Hi Guys,

Been a while since I've posted here and I hope to start rekindling my love all things keyboads so much so that I've purchased a Tyros 3 which is hopefully going to be delivered on Saturday.

It was a tough choice between the Audya and Tyros 3 but after going through every thread I could find and also listening to every demo of them both I think the Yammy will suite me better, I hope I've made the right choice!!!

Ironic to think that I started on a Yammy as a kid and stayed with each model up until the PSR8000 in which I choice to deviate from the norm and try other brands, starting with GEM, then Ketron and finally Korg so it's a lovely feeling going back to a Yammy

I still really enjoy my PA1X though so it's going to be hard to let go of that one - if at all.

I've learn't my lesson with keyboards now, it's not always about how great the styles sound, it's really about how well they have been arranged so you can play along with them, sometimes a little is a lot and I think that's one of the things I started to dislike about the PA1x as some of the styles are just too busy. I've always remembered Yammy's having great styles to play along with because they were never that complex, I think that's the best approach.

A question to those that own a Tyros3, what do you think is your most favourite part about the keyboard?

Thanks for reading
Take Care
Danny.

[This message has been edited by DannyUK (edited 01-26-2010).]

[This message has been edited by DannyUK (edited 01-26-2010).]

Hi Danny- Congrats on the T3. I'm sure you will enjoy it. It sounds like you have a lot of experiance with other keyboards so I'm sure you made the best choise for your personal needs. Keep us posted on your thoughts on your new keyboard.

Enjoy!

Hi Danny, congratulations for your purchase!

Tell us Danny, did you tried the Audya along with Tyros3? What do you think about the Audya for chosing the Tyros?

I have a dilemma as a Tyros2 owner, I purchased a Korg PA2X returning it in less than a week... Simple put, I don´t like the Korg sound (to me, since the Trinity, the Korg isn´t improved, this is for ME)
I played for days the Tyros3, but don´t seems as a big improvement over my keyboard. And the piano sound is still too weak, again, for ME.
Yes, yes, anybody could say: Why not purchase an Audya? Money, simple as that...

Thanks!
Jo

Congratulations Danny,
The Tyros 3 is a real winner, regarding individual sounds (voices), and the styles are great. I really enjoy mine.Have it for 1 month now. I used to have the Psr-S900, but the Tyros 3, with the extras, Premium voices (Trombone, PanFlute, Choir&vocals) is a complete different killer. From time to time, it's wise to pay a visit to this link,http://www.yamahapkowner.com/forum/index.php?board=90.0
Now that you have the Tyros 3. Also, feel free to take a look at some of my youtube clips: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNLwyZftWUk

------------------

Thanks for responding

Jose, I've tried the Tyros 3 but not had a chance to try Audya as there is nobody local to me where I can find it to try it. I had this issue when I purchased the Solton X1, I was going to go for the PSR9000pro at the time (as I was a little dissapointed with my GEM WK8) but the PSR9000pro didn't sound amazingly different to the PSR8000 and the X1's demo's blew me away, especially the percussions and some of the acoustic sounds were authentic compared to anything at the time, I think many would agree here too, however, I had to go through many X1's before I finally found one that worked, I think I went through 4 of them, in the end I think the stockists had to "create" a fully working one by taking apart all the faulty ones which really put me off Ketron, I was hoping it was an isolated case but unfortunately I read most people had a bad experience with the X1, eg, failing HD, speaker only working on once side, dispay was flickering and so on.

When I first heard the Audya, I was very impressed but then I was instantly taken back to the memories of the X1, I know they are different keyboards but that's the resons why I don't own a GEM or Ketron because each time I've had one they've broken down, the WK8 just completed died on me and required the entire motherboard to be replaced which would cost a fortune, in the end I had to part exchange it towards a PA80.

Hearing the Tyros 3, I think it has the potential the sound as good as the Audya and hearing it live sounded incredible however I didn't make the choice then, I wanted to be absolutely sure. Also, I am a bit rusty since I've not played properly for a long time and I think the support Yammys have is amazing.

So yes, experience is a good thing to have and I've spent so much money on these beauties, each offering something lovely but also some annoyances but if I had to be fair, the best "fun" I've had with keyboards has been with the Yammys and my PSR8000 never broke down once, the same can be said for my PA1X, I bought that from the day of it's release and I still have it in perfect condition and it's never crashed on me so that's important too.

