Hello Everybody,

I'm learning piano for 4-5 years and my gf gave me a PSR-S910 for Chrismas, a real nice gift that i like a lot but there's somes bad things also.

Let's be positive and start with the good; This keyboard is AWESOME, there's hundreds of sounds, real nice synthetizer engine.

You know Yammie called them Super Articulated, Cool voice etc... Theses are nice, the sounds ex: a Sax are normal but if you push hard on the notes (work better if you selected the keyboard touch as easy in the menu) to start with then the end of the sax sounds become l different, more high, like when you want to push the note higher to jamm ... Real Nice as i said

Function: this keyboard feel like a starship, there's zillions of function, filter , effect, possibility (i'm sure someone with a good imagination can do soooo much with this keyboard)

possibility: Midi In/Out, many many connectors, can play mp3, a Micro + effect and more and more (can't seems to get to know all this keyboards and i'm one of the biggest computer geeks you can imagine hehe)


Now the Bad hehe

The keybed: that is one crappy peace of S.... it's incredible to see a crappy thing like that on a 2K keyboard, the key feel cheap and not solid and too short; i hate this keybed and still wonder how i will become zen with it

No after Touch, no velocity release and too short keys, this is verry crappy from Yamaha parts...

Yamaha i know you are reading this forums and seriously guys you have the marketing all wrong, did you ever ask yourself how much sales you loose (and clients) because of that ??

why not put a decent keyboard with a nice after touch, wouldn't cost a lot and would be a good marketing move even if you add 3-400$ on the price to cover the cost and make more profit. ask yourself if you prefer to hear rant like that on your keyboard or something like "He i buy a yammie keyboard and now Yamaha put some incredible keybed in it, even more awesome there's aftertouch and velocity release wow, the feeling of the keys are so good... this is definitively the brand to buy if you want a good MOTL arranger !!!

After 2 weeks i had to buy a little controler to fix this so i can do a better keyboard with it.
used for 300$ http://alesis.com/qs62 and have all what i rant that the PSR don't have...

If i got it right i will be able to assign the modulation to the aftertouch so the psr see it, but we'll see when i get it in 2 weeks

maybe i will remove the 2 case + the PSR keybed to put the 2 together in a new case (nahhh) hehe

So as a conclusion this arranger is nice but yamaha are still stuck on old marketing way and we feel it when we play this keyboard...
again Yammie start putting somes quality keybed in your arrange and more important stop seling us stuff with crappy part in the hope that we buy your TOTL arranger... 2K is suppose to buy you quality stuff not crappy keybed. Anyway you WILL have to make the move to User oriented marketing (Asked the permission to talk to your client and stop interrupting them) or you will loose lot of moneys and market share in the next 10-20 year; btw you have the permission to talk here and it's what you should do if you want to take the big part of the market.....

We'll see in 10 years who is bright and who is not

Have a good Day Everybody
Omeada

It's too bad the PSR-S910's keyboard isn't satisfactory for you. I'm a big fan of the S910, and a chose it over the Tyros3 because I prefer a light and quick action on an arranger.

If you've been playing piano for 4-5 years, it's no wonder the keyboard feels strange to you.

You might have been better off with a CVP Clavinova, which has weighted piano keys, but it may be out of your price range.

Mid line arrangers, including Korg PA-500, Prelude and your S910 all have lightweight actions.

Ian

Hi MJ- Have you had the chance to compare the Yamaha to other brands in its price range? I understand it was a gift and all, but if you don't like it you should return it.

ianmcnll, The tyros 3 have a nice keybed, like it but in Cad $ it's something like 5500$ , it's way over what it's worth for this keybed thing alone...

and yeah you'r right, all the motl arranger have this kind of keybed so it's not just yamaha problem, i wonder when someone in one of the 3 big will figure that it would be great for them to be the the first to produce a motl arranger with a nice keybed (aftertouch and velocity release)....

tyros 3 and pa2xpro don't have velocity release right ?

montunoman, i did try a pa2xpro, was nice keybed, didn't like the sound bank that much and was 4.5K$ wich is 2.5K$ + of what i paid...

and the thing is that like i said all the other part of this keyboard is fantastic, don't want to get rid of it and it's the reason why i did buy a little used keyboard to use as a controller for this one (will be also use to go gig with a real band or as a controller for my MacBook Pro with Logic Pro 9 + native instrument Komplete)

The hacker in me can't stop saying how he could put a new keybed in the s910, i wonder if i will do it, could be a nice experiment hehe

Oh things changing soooo slow sometimes, we're still stuck with lot of old ways but that is improving that is improving

Take Care
MJ

p.s. thanks for the nick Montunoman, way more shorter

He Mystic Jammer why not trade the Yamaha for a Korg PA800. Then you will have aftertouch and better keybed but still lightweight action. Maby the best option is to trade it in for a Korg PA588. And if you play a Korg for a week or so I quarantee you will love the sounds. And there are tons of sounds available on the internet. A big Pro of the Korg PA's is that it is also a full synth.


