i say a BIG YES to an AUDYA-M

anyone?

if not,
what would these NEED to have (that AUDYA doesn't) to convince you?

Well, we ALL know you aren't going to get one, so is this question academic, or just curiosity?

You KNOW it won't have USB3, 1TB HD, 2GB RAM, all the other things that no keyboard in the WORLD has, yet, and it won't be much cheaper (if any) than the current Audya is. So, you'll still sit on the sidelines and bitch...

Personally, if an Audya was in my future, it would be the 76 version. The module worries me (I'd love to add one to my G70) because Ketron's MIDI implementation on the Audya looks barebones at best. They would have to SERIOUSLY beef up that section before it would be practical, IMO.

But I am content with USB1, let alone USB3, won't use the sampler live much (and prefer VSTi samplers and my Kurzweil in the studio), so won't need 2GB sample RAM (which, even at the Audya's pretty decent load up speed, would take a month of Sunday's to fill ), and realize that, in practical terms, a 1TB HD would remain mostly empty even with ALL the real world sounds I'd ever need on board, I am STILL far more concerned that, if I played a Gsus7 chord, my audio guitarist would PLAY a Gsus7 chord, not some MIDI stand-in...

So, in fairness, I am not so much waiting for a 61 or a module of the Audya... I am waiting for a TRUE Audya2 with the horsepower and capabilities to do what we all wanted it to do (musically) in the first place.

Sorry, Lee but I have absolutely no interest in any type of Audya. I've never seen or heard one and probably never will. What is an Audya anyway? Is that a Ketron product? I've never experienced anything Ketron. This is one of the very few Audya threads I've even looked at.

No not interested in a Audya.

can be interested in a module but not if it cost something like 4-5K

MJ

Yes, I would be very interested in an Audya module although I'm not expecting one to appear.
Ketron do, at least, always have a module among their line up (I wish all the other manufacturers did the same) and I have had sterling service from an MS40 for many years.
Would buy an SD3 from them if they would just replace the floppy with a USB port but still waiting.

Not if it has only 61 keys.

I don't understand.

Am I the only one who feels this way about 61'ers?

Nope! I'm sticking with what I have.

Gary

NO to KETRON!

Diki,

if the AUDYA module is for real,
i just may surprise you my friend...

YES to KETRON

I would consider it UNDER some "ifs":

1.-Correct the issues on the current OS.
2.LOWER the price....is out of range...basically pricing out of the market, remember what happen to Technics?
3.-Release the software proprietary to enable "Other" style designers make lots of them, guess who benefits?....remember the Apps for the Iphone and the I touch?, Apple released their software and now they can even use that as a Marketing tool, they now have over 100,000 apps......consider how old is the I-phone, I am aware that the amount of users are much more limited in the arrangers, still, I think it could make a BIG difference.


------------------
mdorantes

Secure delivery....

Without that, some form of copy protection, who on earth is going to develop styles for the Audya, with its' vastly more complicated audio loops to have to record? They sell ONE copy, we all trade it around like bubblegum cards, how does he get PAYED?

But if it had secure delivery and copy protection, they wouldn't have to charge much, because EVERYONE with an Audya would be paying him (if the styles were any good, that is!) rather than just the first few, as it now stands. See the thread about the Korg Europe styles if you don't believe me...

And leezone... You can't honestly tell me that after your cosigning Tony's bad rap on the Audya, and slamming it for the lack of every cutting edge computer technology that no other arranger has either (I have to discount the MS, because even its' manufacturer now acknowledges it isn't an arranger!), that if they brought it out basically as is but in a box, that you would swallow all your words and buy one..?

My flabber is ghasted I bet I get an MS before you buy an Audya!

Diki,

yes i realize it has 64mb RAM and small HD, and USB 1.1, etc,

BUT

it is BY FAR the most realistic "live sounding" arranger out today, at least for MY music.

it sounds LIVE, much more than ANY other arranger,

Diki,
you try the AUDYA through a REAL PA,
and then your G-70, and i GUARANTEE you that YOU will be convinced.

you GOTTA try it out

IF it was priced fairly...MAYBE...but it won't be so the answer for me is NO!