It would be great to hear a mini review by someone who's got both and have good experience of both. Either way I don't think you can go wrong.

Oh and I agree with you about Korg, the first Korg I owned was a PA60 (which I gave to my dad when upgrading to a PA80) and to be honest you can certainly tell that the PA60 and PA1x are related! Any of the PA's that are available now don't sound any different to my PA1x, not a bad thing, just I think they've kind of hit a brick wall, something Yamaha did with the PSR series. No doubt Korg will throw something incredible soon enough!

Take Care
Danny

Hi Telmo,

Thank you for posting your demo, I was mesmerised by it, thank you I am really looking foward to getting my hands on this as you can imagine.

Thanks for sharing those links
Danny.

Danny,

How come the dealer doesn't have a T3 in stock - thats amazing with the state of business. Where re you buying it from in the UK.

Cheers

[This message has been edited by Tony Hughes (edited 01-26-2010).]

Danny is that true every Ketron you have bought has broken down, I'm worried even more now.

Tony, the X1 and Audya are two very different boards so I hope that it won't happen to you. I don't know much about the release of Audya but I remember the X1 was released without properly being tested, it was rushed out of production and it showed.

I had an X1 for a long time and never had any of the problems that you had. But every board is different. I did have a problem with the display of the XD9, it flickered but older Ketron USA, took care of it right away. I still have buddies that use the X1 every weekend since purchasing it almost 10 years ago.

Glad to see you back Danny.
I had an X1, but it was after they had been out for a year or so. No problems that I can recall.
Since then I have had SD1, two Midjays, SD5 and now Audya, with no problem with any of them, except a couple were damaged in shipping.
I've only had one problem with a Yamaha failing and that was with the PSR S900, which Yamaha promptly replaced. I've had most all the models up through Tyros 2.
I have heard the T3 a lot and it is a beautiful sounding instrument. ONe of my gripes with Yamaha is that they are WAY behind on the vocal harmonizer. It is just bad in comparison to Ketron, Roland and Korg and to just about any outboard unit.
As I've always said, the Ketrons, and to a slightly lesser extent Rolands, sound more like a live band, and the Yammies more polished, like a CD.
My experiences with Korg have not been good. I did enjoy the PA80, but the 800 I had sounded awful. They later issued a complete software upgrade that made it much better, but mine was long gone. My other problems with Korg was finding enough variation of styles and the limited fill-ins.
It comes down to whatever you prefer to hear, and to the features you need or want.
I must add that Roland has made excellent-sounding boards with lots of features. They undoubtedly play midi files best of all, if you are into that. I hope they come up with something new sooner or later.
DonM

That can be with any keyboard, Korg PA2X issues, I had a Roland EM2000 with many screen problems, Yamaha s910 has issues. No keyboard is perfect!

MC, he said every Ketron

Sounds a bit like history repeating it's self with the Audya. SSDD.

Nice to be back DonM!

I've never owned a Roland, something that for some strange reason I seem to overlooked same as the Technics, both have always been held in high regard but I've not owned them before.

Not too bothered about midi files as I tend to use them either when my kids want to sing along to a song (when they get bored of singstar lol), or if I want to learn a certain song I like to reference midi files for certain chords.

The main thing for me has always been the quality of styles that's the most important for me and maybe by the history of all that i've owned it's shown that I've tried to find a kb with the best styles but now I think it's so evenly matched, certainly I think both the T3 and Audya have great sounding styles.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Tony Hughes:
MC, he said every Ketron [/QUOTE

Have you owned any other ketrons beside the audya?

Tony, please don't let me experience of the X1 be a common issue across all Ketron's because I am sure they're not! It looks like I was just unfortunate with the X1 as I did buy the early models and usually if there was going to be a fault it would be in the early releases. After that though right up until I sold my X1 it worked fine!

As people have already suggested, no board is infallible or perfect especially at how complex they are becoming.

that's the problem with AUDYA (along with high high price)

how can one buy it if one can't try it?
maybe some people can, but ME, i need to test drive it (just like a car)

here in Manhattan, NY you think you'd find it at the major stores like B&H, Sam Ash, Guitar Ctr. Manny's (back in the day), etc.

