Hi,

I'm curious to know what keybed peoples like and don't like so there's a little pool.

1- what kind of keybed you like ?
a- spongy and really light

b- Semi weight like korg and roland do (put a metal plate under the keys)

c- Full hammer like a real piano

2- is having the wrong keys on your dreams keyboard/arranger/synth a deal breaker ?

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For me it's
B- Semi Weight and yeah it's a deal breaker if i don't have the exact thing i want
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There's a little compilation of the answers i have done:

light keys = 1
semi (lots of fatar) = 11
Full = 2
Anything = 2

Thanks
Yvon
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www.musicienmystique.com
Keyboard: Korg-M1
Computer: MacBook Pro, 2.4 GHz dual-core, 4 GB RAM
Software: Logic 9, Kore 2, NI-Komplete

[This message has been edited by Mystic Jammer (edited 02-03-2010).]

It doesn't matter to me. I have Yamaha and I have Audya and both are fine with me. But I'm not a very good player. I don't think I would care as much for real piano like feel after using these arrangers... I probably would prefer the lighter action. Unless somebody gives me a baby grand.

To be perfectly honest, after playing the PSR-3000, Tyros2, Tyros3, Audya and E80, all in the span of a week, there was not enough difference to warrant a decision based upon keybed feel. They were all pretty much the same, and none, thankfully, was nearly as heavy as a grand piano. One day, when I get some free time, I think I'll test the pressure required to trigger a note using a strain gauge or pressure point gauge. Should be interesting.

Gary

My personal favourite keybed is the type fitted to older Hammond spinets, very comfortable with a hinge point way back out of sight, but its not ideal for Piano work.

So as a general all rounder it has to be Fatars weighted action keyframe. It very comfortable and responsive. Quite a few companies use them.

Arrangers, for me, are neither organs nor pianos, so those spongy or heavy keybeds don't work for me. The best arranger keybed I've ever played has got to be the Roland G70's - an absolutely great compromise of everything.

I feel that the keyfeel should match the instrument and the semi-weighted keybeds of today work pretty good for the synths and arrangers.

I prefer semi weight but because of not having enough money to buy a PA2x Pro I am also satisfied with the action of the Korg PA500 Musikant.

[This message has been edited by FransN (edited 02-02-2010).]

What a difference a day makes. Well, in my case not exactly a day, but a few years. When I first got involved playing arrangers, my thought was gotta have a heavy weighted graded hammer action, based on that I bought A CVP 307. But the more I played in arranger style the less important a heavy action has become.

So I'm fine with a lightweight action, although I agree with Cass I think the G70 has the best action of an arranger. If I'm playing piano solo music, in my opinion you have to have the real deal, either a well maintained acoustic grand piano or a CVP with a graded hammer action.

I sold my Samick grand piano because I was tired of having the technician in 3 or 4 times a year at $90 per visit to keep the piano sounding the way I liked it.

The CVP 307 is excellent,never goes out of tune and for the amount of time I'm playing piano these days it works just fine.

Hi.

During the years using Technics top of the line KN keyboards, the keys and keybeds always gave me
a solid and high quality feel as well as very good to play on. The only thing that "was wrong", was that
I sometimes found that it was too few keys as my right hand would not stop at the end of the 61th.
I'm not any pianist, and I'm not going to be any, but now and then (when no one here to risk eardamage),
I like to pretend I am one.

When I first played the Ketron SD1, it was the keyfeel, then the 76 keys that impressed me most. Just great!
The 76 keys on Roland G-70 is just as wonderful to play. Looks like semi weight does it for me.

Cheers
GJ

"We're only young once, but with humor we can be immature forever."

chas

You see Ian that shows how a little you know about the PA500 Musikant. The color is black.


[This message has been edited by FransN (edited 02-02-2010).]

B- Semi Weight

I dread the thought of going back to an actual piano these days. After years of arrangers, I reckon the old finger muscles will be well shot. A digital brewer's droop, if you will.