All Ketron is to much $$$

Lee S.

Quote mdorantes:
"LOWER the price....is out of range...basically pricing out of the market, remember what happen to Technics?"

Technics close down wasn't anything to do with prices - they were always a very reasonably priced board - their last range topper, the KN7000 retailed at £2,100.

It's only since Technics demise that Yamaha and other manufacturers have been constantly raising prices - because the raelly tough competition is no longer there!

Tehnics only closed down because Panasonic, who owned them, decided that they could make enough money from all their other products without having to invest in all the research & developement which used to go into Technics. For instance, they were the first to move on to SD cards and enable the boards to play MP3's. Roland tried a similar thing with Zip disks which didn't work out as successfully and still couldn't play MP3's. Ketron are STILL using floppies in the SD5 & SD3, thereby forcing people to pay for VERY EXPENSIVE hard drives. Getting to grips with modern innovations is just as important as prices.

Anthony is right in his statement regarding Technics.

Yes, I'll buy Ketron again, but I'm not not going to buy Audya befrore I see what this update will
change and/or add.
I've got a very very good offer by have it shipped from our neighbour country. Legally from a music
store and imported the right way, and still half the price compared to what we have to pay here.
In this case it will end up at the same level as Tyros3 and PA2X Pro in this country, aprox US $5000.
We'll see ....

Btw,
Musikmesse 2010 will be held in Frankfurt am Main from March 24 to 27, 2010. Looks like
Ketron will be at Hall 5.0 B26. http://musik.messefrankfurt.com/frankfurt/en/exhibitor.details.html/ketron-s-r-l.html

Maybe this is the time and place they will release the updated OS and other news... if any?

Cheers
GJ

This might also be when they release the module and/or 61 key versions..

Check THIS Out. Its LOGIC58(Marcello Colo) on youtube and he really shows what Audya is all about.
Also check out his other youtube videos.

This is what Audya is all about, the totall sound, maybe other brands(I personally like KOrg) have better and more impressive solo sounds, but nothing has the total sound of a Audya Performance.
Thats why i think that the Audya module will do great, you'll add these great styles to whatever solo sound you like most, Korg, Motif or Roland.

[This message has been edited by Bachus (edited 02-06-2010).]

The Audya certainly has a strong, robust, and "live" sound for sure...more than any other arranger.

Still, I prefer the Yamaha more compressed and refined sound for my work, which mainly involves recording and playing restaurant background music (of course, that's why I use Yamaha exclusively).

For dance stuff, the Audya definitely has the goods.

Ian

GJ,

if we have to wait till Messe,
that pushes the countdown back up to 46 right?

Maybe so, I really don't know, but as they say:
Those who wait for something good ....

Lee, you don't have to convince me how good the Audya sounds... From the first time I heard the demos, no matter WHAT my criticism of the arranger, the sound was never one of them

But there are still MUSICAL and operational problems, as far as I am concerned. I can still hear MIDI and audio guitar parts swapping in and out, depending on chord played, and I am also someone that doesn't like to use the same style for more than one or two songs, so a never ending supply of fresh styles and beats, lots of conversions and user edited styles are very important to me. The deal with audio loops makes the pool of people creating new and translated styles MUCH smaller than the Big3's resources, plus, as I have said before, tweaking the drum kit for variety, tweaking the guitars for variety (SO easy to do on a Roland!) is completely out with a loop.

I have many styles where I have used the Roland's Cover Tools (a simple 'one button' complete revoice of a style) to create something fresh, or turn a rock style into something a bit softer, and the nature of Ketron's audio loops negates this idea totally. If you are content with ONLY the included ROM styles in an Audya, you are good to go. But how GOOD those styles sound is also its' Achilles heel... translated styles and user styles won't sound NEARLY as good, and from what I've seen for the SD-1/5/3, Ketron aren't exactly overwhelming you with new content all the time...

