Everyone by now must now about the stellar sound quallity of certain VST's. And certain arranger keyboards allready have an option for support of these VST's. (Wersi and Lionstracs)

But what an arranger needs is a dedicated set sounds that everyone has and use those sounds for the accompaniment tracks. If i use non standard sounds i can not share my styles with other people as they might not have the same sounds (VST's) installed. Extra sounds could be added to a style as samples, but extra VST's that need special progams to run are of a whole different order.

So all that leaves for the use of VSt's is mainly solo voices. So as a developer i would not invest in the extra hardware and software costs for VST's.

But............
It would be possible to add an software expansion (paid) to any keyboards that allows to connect to a PC and directly controll a piece of software running on the PC, this piece of software should be a VST host. over a gigabit ethernet cable there can be transported several audio channels and midi channels to and from the PC. And even the VST controll panel could be displayed as a popup on the keyboard (requiring a 1024x768 screensize)

To get a better idea about this technology its allready used on Muse receptor which allows full controll of the VST host and the VSt's of the receptor (Which is actually a computer running a VST host and VST's in a Linux environment) from a remote computer.
This technology we know as UNIWIRE and it uses minor resources compared to a full fledged audio/vst workstation.

So all they need to add to the Arranger is a software mod with the same function as UNIWIRE and work it intoo the User Interface of the arranger. All that they keyboard needs is atleast a 1024x768 resolution touch screen, and those have become relatively cheap over the last years. Sell it as a software addon, so the price of the arranger will be on Normal level and the people that want this addon pay for it.

[[Take note that the Korg M3 allready has a software part running on a remote computer that allows a VST host to use the KORG M3 is it would use any other VST, this is the other way as described above, and espescially has its uses in a studio environment, it would be technically possible to make a piece of software that functions both ways]]

This all has been possible for several years now and it has me wondering why no major Synth company has added such technologoes to their keyboards/synths/arrangers.


All in all this also explains why Lionstracs will never function as a decent arranger as its stellar soundquallity comes from user installed VST's that can't be used in standard styles. Its wise that they have changed their target audiance towards professional workstation users and not anymore OMB arranger people.
The current implementation of Wersi is better, because they have their own sounds and styles (whetter you like them like me or not) and they have the processor power to run op to 5 VST instruments but no effects. This limmitation is why i neer bought a Wersi and decided to start a software arranger.

Software arrangers tough have the same problems as Lionstracs, all setups are so diverse that there is no real usergroups sharing their stuff..(Ask Rikki BEars).. You spend a lot of time creating styles and then there is noboddy to share stuff with, which also leaves out the option to use the great stuff others have created. Sharing these things for me is very important. I liek to create my ownstuff but since i dont have infinite time for this hobby i also really need a lot of stuff that works straight out of the box.

((I hope my grammar isn't to bad, as you all know english is not my native tongue))


[This message has been edited by Bachus (edited 02-10-2010).]

Bachus, here are my thoughts, based mostly on observations from this board. They may also only apply to American users.

Arranger users tend to be older than your average synth/WS user and therefore less 'geeky'. They are willing to pay top dollar and therefore want everything to sound great OOTB and with one button push. As a group, they are least likely to delve into the heart of the OS, explore and employ all the features of a machine, embrace new but COMPLEX technology, utilize available software add-ons. I don't think we get less creative as we get older, I just think we get lazier. Of course there are always exceptions (Diki, Rikki) and people like Gary who will thoroughly investigate every operational possibility, but by and large, most arranger players just want to play; and play as simply as possible. If you look at their 'most wanted' features, they will likely be built-in MP3 players, sequencers, harmonizers, etc. All available and accessible with one or two button pushes. Yamaha's drum graphics painted on the outside of the case is a clear indicator of their perception of the need to 'dumb down' the operation of even their high-end products.

Everything you propose and all other approaches (ie. Liontracs) that involve (visible) software interaction, would, IMO, have to be made so transparent and so intuitive that it stayed within the boundaries of current OS's (in terms of simplicity and ease of use). And that would be difficult.

Processes and features such as the ones you describe, will only be implemented when and if younger and more tech-oriented users migrate towards arranger keyboards. Again, JMO.

chas

Since US is not the main market for arranger keyboards. The main market is europe and overhere we have arranger players in all age cattegories.

This makes your statement less valid...

But if the Arranger keyboard market in uerope doesn't want to end up like the US market we need innovative products that are attractive to young and old. So thats why i think they need to add stuff like KARMA, audio styles to arrangers. And thats why i think that VSt support needs to be added to arrangers too.

We have a saying here in holland "Standing still equals going backwards" We need to get what we liked in our old arrangers and improve on that. And add new things to that, some things will be here to stay and others will be just temporary and not as good as hoped and they will disapear again.

But you also have a point, Modern keyboards need to be easy to operate and sound great out of the box. Or as we say easy to learn hard to master with many indepth options for those that want more, and those might use those options to create those styles and sounds you might add to your keyboard by a simple copy paste action.


[This message has been edited by Bachus (edited 02-10-2010).]

I totally agree. In the 20 years or so that I've been doing arranger clinics and demos, the main user and/or buyer is as you describe Chas. Older and perhaps a little lazier, yet still very creative..

Still, I do have quite a few users who attend follow-up clinics to learn style editing and also basic voice editing as well, so all is not lost.

Adding VST and other things would have to be made very simple.

BTW, I love the drum icons on the PSR (miss them on the Tyros3)...saves a lot of fuss, as I can never remember which key triggers which drum.

My experience tells me I'm far from alone...especially if one hasn't been playing their arranger very much.

Do you ever edit the drums on your arrangers?

Ian

Never. But then, I use Korg drums .

chas

They are pretty good except for the fills....but of course, you could always get someone to edit them for you.

Ian

I know you've pledged to reform but I'm happy to see that you didn't reform completely. You're way more fun when you're a LITTLE naughty .

chas

I don’t mean to denigrate those who cannot use arrangers for gigging. For those who do not use them, "denigrate" means "to put down.”

I'm only trying to keep up, Chas...you're a tough act to follow, as usual.

Ian

We totally hijacked this thread. Sorry, Bachus, Ian made me do it.

chas

Well i am sure there are enough people that have an opinion about this topic and my ideas..

So lets put this back on rail and ask people to respond on the topic and not on your discusiion