That lack of frugality is what has sent the world into an economic tailspin, made over 10% unemployed (the figures for full employment are a disaster) even here in the US, and brought great harm to the reputation of the captains of finance that told us to do JUST what you are telling us. Spend more... you deserve it/need it/want it/should have it...

All the time, ignoring that what we have is just fine.

Anyone with even one eye open can see the writing on the wall. What we are doing is unsustainable. Diminishing returns, and exponentially increasing consequences. But yeah, that new guitar NTT is a MUST have!

Me indulging in what I want for myself is hardly injurious to society...if I couldn't afford it, then it would be a different matter...the cost of an upgrade works out to less than the price of a Tim Horten's coffee a day...hardly tailspin material.

The people who bought beyond their means still had a choice...the banks, and whatever, made it easy perhaps, but the customer who does not look into things fully before they sign on the dotted line, has no one to blame but themselves.

Ian

Wow, this is a great discussion but Ian is right when he echoes what I have always said, that is, personal philosophies are valid for that individual but not necessarily for everyone else. 'What's good for the goose is good for the gander' only works for you if YOU'RE the goose.

Since Ian referenced us, I can say that I don't think Russ or I strictly fit into either category (frugal or spendthrift). Both of us buy a lot of stuff but not much of our 'discretionary spending', aka toy-buying, is spent on constantly updating the same old gear (tyros2 - tyros3, PA1x - PA2x, etc.). I get much more of a kick out of buying something completely new (Nord C1, Fantom G, DM10 drum kit, about to buy a Handsonic 10, etc.) than upgrading my arranger to next model just for the sake of a few new voices or styles (in this sense, I agree with Diki). I want something that makes me think about music in a new way, or gives me an appreciation for an area or aspect of music that I've spent 50 yrs. ignoring or taking for granted. Just going by the music posted here, arranger music doesn't even remotely sound like non-arranger music. I'm not saying one is better than the other, I'm just saying that I prefer one over the other, even if it's not as 'polished'. It just sounds more 'honest' to me. JMO.

One thing I don't agree with. Diki thinks the result of our not buying new (arranger) offerings would be that the manufacturers would scramble to put out bigger, better, more innovative stuff (to win us back). I don't. I think the result of that would be a repeat of what happened to the home organ market; it would go the way of the dinosaurs. Of course, this is all speculation. In the end, our own personal philosophies and buying habits are what will drive the market and the direction of the manufacturers. Drip, drip, or one big gush; it doesn't matter to me. I'm looking for the best price on a Handsonic and a Mic that'll make me sound good. On that last one, I'm waiting on a recommendation from Fran but obviously he hasn't found one yet .

chas

PS: Fran, if you read this, I'm just kidding .

Good post Chas. I don't agree with buying for tiny upgrades, but in my case, upgrading to the S910 gave me two great B-3 emulations that I positively love...I even find myself playing my old Hammond licks when using these sounds, so they are good.

It saved me the cost of getting a clonewheel for the several organ tunes I play, so in a sense, I'm actually being frugal.

One "philosophy" does not work for all, but we can take bits and pieces of another's if they are helpful in our own lives.

BTW...I just got (today, actually) some great MP3's of Jimmy Smith's The Sermon, volumes one and two complete...and they included the liner notes and some biographies (and pictures) of the cats who played with him...I'm really lovin' them...he sure was a master of the B-3.

Ian

Ian, not that it matters, but I thought you didn't have to pay for your Yamaha.
DonM

That he was, and it's very gratifying to me to see the current masters of that style of organ playing, Joey D., Tony Monaco, et al, pay tribute to the 'original'. He revolutionized jazz organ and made an indelible mark on the jazz world. I think that he, more than anyone, (re-)popularized the Hammond B3 and made it an enduring part of the jazz and rock lexicon. Enjoy your 'new' albums. They'll always be THE benchmark for jazz organ.

chas


[This message has been edited by cgiles (edited 01-20-2010).]

If I only use the instruments for Yamaha work at home (demo rehearsals) and for demos/clinics, they don't cost me anything...I just send them back when a new model comes out.

If I'm using them for personal use, as in gigging, I have to buy them...I get the employee's discount.

Usually, if I really like an instrument for gigging, I'll buy it right away, as I never know when it will be recalled/replaced. I bought my last three samples...the PSR-3000, the S900, and now, the S910...the latter is the best overall arranger I've ever had, including the T1, T2 and T3...it just feels right. MOTL instruments are no longer a penalty to play/own, and only purchased because the TOTL was unaffordable...I bought the S910 totally on choice.

Ian

Lately (the past few years), I have been feeling guilty about spending so much on "toys" when there is so much need in the world (like Haiti, right now).

I now use a factor of 2X. When I buy a toy, I send 2 times the cost to a deserving individual or organization. In fact, I'm seriously thinking of selling off lots of "toys" I never use and donating the proceeds.

At my stage of life, that would make me feel good.

But don't worry; I'll still find the time and funds to......PLAY! (and get new toys).

Russ "big kid" Lay

That's true about Arpeggiators/Karma Diki (OH how I would LURVE some Karma... ) but the PA2x (and the PA1x) does indeed have Loop slicing and matching and triggering - I do it myself at gigs for Dance Remixes of songs - however, the problem I see with the Korg is :

All that power (editing, sampling & such) and too much complexity in achieving it!

(and not enough RAM really...)

I wish the PA series was a little more User Friendly - like the Rolands actually!

Or maybe I'm a little dim when it comes to grappling with OS's......

Well, ANY keyboard with a sampler should IN THEORY be able to do synced audio loops, but the difference is, take a look at any WS that does this... It has a whole graphical section to do exactly what you say you need - make it simple, make it easy! Plus pads to put these loops on, to allow you to 'play' them. They also have pitch and speed independence made simple, and then contemporary loop manipulation tools like slicers and 'stutterers', easy filtering for the loops, you name it.

No matter HOW you slice it ( ), modern arrangers don't have a fraction of the tools that modern WS's do...

Perhaps Roland's SEEM easy to use because they don't have some of these modern tools (no sampler, for instance), but I have to agree that some of the things they DO have in common with other arrangers, they somehow do manage to make them much more intuitive and easy to do...