Nope, the AUDYA's are not here in Manhattan,
Luckily i can drive to Mr. Sound,

I do realize that arrangers are not as big a market as workstations, but there is a reason, and part of it is lack of exposure and publicity, lack of clinics, etc.

Many more people probably would buy AUDYA IF they were available to play @ the music stores next to the Korg PA2X's, Roland's etc.,

just my $.02

That's the best kept secret for an ARRANGER that other companies are not getting.

[This message has been edited by jamman (edited 01-26-2010).]

I have a question. Is the T3 backwards compatible with all Yammy's including PSR's? Or would they need converting?

I have both a Tyros3 and a PSR-S910.

Both will read styles from earlier PSR (back to at least the PSR-2000), but some OTS in the PSR styles may need to be changed to the relevant voices on the T3, because the PSR do not have aftertouch.

Otherwise they play perfectly on the Tyros3.

Congratulations on your new instrument.

Ian

Hi Danny,
One word on Tyros 3 "It Works" and it does what it says it does.

Now the only other word is, I wish Yamaha would put out a major drum upgrade for the T3, its what we all want, but for some reason they havn't delivered or can't for some reason????? any one have any ideas's. its a small gripe but overall I love the T3

To be fair, I think that the companies are very aware of how their styles are perceived by their customers... it's just that they all have a slightly different customer in mind! The very same style which to a skilled player might be seen as too busy might be the perfect amount of assistance to a less skilled player.

Overall, I've always felt that Roland's styles, which seem a bit barebones to many here, are the perfect amount of room for someone determined to PLAY as much of it as they can. Yamaha and Korg, OTOH, seem a bit more determined to play much of it themselves. Of course, you go back to older legacy styles, or user styles that all seem to be fairly stripped down compared to modern arrangers' styles, and you are good to go.

But just like there's no one perfect REAL rhythm section, it's all about the gestalt of the whole thing, not just the support for the keyboard player, different people are going to find the exact arranger style thing quite different depending on how they play...

Hi Robbo, what makes you say that the T3 requires a drum overhaul? Are you comparing them to the Audya??

It's pretty easy to turn style parts off on a Korg or Yamaha and thin out the style.

On the T3 and S910, you can have the instrument remember what parts were turned off when you select a new style.

Ian

I disagree.

Using both for years, IMO
Korg styles are more busier.(unconventional fills, too)
But Yamaha's styles are simpler (with simpler bass lines too), (they have this less is more approach).

Roland's styles on the other hand is not as busy as Korg, but the style programming still need to be improved.

What a nonsense

[This message has been edited by FransN (edited 01-27-2010).]

Hi DannyUK,

I also own a Ketron SD3 Module, I can tell you that the drums kick a$# on that, so yes I believe the Audya Drums and Bass would be better, but until this illusive OS4 comes out and its well and truly tested and verified, I'll hold my opinion on that, and any way its still too damm expensive, the Audya i mean

sorry to break a fan boy's heart, but that'a a reality.

Sorry to break EVERYONE'S heart, but it's ALL opinion

And it just goes to show how the exact same thing is perceived differently by different people. To be honest, I'm kind of referring to modern styles by the big3... They have, IMO, gotten busier over the years.

And Ian, we've had this conversation before, but to repeat, there's a huge difference between turning the part off, and having the part just be sparser. You know the difference, I'm sure. Just think of some Berklee grad or shredfest student playing guitar in a band, or a seasoned studio guy. A guitar part IS being played, but the studio guy will be able to say what needs to be said in a MUCH more concise and less cluttered way.

Same thing with styles. You still NEED a guitar part, or horns, or a bass line. But how MUCH you need varies drastically for each player.

BTW, see Line 1. of this post...

I have invented the best arranger ever, but I'm not going to share

I have the benefit of having all the arrangers on display and the pleasure of playing them all.

The problem is they all have amazing qualities, and each of them does something better than the other.

I speaking for myself, but I feel I rely on the arranger to make me better instead of me practicing or learning more of the arranger and what it can do.

I'm sure we have all heard someone playing a older arranger or regular keyboard and being blown away. I know if I sat down at that board it wouldn't even come close.

So I think practicing and learning your instrument would probably make it sound 10 times better than it does out of the box.

