince you and nobody else. You are right - you can have your opinion, like I have mine.

BR ENJOY WHAT EVER YOU PLAY.

[This message has been edited by Magica Alfa (edited 01-26-2010).]

One thing that people had problems understanding about the MS is that integration was and still is the selling point of the MS.

When I hear people say that they have a lap top, VSTs, a workstation and arranger so why do I need an MS, they really do not understand the point of the MS.


And I am sorry, the demos did show the full potential of the MS. You had users making the MS work for their use.
You may not understand it or like it but it is the user the one to be satisfied.

And, the point of making or modifying a style is not to sound like the manufacturer. If one wanted to do that they should use the manufacturer’s styles.

If arranger features are being taken off of the MS, its not the concept but Marketing, Marketing Marketing.
The MS just did not have a good PR and Marketing strategy.

I never said it is supposed to sound LIKE the original. I said it's supposed to sound BETTER... So far,
no-one's even achieved 'like'.

And about integration... It is a piece of CAKE to integrate a laptop or V-Machine to a closed arranger,
compared to making the MS's arranger section the equal or better of the closed ones. Yes, you have the
parts better integrated than separate systems. But when the arranger section of the MS is such a dog,
you are taking one step forward, and a giant leap backwards at the same time. For people who don't
really CARE what the arranger section sounds like, works like or how much work it entails to better (or
even equal) a closed arranger, you are good to go. But for the vast majority of arranger players that all
they want to do is add some good RH VSTi voices to their already very good closed arranger, I would think
that the MS will be nothing short of a nightmare.

All I have been hearing are bad dreams, anyway...

[This message has been edited by Diki (edited 01-26-2010).]

Diki, if you actually listen to what is being said you won't have to repeat yourself all the time.



This is exactly what I'm talking about. You come straight out and say that you don't want to know the technical aspects, yet they hold the answer to the questions you ask.

How on earth do you expect the demo posted to sound better than the original keyboard when the style and sounds used are sampled and extracted from the original keyboard.




lol... Yeah right.
Lionstracs products and OPEN Labs products are the ““““ONLY”””” systems that offer full control over the VSTi. A V-Machine requires banks and patches to be setup though a PC application called VFX. You then sync the V-Machine with the PC which gives you those banks and presets as sounds on the move away from the PC. To get everything running on the V-Machine and VFX in the first place, you need Wizard files. So you won't be running anything SM Pro Audio didn't write a Wizard file for. I love my V-Machine and I would have nothing but good things to say about it, but it's not the “Free all your VSTis” SMPro advertise it as.

Muse Research is the same kind of system. You can only run what applications compatibility has been added for.

So Open Labs and Liosntracs products are the only products in existences right now that give you true and 100% access to the plugin with no need for wizard files or compatibility to be added.

Throwing a laptop into the equation still means you have no custom OS that integrates everything, or dedicated systems / controllers.

If only you would step back and actually take into consideration everything presented to you. Dream on I guess.

James

The day YOU take this seriously enough to USE ONE, I will take it seriously. Honestly, James, how can you
keep spouting this stuff when you have no idea how hard it is to do?

It's simple. I'll keep it to small words. The day that I hear stuff done by real users on an MS that blows
away the T3, PA2X, etc., that will be the day I start to believe it all. NOT the day anyone tells me it OUGHT
to sound better. The day it DOES.

Point me to where this is, James. AFG. Bueller.. Bueller... Bueller..... . . . .

Just to put your mind at rest, and to save you repeating yourself as much as I have to, let me agree
with you. The MS OUGHT to sound MUCH better than anything else out there. It OUGHT to blow every
closed arranger away. Its' capabilities and potential are light years ahead of anything else out there.

Now point me to someone that HAS achieved that potential. Save yourself the tedium of answering with
the same points over and over until you can...

And, to answer your point about the V-Machine, Musebox, etc., you see, with a closed arranger AND a
VSTi player, all you generally need are some decent RH sounds, you don't even NEED to try and integrate
the closed arranger's style section. It ALREADY sounds better than anyone has achieved with a soft
system. THAT was the point I was making. Your PA2 has all the MIDI it needs to send the bank and PC#'s
to call up what you need, IF all you need are a few decent RH sounds. Heck, it's what you are using now,
isn't it (what ARE you controlling the V-Machine from?)?