No doubt at all it sounds great OOTB (one of my primary concerns), but where you can take it from THERE is more limited than what I currently have. Perhaps, when Ketron address making new styles from loops as easy as other manufacturers make editing and 'frankenstyling' (thanks, Ian!) theirs, and show us their commitment to a steady supply of new styles, when Ketron show us whatever passes for their style editing tools in new OS's, I can revisit the issue.

I wish my G70 sounded that good... but I also wish the Audya was as friendly as my G70 to rework the styles. Time will tell.

Diki,

i totally agree

we will wait, and wait, and wait, and see

I might well get a 61 note version or module for my second unit. I always keep two complete setups for doubles and backup.
Depends on the price, though. I think the module will be maybe a thousand less than Audya, but I have no idea about the 61.
Ketron doesn't make any really inexpensive stuff though.
DonM

You only save about $500 or so going from the SD5 to the SD3 module... well under 25% of the cost, so I doubt an Audya module is going to be the bargain anyone wants. If you think that that $500 or so is the cost of a keyboard and speakers, you probably aren't going to save much more, because that's all (hopefully!) that gets dropped on an Audya module.

Unless space is at a VERY high premium, I can't think why anyone that actually CAN play a keyboard would bother with the hassle of a module...

Because some people want the best of 2 worlds... they want 88 keys and a superb piano action and top of the bill synth performance (Motif/M3) and an arranger... this is where modules shine..

Or they want to add an arranger to their digital piano at home. Arranger piano's are not on par with totl arrangers.

Or they want to add Audya styles to their great sounding PA2X or T3. but not use 2 keyboards on stage..

A friend of mine is using an 88 key Oasys combined with a Roland V-synth and a Wersi module as a OMB (and a PC for VSTís), but also uses this stuff in the studio. He has absolutely no room for a keybedded arranger on stage as a 3 piece setup would make him loose the contact with his audience. (he has setup his system like a V, with V-synth to the right and wersi to the left.

Lambert is most of the time using a Ketron module next to his Wersi organ, its a great addition to the Wersi sound.

How many more reasons do you need for modules?

I know quite a few Hammond Players that have arrangers and a number of Pianists. You are right though, by far the biggest market is accordianists in Europe.

TWD



[This message has been edited by Tonewheeldude (edited 02-07-2010).]

You can mod accorden keys on any of the top arrangers in europe...

I have seen Ketron Korg and Yamaha top of the line keyboards modded with knobs instead of keybeds..

A module and 61 key versions ... what would be a reasonable price you would pay for these coming up?

so AJ,

AUDYA-M is a REALITY?


Diki,

why AUDYA module?
because i can take it to practice easily, easy transport, as i can have keyboards at home and friends house, and just plug in AUDYA and module

i can use 88key like was said,

or i can plug it to my AKAI MPK61
or my smaller Korg XD3, or even a 25 key key controller JUST for chords/accomp,

and use another keyboard for solo/right hand, etc


you see, versatility is what the AUDYA-M would give you...

AJ

price of AUDYA module should be price of SD3, and price of SD3 should drop...

What about put Audya at a "reasonable" price before even start any questions about price of
future models who might show up?
Yeah I know, it's only $5000 in the US, cheep, but here it's another story...... $8150 +++
Tyros3 and PA2XPro we can buy around $4000 or less.

Cheers
GJ

Gunnar and Anthony:

Regarding Technics......
Is very different way some business are conducted in USA and Mexico than in Europe, many manufacturers give certain line and or models to "Organ & Piano" stores, and others to "Combo/Pro" line stores, and the markup prices in the Piano & Organ stores are VERY HIGH. Here Roland did the same with the E80 and G70, then later, changed and probably a little to late.

I saw it myself several years ago the KN7000 in the store in Phoenix AZ with a tag of $6,000.00 dls....about the same of the AUDYA now....and that was 7 years ago more or less.
If that is not high, well.....

And even before I moved to USA, in Mexico I saw a similar situation, for a fact, I know that a KN 6500 was sold for $4,500.00 dls. to a friend of mine, whom I later sold my Ketron SD1.