Now buy more stuff from me!!!



[This message has been edited by frankieve (edited 01-28-2010).]

Thanks for the correction, Diki...I acknowledge your infinite wisdom (nearly as infinite as mine) and appreciate your personal opinion (nearly as right as mine).

Turning off style parts works very well for me.

The T3 and S910 are also using the new Guitar mode (NTT) in the styles...they play exactly as a guitarist would play chords and arpeggios.

Subtle, but when you play it compared to a standard style, there is a a discernible difference that is pretty cool and very realistic. Allowing the guitar parts to play on their own, they sound remarkably like a guitar player finger picking and/or strumming...Yamaha's exclusive mega voices accent this effect even more.

I believe the OP, Danny, will be very pleased with his T3 and it's terrific styles and exceptionally realistic voices.

Ian

It HAS to... it's your only option!

Maybe, sometime in the future, arrangers will be sophisticated enough to vary the 'busy-ness' of a Part, maybe even smart enough to recognize when we need it and when we don't. Until then, it's one of the unsung reasons (sometimes even unrealized) why people will prefer one brand over another. Seldom articulated, but probably at LEAST as important as sounds and features...

Yes, but a very useful one nevertheless.

BTW, I have a new Yamaha CP-5 stage piano on order for my sample account...awesome acoustic piano and Rhodes sounds, (apparently a sample and modeling combination) and new wooden keyboard...I also have a P-95 on the way(replaces the P-85, naturally) and it has a new jazz organ voice, which should expand it's usage (I'm not a pipe organ fan...too morbid sounding to me).

Never a dull moment...just gearing up for a few clinics this weekend...Christmas tour follow-up.

Plus, trying to re-organize my new PC....laptop RIP.
[Whew!)
Hope you're keeping busy and gigging a lot.

Ian

Pretty slow right now. Season doesn't kick in until March.

Not sure if I would find an organ sound that big a deal on a wooden 88... Tear your hands up trying to play organistically (my spell checker doesn't think that's a word! ) on wood

Love to hear your impressions when they arrive, though. I must say, the thing that most excites me about pianos at the moment is the V-Piano's ability to change the degree of in tune or out of tune-ness either globally or to vary it over the keyboard by different amounts. That's one of the things that has always bugged me about sampled piano sets. Always the same, every time. But sometimes you want a bit more 'played-in' sound, sometimes you want that 'fresh from the tuner' flava...

I hope this feature starts to get added to more and more pianos.

You're right on the money with your comments!!

I played a V-Piano on my tour. Pretty cool. My only disappointment was the mids, and apparently, according to the users I've talked to, it's a common complaint, and no amount of tweaking quite eliminates it.

V-Piano Evolution has released four new patches for it, but it still hasn't quite fixed the mids.

Full modeling is still not quite where it's at (but it's getting there), and a combination of sampling and modeling still does a better job, but I'm sure Roland will get it working so the synthetic mids aren't an issue anymore...mind you, it probably wouldn't be a deal-breaker for most, but I like a piano with a fairly robust mid-range (that's where I do most of my playing).

I can see the technology trickle down to their other pianos...maybe even on a new arranger.

I must say, I really liked the action and the synthetic ivory feel...the one I played was hooked up to four powered speakers...very impressive...sounded like a huge Steinway grand.

Ian

More nonsense

As well as destroying your palms doing a gliss it would be impossible to play faster riffs too, the notes won't return quick enough and the contact point will be too low.

True...basically I'd be using it more for piano, piano with strings patch, Rhodes etc...the organ would be mainly used for pads, although, I guess being used to weighted actions, I have no trouble playing fast licks on them...no different than fast piano runs.

Smears and slides are a different story, but again, they aren't a big part of my style...I'd by an XK-1 if I was that interested.

Playing piano, especially solo, on a semi-weighted or organ (waterfall) keyboard is an even worse scenario.

If I was presented with one choice only to take on a gig, I'd go with weighted 88, as I play much more piano background than organ.

Ian

Yes, more sense.

About one thing you are right Jamman the styles of Yamaha keyboards are so simple that even members of the Jostiband can play a Yamaha keyboard.

Yes they make it simple so everyboday can play. They are in the biz of making profit.