[This message has been edited by FransN (edited 01-23-2010).]

It's hard to say when or if they will...it might not be a cost factor, as many lower priced synths from these companies have aftertouch, although it's mostly the higher end instruments that have release velocity.

I used to use a P-85 piano for a controller when I wanted weighted feel (soon to be the new P-95), but I never missed aftertouch all that much.

Ian

Actually, hardly anything has release velocity, these days. It didn't turn out to be that useful of a feature (hard to control) and next to nothing allows you to do anything with it...

Just what WOULD anyone use it for? Altering the release time of a sound? Trust me on this one (I've used keyboards that had it in the past), it is VERY hard to train yourself to not only hit the keys with the correct degree of force, but now you have to learn to LIFT your fingers just so, as well. This one gets relegated to the 'good idea, bad idea' bin, IMO.

Mystic Jammer, welcome to the forum. Your post sounds similar to many others including myself who have talked about the keybed of the PSR series arrangers. For me it's come full circle. I started with a PSR 3000, then in the course of a few years I went to the Tyros2, then the Roland G70, Korg PA800, Korg Pa2xPro and now the S910 ( I still have the Pa2xPro).

I've been thru the same regarding keybed, I never liked the PSR series keybed because I played piano most of my life. I use to actually take 2 keyboards to a gig with me, an 88 key Casio Privia PXR410 and the PSR 3000. I think that lasted for all of 2 months and thought I gotta be out of my mind doing all that extra work carrying an 88 note controller for the PSR 3000. From my point of view the perfect keyboard arranger would be the guts of a Yamaha Clavinova CVP 509 in a portable form factor. I think we can forget about seeing one of those, so I work what works best for me, right now the S910 and a Korg Pa2xPro. ( never take both to same gig). 95% of what I'm doing is assisted living/senior/nursing home type gigs. Most of the facilities I visit I have nice piano sitting in the same room where I play, so it all works out.....play a few instrumentals at the piano half way thru the hour long the rest of the time play/sing using the s910 .

I'm curious of knowing what Stephenm5 and other that had/have the 2 think of the sounds on korg vs Yamaha, do they have all theses articulations and all ?

Here the pa800 is costing a lot more than the 910, at least another 1000 so maybe somes day but as i said i didn't find any great sound in the pa2xpro (maybe it's me, didn't took that much times as the salesman wasn't nice..)

Diki, i like hard thing, that's the way you build stronger being and maybe you right maybe they are not usefull but aftertouch is another story, very fun to use

Stephenm52, i wonder if you miss the after touch when playing the s910 vs the pa2x and also what ratio you use theses when you go gig ?

at the end there's good probability that i will just do abstraction and "forget" about this but still, that would have been nothing to put a semi weighted keybed + aftertouch (just my view)

Have fun
MJ

[This message has been edited by Mystic Jammer (edited 01-23-2010).]

Yes Korg also have articulation they call it DNC. Both Yamaha and Korg keyboards has pros and cons. Korg has better drum, bass and synth sounds while Yamaha has better woodwind sounds but this is all personal.

That is expensive for a Korg PA800. I can get one here in the Netherlands for 1900 Euro. The price of the PSR s910 is around 1800 Euro but at some places the Yamaha is already dropped to 1650 Euro.

MJ ditto to what Fran's has stated. I have a tendency to use the Pa2xPro at cocktail hours and the Yamaha at the senior gigs. They are both great keyboards but in different ways. It's very a personal choice. One real plus for Yamaha is that there are plenty of 3rd party styles available for their arranger series. Check out psrtutorial.com Lots of good info there.

The main difference between DNC and SA is that DNC came out AFTER the PA2X was released (an OS update), so there aren't any samples in the PA2X designed SPECIFICALLY to leverage the new capabilities, unlike Yamaha, who have SA specific samples designed especially to work well with SA and SA2.

I am disappointed that, with Korg GIVING AWAY quite large sample libraries with the M3, high quality Oasys based stuff, that they haven't yet come out with some specific sampler loads to leverage DNC yet. It seems such a waste to have the capability, but not the content to show it off. Especially given that, unlike Yamaha, you CAN edit and create new DNC content and use the sampler to load it in...

How long has DNC been out now? It's over a year, isn't it? What is taking Korg so long? Make DNC sounds as good as the SA2 ones, and the Tyros3 has some SERIOUS competition.... Until they do, it's DNC... whatever!

People in the Middle East (see youtube) only buy Korg. So I think the Tyros 3 already has serious competition

Nothing wrong with competition...it always benefits the user.

The Tyros4 will no doubt raise the bar again, as did the PSR-S910.

Competition is always welcome.

Excuse me for my ignorance, but what's wrong with "The Ultimate Wondermachine" Tyros3 if there is any
need for a Tyros4 to "rise the bar" again ?

Cheers
GJ

Well Jonny, you know there's always room for new features, sounds, etc.

We said the same thing about the T1 and T2, and Yamaha managed to find some more goodies for the T3.