It just seems absurdly obvious that few if any (I sure haven't heard anyone yet) are capable of unleashing
the potential in the MS. Certainly no-one at the factory can, and no user I've heard yet can. We both
have VERY high expectations from this thing. But you appear happier that no-one has achieved it than I do.

Just as I wouldn't want to take an F1 car into town to pick up groceries, I wouldn't want an MS to do
arranger gigs on. Not when it's about a million times easier to jump into an Accord...

Don't TELL me I'm wrong. PROVE to me I'm wrong.

[This message has been edited by Diki (edited 01-26-2010).]

One of the reasons why some people just don’t get the value of the MS is that they are applying the wrong standard to the arranger section of the MS.

The standard is not whether it “sounds” better than a T3/PA2xpro, (what ever that means because that is very very subjective) but it is whether the user can customize the arranger section to his or her playing style and gigging market.
And once you customize the arranger section to your needs, then you can integrate other sections of the MS to work seamlessly on your gig.

There is a reason why it is called a “Media Station”.

Really it is for those who incorporate covers and originals, styles, mp3s, midi files, audio, video and midi on their gig.
Integration can not be overstated when we talk about the MS.

So that some people can understand the concept of Integration, take for example some one who use to use a keyboard and a drum machine. Now, instead of having both a keyboard and a drum machine, they can have it all in one with some more features in the form of an arranger.

Lets say he got a T3. Do you think that person is going to go back to the keyboard and drum machine because the Yamaha T3 drums suck?

Quite true. As yet, though, who has posted anything where they DID customize it to their style and market, unless, of course, you mean lousy style and undemanding gigging audience? You see, that tiny phrase 'once you customize the arranger section to your needs' is the crux of the whole thing. It appears that no-one has done this yet, at least not to my obviously undemanding tastes (after all, I'm fairly happy with a G70 ). No doubt PA2 or T3 users would put an even HIGHER standard on that arranger section!

And, if no-one has achieved it, what chance is there that it is actually easy to do? Slim to none, IMO...



Well, firstly, if the guy bought a T3, he presumably thought the drums DIDN'T suck! At least, not enough to not use. But if he did, he would have got a PA2 or a Roland or an Audya. All good closed arrangers. But the MS's arranger section is a joke. Even its' 'features'. No Bass Inversions... they missing on YOUR arranger? Didn't think so...

I said it earlier, I'll say it again. Is the value of integration worth putting up with a very inferior arranger section? No other arranger from ANYBODY makes you come up with the content, sounds and integration yourself.

Personally, I don't believe it is. Unfortunately, the majority of those that believe this integration IS worth the effort haven't actually BOUGHT one, and tried to quantify that effort for themselves, and seem bent over backwards making excuses for those that HAVE tried to do it, and failed (by any reasonable degree of expectation) to achieve results superior to a closed arranger.

So I ask again... What is the easiest way to integrate a few VSTi RH sounds with a good arranger section? Personally, I don't believe the MS is the way to go... But I am CONVINCED that, if the MS arranger section had STARTED out as good as a PA2 or T3, and THEN all the other goodies were integrated, it would have dominated the arranger market and everybody else would be scrambling to copy it.

And they certainly aren't doing that!

DIKI THE ARRANGER EXPERT


Bass Inversions


You know very well Live-styler. I thing you are expert on it.

But I'm really sorry if you do not know that there is

BASS CHORD

There are a lot functions connected to the buttons and you can use more things as you can thing about.

Diki is talking about the native arranger on the MS, which is totally useless as far as "standard" arranger functions.

Live Styler is add-on software that HAD to be introduced as the MS arranger was so bad. Even DC admitted as much.

And even then, LS is pretty ordinary on the MS, with quite a few styles glitching out, particularly the "busier" ones. Which is to be expected really I suppose, as it IS another layer of software running via the Windows emulator (W.I.N.E.) Which adds its own issues as well.

Ahhhh... Finally the voice of experience!