I prefer light, responsive action, certainly not weighted. However, I also prefer 76 keys.
Both the Roland G70 and Ketron SD1 and Audya work great, although my semi-arthritic right wrist knows by the end of the four-hour night that there is a little more resistance.
Only true, weighted piano action would be a deal-killer at this time, but in a few more years I may be forced to use the lightest action available, even at the expense of 76 notes.
DonM

I quess I did say something true otherwise you don't react this way. And you can't compare a 900 Euro keyboard (Korg PA500) with a 1800 Euro keyboard(PSR s910).


[This message has been edited by FransN (edited 02-02-2010).]

Behind what Ian?

I don't think I am behind. You react to aggressive. I am not the first one who said this about the Yamaha keys. Don't forget I used to play Yamaha and I have played the PSR s900. And the build quality today isn't what it was in the past. Why? I don't know.

Hi,
for arranger playing, doesn't worry me. I can adapt to any key feel. Roland, korg, yamaha, ketron, technics, had them all.

If I tried to play solo piano on a 76 note keyboard, I found it awfully difficult.
I need the feel of fully weighted keys.

Even though my CLP170 Clavinova was pretty much top of the line in it's day, it still doesn't have the same wonderful feel my ex Yammie Baby Grand used to have.

best wishes
Rikki

To keep the peace I have edit some of my posts in this thread.

You really should attribute phrases you steal...and again yet another hijack by this poster

No....

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mdorantes

Ok seem i started a little war

i'm not surprised as this post was to know more about insatisfaction like i had with my psr-s910 keybed, but now it's back to the stores in exchange with a Korg M3 (THIS is a fantastic keybed)

It's interresting to see that somes peoples like the Psr keybed and i just realised that lot of senior don't have the hands to play on semi-weighted or full hammer keybed so the psr keys are not bad for them.

I'm making the wish that Yamaha will put the tyros keybed in the psr arranger for the next generation of them!!!!

Have fun everybody
MJ

Uh, the whole purpose of quotation marks is.....oh, never mind. Why don't you just go to google and see if you can find a copy of 'Punctuation marks for Dummies'. You're likely to find this: "The yourDictionary website defines quotations marks ( “” ) as “ Either of a pair of punctuation marks used primarily to mark the beginning and end of a passage attributed to another and repeated word for word".

chas

First, a reply to the OP... G70 keybed, without a doubt. Better than ANY other 76 semi, enough weight you don't feel like you are playing an organ, rounded keys, so your hands don't hang up doing organ smears (a LOT more attention ought to be payed to this, IMO) full length, textured black notes, just the right amount of force needed to trigger the aftertouch (and not too much so you do it accidentally, all the time)...

As arranger players, we have the quandary of needing to do BOTH piano and organ parts on the same keybed. So OF COURSE a compromise is necessary, Some prefer to weight it one way, some the other. Me, I prefer to sit as close to the middle as possible...

I'd like to respond to this backbiting going on, but who am I to judge?! Just try to keep off the personal, guys. This is an ARRANGER forum, not a General Insulting Forum. Unless, of course, you feel insulted when someone doesn't agree with you...

I like a bed that when i throw my house and car keys down on them the keys don't sink all the way in, but also that they don't bounce up too hard and maybe hit me in the face. And it should be big enough to accommodate the keys
and my wife and myself--nothing worse than falling into bed and landing on pointy keys--ouch!

seriously i just don't get this post, why does anyone need a bed for keys, just throwing them down on the end table isn't
good enough anymore?

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Miami Mo

Let's get serious a bit here!!!

Negative emotions are because someone is in fear or in confusion; You can tell me that my Korg M3 keybed is crap all you want and it wouldn't make me a scratch in my emotions as i'm loving it at 200%, no fear, no confusions, it's the best keybed of the world (for me ).

But But getting personnal, saying thing like YOU are xyz in really not ok, that's just prove how the guy is having difficulty that he can't manage whitout pushing that on other peoples...

I often say that it's like dropping your emotional garbage on someone else..... and that is again not OK at all as peoples are not garbage container....

so every other keybed exept the Korg M3 is crappy and now that we know it we can be in peace together lol.

It is my view that it can be very good for everybody to talk over the differences we have.

How could i know that roland make good arranger keybed for me whitout this threads...

Take care and keep humour, it's an universal lubrifiant

MJ

[This message has been edited by Mystic Jammer (edited 02-02-2010).]

funny thing is, quite a few of the keyboards mentioned here use exactly the same keyframes which are made by the Italian company Fatar.