Ian

Mid east /east Euros use Korgs/used to be Roland, and Solton(ketrons) in general.Why?
sample loading and user styles written by local dealers/sharing.

Yamaha however rules in Anglo and asian world(where more pop , western covers than ethnic music is played).I'm talikng about Malaysia, Indonesia,Japan, Fillipines etc (not China(newly)India where they use more ethnic sounds/styles like mid east). Mostly where 4/4 straight pop or rock oldie standards.Add that to biggest 3 rd party styles on the planet.

If that was the reason they also can buy a Tyros 3 who also can load samples and user styles. No the main reason is the superior drum and bass sounds on the Korgs. The total sound of a Korg PA is much thicker and sound more live then a Yamaha and is ideal for oriental music. You can ask them yourself.

[This message has been edited by FransN (edited 01-25-2010).]

I'm willing to bet Yamaha sells more arrangers overall than Korg PA series, when you include the PSR and CVP lines along with the Tyros.

Tastes differ...some like the Yamaha sound, some like Korg, some like Roland...and some like it in the pot nine days old.

Ian

Korg sounds /hardware are ofcourse better, workstation quality with full editing.Not to mention better VH.I don't have to ask any body beacuse I 've been there and also played both types of music for more than two decades.Tyros with sample loading can still underperform even an old PA 50 sound and punchiness wise in general.

But where does Yamaha shines?
Better user interface(thay put more money on screen than keys, no double button pressing like Korg to go to style/sound choice)
Yamaha style programming and fills/SMF and style sync/ Styles that fits most songs

Korg other wise in general more has recognizable intros/brass attacks/busy fills (taking directly from famous songs ) and also fills are less in number in Korg than both Yammy and Roland.

If you do sequencing, SMF playback as your main act (just overdub playing over a seq's track) Korg is better because it's more a playback machine.

Yamaha shines in using the arranger to record current 4/4 hits without in your face repeated intros and fills. Sequencer in no where close to Korg or Roland (it's just a song recorder) , but for the western musician who need the most current arranger playable 4/4 songs, without having to worry about unbalanced fills(muting tracks and unmuting tracks during fills), The bottom line , if your work is mostly arranger live play, unfortunately Yammy is the only choice we have because competition doesn't want to listen.

This issue has been discussed alot.
Read my following posts, even though we have new models, 90% of the rule still continues. http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/Forum37/HTML/008710.html

http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/Forum37/HTML/012806.html http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/Forum37/HTML/013462.html " TARGET=_blank>http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/Forum37/HTML/009086.html http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/Forum37/HTML/013462 .html



Remember as you know Pa2x has Pads that play loops (Yammy has been doing that before PSR2000, It was a OS update in PA 1x, PA80,50 couldn't do that).New PA series also have song book which Yammy lacks.

Most Yammy sounds are thin, yes.
(I'm talking about XG backed style dept, not Mega Gtrs or SA saxes).

Most Korg styles are not as useful as Yammy for US/UK/ or their music players all over the world, yes.
(I'm not taling about contemp or rap styles wasted in Korg than techno or Ibiza styles , where Yamaha does decently in those.Listen to Pa2xs dance/latin styles and 910s .Sing along with them,Imagine requests that need instant arranger play, the choice will be pretty clear, if you are a singer who wants to use an ARRANGER STYLES for most live play, Yammy is the choice (too bad that VH is not as good).

How idiotic is to put a 70's disco style with Billy Jean bass line for the whole song? Latin Rock style is a copy of Santana's smooth with same brass falls /fills.How many time can you play smooth but not Blk magic woman? PA 80's styles and I3 format continues. (great sounds/ not so useful styles).


Yamaha excels in Ac gtr/ Bass/ Drum simple strum combo types with not too in your face fills which is ideal for most mod tempo/sing along music.You'll be using the same style(intentionally generic) in a few songs without the audience starts to notice it.Not so with Korg whrere background signature lick/ in your face fills will make you to hesitate from triggering it agian.It will fit just one song perfecly but just one in most cases.


Yammy will always outsell both Korg and Roland and getaway with cheap hardware because they did and are doing RIGHT in style and on the fly OS department.At the end of the day if you need instant song creation for current hits (western music 4/4 types, not 9/8 mid east stuff), to save time people will buy MOTL yammy arranger like 910.
(and add that to cheaper but more powerful KORG workstaions like $800 Triton Xtremes which will sound better in a seq'd track than Pa2x in any given day).



[This message has been edited by jamman (edited 01-26-2010).]

Since when was sales numbers any indicator of quality?

McDonald's probably outsells everyone in the hamburger universe. You going to tell me that McDonald's make the BEST hamburger in the world?

Exactly my point. Mass sales/business planning make Mc donald to take more than 70% of the GLOBAL market where BK is like 12% IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY.

You're right, they don't necessarily have to indicate anything but success for the company.

It still boils down to personal taste and how well the product succeeds in meeting the needs/wants of the users.

Ian