Closed arranger users post music. Open arranger users post SCREENSHOTS! (or bad music!)

And here is where we differ. You say no one has customize the arranger section to their needs. In fact that is not true. There have been many post where users have customize the arranger section to their needs. Not to mine or your needs or taste but their needs.


And, the person buying the T3 may think the drums suck but is willing to take the time to edit them to get them sounding to his liking. He will do that because the T3 integrates SA voices, mega voices in styles, OTS and lots of other things all in one board. It beats having to midi a drum machine to a keyboard.

It is the same concept for some one having the MS. The arranger section may require customization but integration with audio and midi parts for styles, audio and midi sequencer, VST and lots of other things all on one board is a grate incentive. It beats having to midi an arranger to a workstation and connect a laptop to that set-up.

You've got to be kidding, right?

You are honestly going to tell us that the effort of customizing an MS is no more than what most users put in to customization of their closed arranger?

Pull the other one, it's got bells on it...

There is a TINY minority here at SZ that even assemble their own 'Frankenstyles' out of pieces parts of other styles they have. Then, of THAT tiny minority, there's a tiny minority that actually program styles from scratch. And then, out of THAT tiny minority, there's an even tinier minority that create from scratch the sounds that the style is played on....

Give it a rest guys...

Let the guys who actually have an MS SHOW us how easy it all is, eh? Still waiting. At least for something superior to a closed arranger.

Good advice.......especially since the machine in question is no longer an arranger, is not being touted as one, and no longer marketed or sold as one. The guy (Dom) even went so far as to remove the arranger section to avoid/stop the criticism; looks like even that extreme measure failed. Guess he'll have to do a Toyota-type recall of all models with this feature along with any and all old print references to this feature........OR, he could move his whole operation to Japan, install a chord sequencer, re-brand it as a RolUnd, and start over. Could work.



chas

While Diki believes that the world of music revolves around Florida and the style of music he plays, then he will never understand what the MS is about, (His loss) however as others have no problem using the MS to produce their country’s style of music, (Including styles to THEIR taste) and are not tied into to Diki’s centre of the universe stance, then life will continue, and Diki’s ranting’s can be ignored, as like everybody else he plays a very small part in the world of music.
Opinions are fine so long as the person making them doesn’t try to make them out as universal fact.

As I have mentioned before, Nigel has set up a dedicated forum for the MS, so items directly related to the MS would probably be better posted on there.

Bill

While I agree that the discussion of the Mediastation AS AN ARRANGER has probably gone way beyond it's shelf life, I have to take exception to the implication that Diki's musical range is limited to Florida 'beach music'. ANYONE that can play Wayne Shorter (Weather Report) has demonstrated for me that their talent, ability, and musical interest, goes wayyyyy beyond this small musical niche. If you're trying to make a living in Rome, you gotta' play what the Romans want to hear. Doesn't mean that's where your musical interests stops.

chas

Diki.. you laugh..but you make laugh only the Hens..

I made right now extra a demo video to probe that the mediastaion or groove can still play styles-arranger..so..there you can finally stop with this arguments. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRizzk-DA0c

you can only continue blame me now about the audio recording with the MIC camera, BUT I don't have at all to prove there HOW the ASIO host, Giga sounds, players..have good audio quality, you can test yourself.
I leave the all others brand to prove HOW they new sounds are good for try to sell keyboards.

So...all you guys give a look of this demo video and then we will really see HOW TO EASY IS ALL!
Booting the OS, running the STYLES and some more multiple ASIO Host,Giga..by pressing just one key is really EASY. ( you can see there that I NEVER have used the Mouse, qverty keyboard...as the others PS system)
IF you are NOT able to press the KEYS sounds engines in realtime, then I really don't know who you there are able to use one embedded keyboard...

My system here will only prove how easy is loading new sounds engines and play the all what you want.
The new OS 4.0 now is totally performance to the new Mainboards and AM3 CPU, for that finally we dont have anymore startup issue, just look the all video available that I made before on OS 4.0 web site.