Hi Ian,
I done that too on my PA800.
Some of the styles just have too much going on.
Need the basic rhythm, but not neccesarily all the twiddly bits( for want of a better term)
I tried the country 3/4 the other day. Not really a country style user. Style had this awful finger snap or something in the percussion track. Muted percussion, now the style sounds great.
Another thing I've done is cut down on the number of bars. First 4 bars might work perfectly well for a song, next 4 something changes, no longer as suitable.

Not a singer, but maybe singers can use busier styles that don't work for instrumentalists??

best wishes
Rikki

Maybe we need something like a 'Layers' feature in future arrangers? You start out with a pretty simple part, then layer additional notes on top of it to make it busier, and give the player a control to bring it in and out at will? I know it sounds a BIT like what a multipad can do, but it's more than that...

I must confess, some of the ideas in the Audya ought to be looked at VERY seriously by the Big3. There seems to have been very little innovation for the last few years in BASIC arranger functionality. Sure, there's MORE of what we already had, more fills, more variations, more Intros/Endings etc., but there's been very little NEW added to the root functionality. The Audya's 'random' addition of extra flourishes fro time to time seems on the right path, to me.

What we are always looking for is variety, and a recreation of the 'live' experience. And, in my book, that involves some way of choosing whether you have a 'busy' or a 'studio' sideman as you play. Time for the Big3 to step up and redefine auto accompaniment, IMO. I'm tired of 'me too' features and more of the same stale pudding...

I hear you, Rikki,

My biggest issue with any arranger styles is the way the style transitions from Variation "A"(or 1)through to Variation"D"(or 4).

Most times one or two of these sections doesn't seem to even belong there, or it get so rambunctious I can't use it in a song at all.

That's why I assemble my own styles, or Frankenstyles as I've always been calling them, and I mix parts from within the style, or donated by other styles, until the style does a nice smooth and logical change from one variation to the next.

I even arrange the variations so that the first two, "A" and "B", correspond to verse 1 and verse 2, and variation "C" becomes the bridge and/or chorus, finally winding up with variation "D" for the final verse; basically the way a song is usually arranged.

I even use the intros as 4 or 8 bar variations, maybe if a song has a special section where the drums drop out or only the guitar plays...and many times I change an intro to become a fill/stop, because when you go to an intro while playing, it does it's cycle, and then the style goes back to the section you were on beforehand.

Style assembly is very easy to show someone, but very hard to put into words on a forum or in an email, so most of my style assembly/editing tutorials are done at my followup clinics.

I can spend hours editing and assembling styles...it's very easy to do on the Yamaha once you get used to it, and there are probably better style editors on the competitor's products, but, most people I show how to do the procedure, have no trouble at all afterwards...I often get newly assembled styles from my clients, and I'm happy to say, they do a great job of them.

But, there are still quite a few people who are content to buy or get third party styles rather than roll their own...many buy a new arranger just to get new styles...I only buy if I really like the newer sounds.

I think style creating/assembly/editing is a lot fun and very interesting....I can understand why you like it so much.

Ian

Ian, you could do a great service to many people if you posted your tutorial pieces on youtube, as many others have done for all sorts of things. How do you fancy that idea? I'm sure it would encourage those who wouldn't ordinarily bother or who aren't even aware of the possibilities.

I have thought about it, 124, but I don't have a camera.

I will, however, present the idea to Yamaha and see what they might want to do.

Ian

That's cool, good on ya Ian. Many small "point and shoot" cameras now have video capability. Some of them come with software that makes video editing easy.

If i where Yammy i would create a series of free video on how to use theirs arrangers, how to play with them, how to assemble styles ect..

Would create a website for it with registration and use theses contacts to send promo and "special offer" to the "Gold Members"; i'm sure it would be worthwile

See Yammy, you now own me dudes hehe

MJ

Hi Ian,
know what you mean.
Almost a case of how many different variations can we come up with for a single style.
Maybe they're trying to :
if variation A doesn't work for a particular song, variation b, or c , or d might do the trick, which is ok if the user is able to modify the style or only needs a single variation. haahaa
I'd luv some sort of a phrase data base, something similar to what the kn's had ( easy composer) basically dial a phrase.