The only difference is the way the software is set up, Roland will respond differently to say a Ketron as the velocity curves are set by the keyboard manufacturer, not Fatar. They also make keyboards for Hammond and Korg.

A few of the current frames or on their website (but not all): http://www.fatar.com/Pages/Intro_production.htm

TWD

[This message has been edited by Tonewheeldude (edited 02-02-2010).]

Yes thats right. Korg use to have keybeds from Yamaha but since a long time now they use Fatar keybeds. Not a surprise to mention I prefer Fatar.

Use Roland also Fatar keybeds?

As far as I know....Roland still makes their key beds..

MediaStation uses a quality Fatar key bed..

The MS and G70 are by a large margin my favorite action key beds..

But with a sufficiently large order, Fatar will make a keybed for you to certain of your specifications. Want heavier weights? Lighter springs? Make a large enough order (which an entire line from a major manufacturer is), you can get some control...

The thing about a thread like this is, it doesn't HAVE to be a mine is better than yours scenario, but also, with enough respondents, we might be able to see a consensus. So, it doesn't necessarily mean your choice of keybed is right or wrong (it's your choice, after all) but it IS possible to see what the general opinion of something is...

All Wersi OAS instruments use Fatar keybeds which suit me no problem, particularly as you can alter the dynamic curve (14 settings) to suit your style of playing. In addition you can set them up differently for each layer as well as store them in a pre-set, so you can cover a lot of different circumstances.

Bill

I did a compilation of the answers on the first msg.

MJ

Most of the Roland keyboards I have repaired use Fatar key frames, have done for a long time.

Diki is right too though, Fatar will custom build frames.

What happened to Ian's posts?

I took them off Trident.

Too much nastiness...calling people's instruments "junk", "toys", "crap", is a little much.

If something doesn't meet some one's needs or is not what they like, then they should say so, but don't insult the owners of such an instrument by calling it names.

I let myself get dragged into it, and I don't like it when I lower myself to the level of those who can't express themselves any better than a nine year old calling someone names in the school yard.

That's why I removed my own childish replies, and made the resolution not to participate any more in these types of threads.

I'm not angry or upset, and it's no big deal...just something I'm doing for my own peace of mind.

All the best,

Ian

Ian, that's an admirable attitude...hard, I know...I've had to "bite my lip" and say nothing on numerous occasions.


Way to go!


Russ

Thanks Russ, I'm no saint...I can be mean too, but I really don't see the point in name calling or insulting remarks.

I can't change what others do, but I can change myself, and that's what I plan on doing.

Should have done it long ago, but I have to start somewhere, and this may as well be it.

Ian

Ok then, if it is for you and not because of somebody else.

Most of the "retracted" comments in the Zone were because the original posted wes "made" to remove the,

Yes, Trident, I chose to remove them myself...no one made me take them off.

I just didn't feel they were appropriate.

Ian

Hi Ian,
you need to chill out.
After I posted my reply, I got a bit nostalgic. Switched on my Clavinova,played a bit of solo piano for the first time in years, & joined an online New Age Piano Class. Decided to try something different for a while.
Peace & harmony is what the teacher expouses. haahaa

best wishes
Rikki

Thank you kindly Rikki...that is exactly what I needed to do, and what I have been doing today.

Working on another CD, and getting more into playing and enjoying my S910...it's easy to take life too seriously and get lost. I'm on my way back.

All the best,

Ian

Ian, you are hanging around Donny too much..

BTW: Donny wants to be reinstated..

b for me .. as a matter of fact - If I could pick just ONE keybed it'd be the Nord 73 Electro3 waterfall keys - simply heaven!

Not bad for organ, good for Clav, not even too bad for Wurli, WAY too light for Rhodes and acoustic piano, IMO.

But my worries about 73's goes more to the fact that it only goes down to C, whereas any decent bassline needs a low E. so you end up having a VERY low C and you have to split at least a third higher up to give you a decent range for the bass. Mind you, Electro STILL doesn't split, so I guess you are good to go. But you'll notice on the Stage line they offer 73, 76 AND 88.