About the Livestyler...
We know both that the Yamaha VST is really a toys, BUT on my system, the possibility are endless.
You dont like the yamaha VST sounds?
buy this module: http://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/CDA/ContentDetail/ModelSeriesDetail/0,,CNTID%25253D1444%252526CTID%25253D206700%252526CNTYP%25253DPRODUCT,00.html
Connect the Midi OUT of the MS to the MU100, Audio Outs of MU100 to the MS audio inputs and connect by Jack inside the WHOLE audio system.
Live-styles can be set to the Midi OUT and select the MU100, you will have this all sounds integrated on the system.
Also, with the key PATCH 9 and 10, you can ALSO use the MU100 sounds on the keyboard, like the all ASIO host, Giga and so on..

At least: is NOT more superior to ANY closed arranger or embedded workstation??
Just let me see what you can make better with your.....???
Enjoy what you play...

Dom, you've got to stop making Diki's case for him . I realize what you're trying to demonstrate, but based on that video, you probably won't get many converts; at least, not from people used to Rolands, Korgs, Yamaha's, Ketrons, or even Casios. I'm sorry, but the demo was so bad that it probably wiped out any chance of showing off any of the keyboards good qualities. BTW, why are you still demo'ing the kb's arranger functions? I thought that approach had been discarded. Frankly dude, in the words of the American Idol judges, "that was not good". Sorry.

chas

Chas...remember that I don't have to convince you at all! You can enjoy the keyboard that you like and play what you like.
Fortunally megaaudio don't care at all what you think...
http://www.megaaudio.de/newsletter/news/Liontracs_News_Dec09.html

Nice Boxes,

Does every MS come with OS4 loaded on and who sell them in the UK, how much in the UK, can we see someone play a tune all the way though without having to load patches and press button it worries me it might lock up with OS4.Just a thought! BTW boxes on the floor are no good to anyone they need to be out there in the market, If I was your sales manager I would be kicking arse!

Cheers

[This message has been edited by Tony Hughes (edited 01-29-2010).]

Tony...the all box and containers are already OUT on the worldwide market: http://www.lionstracs.com/store/information_pages.php?info_id=23

A new update: http://musik.messefrankfurt.com/frankfurt/en/exhibitor.details.html/mega-audio-gmbh.html
You can come visit us at the musikmesse and test yourself the Groove.

Not idea how much will be cost the groove on UK, megaaudio is the exclusive ditributor for the whole north Europe.

Dom, I wasn't criticizing you OR the Mediastation. My criticism was of the
DEMO, which seemingly (and surprisingly) was still trying to tout it's strengths as an arranger (a function most of us thought you had abandoned). I wish you nothing but good luck in your venture, if for no other reason than it might encourage others to pursue this approach to WS integration. Competition should improve the breed.

chas

If you agree here is

JAM FOR DIKI

I hope Diki that you will find some place inside in this file.

I would realy like to Jam with you and your G70 if you like. Also other SZ friends welcome.

In this day and age I applaud anyone who try's to do something new rather than leaving it to the big manufacturers. Its so hard to move in Europe due to ROHS, WEEE, CE and so on. I am not familiar with this instrument but I can see why you have your work cut out, not just the hardware (which is a feat in itself), but getting all the software to work together too. It's not my cup of tea, but it is intriguing.

the challenge was to make the MS/Groovebox or whatever sound as good as or better than the 'closed system' based arranger keyboards. The theory was that by having the benefit of all the best sounds, and style conversions software like Live Styler and an integrated OS that it would be a piece of cake to achieve and leave the big 3 in the dust. I hope Megaaudio are not monitoring this thread......genuinely i do.

Leave the techno bable to one side.....what did your ears tell you folks ?

Can we say that the horse is now dead and its just plain sadism flogging this old nag anylonger.

Magic alpha i see what you are doing and i have plenty respect for your work. Can you explain what it was that we were listening to ?

I mean was it a style you made or was it a sequenced jam ? Were you using sounds that the MS came with or were they external sounds you purchased or sounds you sampled and tweaked yourself ? I could tell you had fun putting it together. Thanks again for posting up your music.

Yes this is style from MS it is named ACID Jazz. I put it in qrranger with audio wave.

