Hi Bachus.



Yes, that's right.

It's the overall package, the engine, the effect, the samples and the DA converters that give a keyboard it's unique sound.

How much of all that do you think Yamaha change though with each new model.



It is utterly unbelievable actually. I'm not Anti Yamaha at all. I own a 01V, a QY700, a WX-5, and my pride and joy is the almighty VL-70m which gets huge respect from everyone.

How on earth can a company who can build and invent something as revolutionary as VL Technology not come up with a new Sample Play Back engine in 20 years. Sure they have likely refined it, but maybe not even enough to warrant the label AWM 3.

Yamaha's focus with the Tyros line is exclusively limited to working with the samples and providing people with more SA type voices as that's a measurable fact they can sink their teeth into. My old keyboard has X amount of SA voices and the new one has X amount more.

This to me borders on trying to fool the people into buying a new keyboard thinking they are getting even more of this “New Technology”. When in fact all your buying is a sample library which could have been sold on a Memory sick to existing users without the need to buy a new keyboard.



I was hoping to make the point by demonstrate a few things, like how well the Tyros 3 handles stretching a sample before it breaks up and sounds nothing at all like the sound it was supposed to be reproducing. Then demonstrate the same thing on a KORG.

For example, I know for a fact that a note sampled at C2 but played back at C6 on a Tyros 3 will suffer from a very clear lost in depth, tonal quality, and worse, radio wave noises will even be introduced into the sound that will be easily heard loudly.

Where on the other hand you will get away with a LOT more on a KORG. Use an OASYS in the test and the same sample won't even suffer from any radio frequency noises at all.

People on KORG forums can even heard the difference after a sample is stretched only a few semi tones, let alone entire octaves.

It's things like this that I feel give Yamaha that plastic sound. It's the systems inability to be stretched or flexible and it's ability to sound compressed because it's always being held back by the engine.

Does Yamaha even use a Lossless compression algorithm ? I bet that's a BIG NO.

Regards
James

[This message has been edited by Irishacts (edited 02-20-2010).]

Seems an awful lot of respect is being given to the basic engine, without nearly as much consideration to the samples themselves, to how much sample compression and shortened loops they have, to the D/A converters they go through, to the OS that drives the engine and to the style programmers that utilize all of the above.

I am also a bit bemused by, on the one hand, the slavish devotion to the 'latest' engine, whilst at the same time the admittance that the engine of the Korg Trinity was by far the best one from a sound perspective. So, what is the truth..? Is the latest ALWAYS the best, or is it just the latest?

Now, I've heard the PA1 and PA2 side by side, and while it's possible to tell a SLIGHT difference between the two, their similarities are FAR greater than their differences. There's no doubt that much of the sample content is common to both, the styles are common to both, and the OS is pretty common to both (things like the paucity of fills haven't been addressed in over a decade).

I honestly hear as little increase in change between PA1 and 2 as between T2 and T3. The engine doesn't make THAT much difference, IMO. Not as much as a new set of drum samples, or guitar samples, or any of the things that are obvious to the listener.

In all fairness, it isn't in an arranger company's interest to make a next model at 180º away from the previous model. People are buying the successor to what they have BECAUSE they liked the first one so much. Not because they hated it! THOSE guys go to another manufacturer.

The difference in sound between a T3 and a MoXS is about the same between a PA2 and an M3. And it is still primarily down to the samples themselves, not really the engine, IMO...

you keep avoiding one point and hiding behind your words.

When Yamaha release a new SA1 or 2 sample. the actual sample it self is a brand new sample! its not a standard sample that has been on the board for years which they just added velocity switching to which is purely what the Korg DNC sounds were.

JUST BECAUSE THE ENGINE IS NEWER IT DOESNT MEAN THE SOUND SAMPLES ARE BETTER!! THIS IS LIKE TALKING TO A BRICK WALL!! everyone around here can understand it why cant you!?

You say you want to have a proper conversation but you keep avoiding properly answering to our posts!

-Nick


[This message has been edited by Nick G (edited 02-20-2010).]

You forgot James and some pairs of very old ears, that have perhaps sat for years next to a very noisey drummer! If anyone is judging a KB through a set of PC speaker and then coming on SZ grinding away, there's something else wrong, don't you think!

Regards

[This message has been edited by Tony Hughes (edited 02-20-2010).]