Now, if you have a more "relaxed" markup, the sales chances are to be MUCH higher, therefore more revenue....

Is just the way it was.


------------------
mdorantes

Leezone,

AJ don't fix prices , AJ don't fix Audya, he did fix other things in the past, he's been a good representative for Ketron!

This would mean that the Ketron Module would be a simplified version of The Audya, missing most of the features, sounds and styles of the orriginal model...

If they make it the same machine without the keybed, al features and sounds intoo it, i don't expect it to be more then $500 cheeper then the 76 key audya.

So either way you are going to be unhappy with the price or with the feature set of the module.

AFAIK, Ketron don't offshore their production. It is still, I understand, being made in the EU, in Italy, right?

The reason Roland, Yamaha and Korg have managed to keep prices low is to manufacture them in China, with their artificially low wages. Unless Ketron take this step (very difficult to do - look at all the labor problems Roland had moving arranger production from Italy to China), I doubt you are going to see a big drop in their prices. You want a state of the art audio/MIDI arranger, with features no other arranger has, and you want it CHEAPER?

What is being smoked by some of our members?

Beleive me if i tell you that all the components come from south eastern production, all they do in Ittaly is assembly of the systems and software install..

The high prices for Ketron are mainly because of the hugh investment in new technologies (Auio styles) research and development combined with the relatively low number of systems they sell.. And espescially this major part of the cost needs to be done in europe as they have the knowledge.

Electonics hardware (components) is becomming cheeper every day, so the hardware can't be a main part of the costs.. its the software development

Since Yamaha sells much more units they can spread out the development costs of new technologies over much more keyboards and so it has less influence on the price..

For instance Yamaha's development investment intoo super articulation sounds will make them money in Tyros, top models PSR and Motif... For Ketron there is just a relatively low number of Auya's to gaet their investments back..

So all in all, Ketron is to small a company to compete with Roland Korg and Yamaha based on proces, and they can only sell their products if they have a substantiall better quallity then the competition.

Bachus

I have been in PCB and electronic development before and what you say is correct, it would be better for Ketron to make up and assemble outside of Italy. I don’t know if the people running Ketron would want to do that, every KB they release appears to be behind the times the day it comes onto the market. Ketron appear to have a fundamental flaw and perhaps its management, they survive only by luck and avoiding a major crisis by default. I think they must live on a knife edge, certainly not in the fast lane, if the shares came on the market it would be like Lehman Brothers all over again. If you look closely at the PA2x and forget how each sample sounds, take this out of it, the KBs perhaps look similar, but there is much more technology in the PA2x than the Audya. But the cost of the PA2x is £2000.00 below the Audya, you need to look if there is £2000.00 more in sounds, or will there be on OS4, but we haven’t got OS4 and there is no guarantee that we will ever get it. My advice to anyone is to hold off buying Audya until you see the whites of Ketron eyes, it’s all bull**** at the moment and it’s not worth the extra £2000.00. The cost to build the Audya will be much less than the PA2x which ever country it’s built in.

Your Quote

"The high prices for Ketron are mainly because of the hugh investment in new technologies"

Don't believe a word of this, they are well behind.


Tony


[This message has been edited by Tony Hughes (edited 02-08-2010).]

but remember guys, countdown is at 1...

AJ,

can you post a pic of the AUDYA module so i can salivate?

Can't at this time as it's against company policy. But I can say this ... they'll be GREAT!

AJ,

can you CONFIRM that there WILL be an AUDYA module?

AJ,

can you confirm that we will see the AUDYA61, in 3-2-1.....

At this point, I hope ketron will not rush release Audya 61 or Mod, just yet. I would prefer to wait until Ketron is ready to release. I'm willing to bet that they most likely announced the Audya a bit too soon and then pressured by the public to release. Once its ready, its ready, not a minute sooner.

I can always pick up an SD5 or SD3 again to hold me over until then.



[This message has been edited by mc (edited 02-09-2010).]