You can hear voice of some girl on intro 1, than i put inside sound of VST SUPERWAVE P8, and Trancer and P80, I use drums ADICTIVE Drums, and riff of guitar That is VST REALSTRATO wit additional COMBO.

Inside are also some sounds of GIGA GM BANK like TRUMPET, BASS; BRASS, HARMONICA; GUITAR.

A lot of things is played by styles, but I use also right hand with COMBI sounds.

There in right hand are 8 split points from C5 on. I use mix of VSTs and GIGA GM sounds.

And finaly I use one new VST that I found out this is EVS 2. This is great tool for composing new sounds.

So that is my setup of 1 minute. If you like it or not i can show you that all in my MS.

BR

Magica you most sai that you did use OS 4.4 or not?

for members who did not like the video, you want that domenico use a full HD handycam with MS output direct to a mixer then from mixer to the cam input!

then wil be the sound better, but you liked or not, the MS sounds great whean you used your self. but again you can do everything with this boards, lets begin with FX effects and other settings like EQ........, if you do not like the factory settings you can make a ton of you settings and save it and load back in realtime. the best closed arranger wil totally sounds differents from one user to the other becouse of the FX and EQ .........and other settings. if some one created style or gig live he wil know what i mean BY this. some times you make this settings at home but on gig you wil see that your settings are not good. do not sai that factory settings are always good becouse that is not real. every setuation needs differents settings. with wrong settings you can make the best sounding closed arranger sound bad to. if you have good musical ears and taste you can make MS for every setuation sound good by save easy your settings. the demo from DOMENICO was not to show how THE GROOVE sound but to let diki and others that lionstracs arranger option is not dead but alive. remember qranger is day by day better and better.

[This message has been edited by AFG Music (edited 01-29-2010).]

unfortunately the last thing Doms Demo did was show how easy it was to make a style sound good. One thing that i keep asking and which seems to be skillfully avoided is how easy it is to assign different sounds to the arranger elements. Ie different instruments than the Giga instruments that come with the keyboard. I have seen lots of right hand instrument changes that were less than smooth but at least i know this can be done.

Have any of you MS users programmed your keyboards so that it can bring up one touch settings so that at the press of a button you can switch from one style to another with set ups that yopu have made yourself instantly and can anyone demonstrate that ? I am not looking to stir up anything. I just would like to know if it has been done and how easy it is to switch from style to style with instruments other than the Giga set.

If i have missed a demo where this was done can someone point me to it ?

On Qranger you can create unlimited BUS Midi Outs ports.
Each BUS midi OUT port can be connected where you like on the all available Midi Inputs: asio, Gigasampler, Rom..
On qranger tracks preference you can assing each midi tracks to the desidered BUS midi OUT and the desidered midi channels.
Same also for the audio tracks, you can create unlimited audio tracks and routing to the esidered outputs.
Qranger MASTER audio out include the elastique pitch shift, so the all audio tracks routed to this out port will be transposed when you change the chords pitch.
All the tracks routed under Drums mode, mean that wil never transposed.
here a shoot:


For the other feature that you have request, we use the Performance burn system.
It mean that you setup the all pannel how you like and the OS will burn one image setup of the whole configuration.
Note: all the multiple asio Host used on the performance must be running, the performance system will NOT launch the windows application but only setup the sounds/program change.

Hi Spalding
The speed of change when using external sounds on any software instrument is determined on whether the sounds are stored in Ram or have to be loaded from the HDD, if they are stored in Ram then the changes are instantaneous, (Just as any voice on your PA1x) however if they have to be loaded off the HDD, then there is a delay (Dependent on speed of disc) while the sound is located and loaded into Ram.
Most VSTi these days allow pre-loading of sounds (The number of sounds being dependent on a combination of Ram size, CPU speed and HDD speed) into Ram so that changes can be instantaneous. (Third party hosts can also be used to pre-load sounds)
Note: Some older VSTi were designed purely for computer sequencers, and were not very effective when used live, however since about 2004/5 (When even cheap computers were really powerful) most VSTi have been optimised for live On-stage use, as well as for computer sequencers
Hope this helps

Bill

No offense, Magica, but if you want to jam with me, you MIGHT need to leave just a LITTLE room to play! There isn't room on that track to slide a cigarette paper in there...