Style assembly is brilliant ( I think it's even easier in the korg than it is in yamaha's) but there's no real way of keeping track of the phrases short of maybe creating multipads out of them. My case I have to go thru a number of similar type styles, till I find the phrase I'm after??
If you've go a simpler solution, luv to know about it.
I'm currently trying to incorporate some BIAB phrases into some styles. The 2 bar loops don't always work too well.
It does generate some interesting intro's & endings. Not on a par with arrangers , but still useable.

That's a brilliant term "Frankenstyle" luv it. Do you have any objection to me using it? Really does descibe what we do.

best wishes
Rikki

Hi Rikki,

I have done styles with as many as seven variations, using all three intros for expansion.

I think you're right about the reasoning behind the different variations in factory styles. You'll probably agree that it's such a waste to use only one or two parts of a four part style, so away we go with the editing.

I keep a bunch of styles, that have the characteristic parts I like, in a folder...perhaps one that has a great strings pad, or another with interesting phrase parts.

I'm almost back at square one having lost everything when my laptop died a few weeks ago, but I'm slowly getting things back again, and I had some things saved on a few flash drives, so all is not lost.

Certainly you can use the term "Frankenstyles"...I coined it quite a while ago, back on SVP World, I believe.

Some days, all I do is edit/assemble styles, and then the next day, test drive them, and find tunes I like to use them in.

I rarely use song specific styles and intros, having more interest in putting my own stamp on tunes.

Ian

Hi Ian,
I'd stopped visiting SVP world quite a while back so hadn't come across your term.

Sorry to hear about your laptop, such a pain having to load everything back in to a new one.
Nowadays I just load my programs in & all my files are saved to sd card & backed up on usb sticks. I've got an old desktop, an old laptop, ( either could die any minute) & a netbook which I use constantly.

I save my edited intro's/endings as a style.
Some of the korgs waffle on for 10/12 bars, so I cut endings down to approx 2 bars, means I can reuse them. Cutting sometimes works with Intro's also.

I'm still considering saving interesting phrases, drumtracks, guitar strums, piano arpeggio's as multipads.
Possibly easier in the korg than psr. Just a case of copying the style track to a pad ( & vice versa).
This way I can audition the style, mute one of the tracks , & play the pad instead of the track I want to replace.. If it works, I can copy the pad across to the style.
Should work if I ever get around to it.
Keeping track of them , may be the problem. haahaa

best wishes
Rikki





[This message has been edited by rikkisbears (edited 01-30-2010).]

Hi Diki,
interesting idea, like trigger the extra layers via velocity or something?
I'm no expert, but I still think with arranger playing you still need to have some sort of control over what you play.

SD1+ had some sort of velocity function that changed the style somehow, never could get it to work, or else it was so subtle my tinny ear didn't pick up on it. Can't quite remember what it was supposed to do.

best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Diki:
[B]Maybe we need something like a 'Layers' feature in future arrangers? You start out with a pretty simple part, then layer additional notes on top of it to make it busier, and give the player a control to bring it in and out at will? I know it sounds a BIT like what a multipad can do, but it's more than that...

My old Yamaha PSR 6700 already had something like that. How harder you play how busier the style become.

Yep, it was called "Interactive Accompaniment"...worked pretty good.

The Tyros and PSR have velocity controlled accompaniment..it mostly just gets louder...I don't use it.

Casio had a similar setup to the PSR-6700 in their CT-6000, called "Super Accompaniment" that came out in 1984, so this idea's been around for some time.

I think my old Roland E-70 had something similar.

Ian

Ahh yes Interactive Accompaniment. One of my cats destroyed that keyboard while throw up over it.

A catastrophe.

Hahaha yes.

I hear so much about how bad the styles are and nothing about how to make great use of the styles that we have. It is impossible to make styles to please all but with some adjustments and slight editing and the pads you can come up with some great styles pleasing to you.

For the “I wanna play it as is right out of the box or have to do little to use”, users They must select the keyboard closest to their liking. And that does not make it the best keyboard in the world for EVERYONE.

My opinion of the Tyros 3 --- if you are willing to go through the learning curve the keyboard can do just about anything, it’s great.

IMHO, John C.

Fran,

Never thought of that, I will try it on the Audya with a hammer, if I hit the keys hard enough perhaps it will play Dixie with all the stops out or lock up!

I was teaching a pupil who did that over a brand new Gem arranger keyboard!