Let me know if you want an SD5 that's been used only a few times.
It was HankB's.
DonM

DonM

is the 61 or module in your future? :-)

Well not right now. I'm pretty happy with the Audya. I might consider the module for my backup rig at some point, but it will probably be too expensive to justify.
I work almost exclusively in one spot and seldom get time away for outside jobs at this time.
Things do tend to change though; you never know.
DonM

AJ,

countdown still at 1?

Nope. Down to 3/4. Will be down to 1/2 soon. ..........BUT, it'll be GREAT.

who know?
maybe they give the possibility to insert also the new USB 3.0 http://www.asrock.com/mb/spec/Card.asp?Model=USB%203.0%20Card
on Linux OS system is full working, try to ask, maybe they can add too..who know?

we just need it to be stable,
no crashing,
more sounds (modern), SA type sounds,
more variety of styles, more modern,
more memory (RAM and HD or better yet SSD)

everything MORE, EXCEPT price,

make this thing (61 key and module) AFFORDABLE,
so musicians (along with the rich) can buy it without having to take out a 2nd mortgage.

is this too much to ask?

Sadly, I can't see how a 61 note or module can be much lower cost. The difference between parts on a 61 key and 76 key is probably only about $50. And a module just a couple of hundred.

But a module would still be great news!



[This message has been edited by Tonewheeldude (edited 02-11-2010).]

are we still counting DOWN?

or are we counting UP?

Only if they remove features, the price can be much lower...

Tough i would not be surprised if these pieces where much cheeper and they used the 78 key version to gain back most of the development costs..

The hardware of a Synth can't cost more then 1000 dollar including a touch screen and a top knotch keybed.

In a word... YES!

Perhaps you would like YOUR customers to ask you to play twice as well, twice as long, oh, and by the way, would you take a big pay cut also?

Diki,

yes i would play more, twice, take pay cut,

IF it meant LOTS of repeat business,

you see you gotta give a little sometimes to get ALOT in return,

no need for greed when the competition is STIFF

So you end up making the same money for working twice as hard?

Sorry, but naturally, I assumed you were already working as much as you wanted to...

It's just this: "more sounds (modern), SA type sounds,
more variety of styles, more modern,
more memory (RAM and HD or better yet SSD)

everything MORE, EXCEPT price, " is simply dreaming.

But, maybe the Tooth Fairy DOES exist (and is shacking up with Santa)

Me, I want a Bugatti Veyron, for the price of a Camry. Am I asking too much?

no Diki you are not asking for too much

what's the countdown at now?

5/8th.

chas

We use the Metric System in the EU so it could be at 0.996542 now.

It's at the square root of all evil, divided by the humble pi you are going to eat...

lol

If and when Ketron releases a new 61 keyboard or module of the audya. It will NOT have the same SD5/3 pricing. Your most likely looking at a couple of bucks less than tha audya now. Unless they strip down the audya 61/m to bare bones w/ options. That's the only way.

Americans are too dumb to learn the metric system........except for the drug dealers. They all know what a 'kilo' is .

chas

5/8th is almost 1/2

so we're halfway there

You see, chas... that's how you get Americans to adopt the same standards used by the rest of the world... You refuse to pander to their inability to change. If no-one would ever sell us anything except in decimal quantities, especially the things we are addicted to (oil, fatty foods, chocolate ) we would convert in a flash!

Look, I come from the generation that went from pounds shillings and pence to 100 pennies in a pound (see? There IS something you guys had decimal right from the start. Why you didn't go all the way beats me!), and from miles and yards to meters and kilometers. It can be done. If the English can embrace the decimal system, surely the Yanks aren't prepared to let us beat them at something so simple?

As dumbed down as high school is getting over here, why anyone wants to figure things out in feet, inches yards and miles and gallons and quarts (if a car does ten miles to the gallon, how much do we owe the Saudi's to drive the perimeter of an acre plot of land? ) beats the bejeesus out of me.

Maybe we all think that American Business will use our ignorance to simply jack the price up on everything? But hey, they're doing that now, anyway. Seen the SIZE of a candy bar lately?

This countdown make very amateur but it's only my 2 cents....

MJ