I'm sorry, but once again, the 'integration' fails to impress me. There are some things on there that sound pretty good, but there are some things that sound pretty underwhelming, also. Also, as crowded and busy as this style is, it's hard to imagine what on earth this would be good for... The more stuff you layer in (possibly because, the rhythm alone by itself leaves you wanting?) the more you obscure the basic sound quality. I'm sorry, but it's much harder to make something simple and convincing, especially acoustic based music, than it is to put together this 'polyphonic spree'

And sorry to burst anyone's bubble, but my musical tastes run from Bach to Bjørk, from Bob Marley to Bob Dylan, from Joe Zawinul to Joe Strummer. All good to listen to on a beach, though, if you are lucky enough to be on one...

I think chas is right, to be honest. I no longer have any interest in this topic. I shall simply let those who actually HAVE an MS make my points for me...

LOL! Now that would be a novelty in this forum. Topics actually being written into the dedicated forum section, instead of throwing it all on the huge pile that we call "General Arranger Keyboard Forum", which consists of reports on medical conditions, repeated ranting about other people's choice of keyboards and discussions about Apple's new iPad or the weather in Minnesota.


------------------
- THE DUTCH KEYBOARD FORUM
http://www.keyboardforum.nl
Happy owner of a Roland E-80 V2

And yet we keep coming back . In my case, I'm afraid I'll miss one of Frans 'reviews' or one of Dom's 'demos'.



chas

Oh yes, we are. Every once in a while there IS a topic that's actually interesting



------------------
- THE DUTCH KEYBOARD FORUM
http://www.keyboardforum.nl
Happy owner of a Roland E-80 V2

changed my mind with this post. Decided it wasnt worth the effort. sorry for wasting the space.

[This message has been edited by spalding1968 (edited 01-30-2010).]

[This message has been edited by spalding1968 (edited 01-30-2010).]

Magica which O.S did you use for the last demo?

I think you should make a demo that is simpler. simplicity is the beauty in style creation. how busier a style how more unrealistic it sounds. make a style with live drums and guitar loops for each pair chord. Please do not get me wrong. you can load a style in qranger editor and instead of the midi drum loops, use real live drum loops. you can do this also with guitar track. you can also supplement with some human sounds.

one of the nice things is that in qranger more than one track for audio loops can be used in any style pattern.

Os is 4.0.


I can say that is faster and with it we can do more. Yes AFG and Diki You are right: to many sounds inside make mass, With that demo I want to tell thet is possible to make many things with one machine. There is only your needed your idea.

Also in my demo is some space but for Diki playing is never enought space . But for any kind of word Diki is first .


But as you say AFG all simple solutions are better. I agree with you.

Live drum loops are great. I use seperate bass drums, snare hh and toms so usualy 5 separate wave. That is working fine. Also effect on them is possible to set.

I'm not so familiar with guitar riff as audio. I'm studing it long time. But belive me when I will make one than I will make a ton of them. I was with my guitarist in touch long time about that.

Other possibility is with Virtual guitarist. But flexibility is not so good as I want that need to be. Changing between some styles in this case is only manualy.There in virtual guitarist is not working SYS EX.

I like also way with REALGUITAR. That is like midi and we can change in any chord in simple way.

I got back only one bad replay because sound was not so realistic. Diki know this demo well. I respect Dikis thinking. So I'm studing new solutions.

If somebody is having some idea about real guitar please let me know.

Thanks.

oke, here one free idea for guitar tracks, lol

if you can use realguitar verry good, then you can play on your keybed and record the sound as a guitar audio chord loop. and you can so make a ton of chords. it wil sound better then midi recorded guitar. one other idea is have good guitar player and use a midi guitar and conect that with the MS to play chords for you and record that. one other idea if you are good guitar player, play on you guitar and record chord loops. this can be done on qranger, or you can use other editor like sonar and after you have your chords use qranger editor. there are many ways to do this

[This message has been edited by AFG Music (edited 01-31-2010).]