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#281590 - 02/17/10 04:07 PM Re: Two more Premium Style demos
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Use all the excuses and justifications you like, Frans...don't matter at all to me.

The PSR-S910 also got a terrific review in Keyboard Player.

They probably got paid too, eh?

Sure, buddy, sure.

Believe what you want.

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#281591 - 02/17/10 04:16 PM Re: Two more Premium Style demos
FransN Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/16/09
Posts: 1415
Loc: Netherlands
I have review sites myself and I know how it works. Believe it or not.

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#281592 - 02/17/10 05:04 PM Re: Two more Premium Style demos
Nick G Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/16/05
Posts: 1115
Loc: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Quote:
Originally posted by Irishacts:
Thats what happens when you put a 15+ year old sound engine in a keyboard.

AWM2 so needs to die at this stage.

My 2 cents.
James


FYI - AWM2 is what is used in the Motif XS line. I own a Motif XS and you have to be joking if you think that sound engine needs to "die" - go and play one on a Logitech Z2300 system and spend more than 30 mins

The PSR S910 and Tyros 3 uses AWM1 and to be honest there is a massive difference in the clarity against the Tyros 2. (i have never used the Tyros 3 so i cant compare but the S910 is very far from sounding compressed.

And yes I have previously owned a Roland GW-8 and a Korg PA 800. the Roland didnt phase me but the Korg had a nice crisp sound compared to the Tyros 2 but had very outdated synth and pad voices. Most of the styles to me were outdated as well (reminded me alot like the Technics styles).

The S910 through a Logitech Z2300 sounds amazing. Its unfair to make assumptions of its quality if you have only heard it through small PC speakers / headphones or the on board speakers.

-Nick
_________________________
Roland G70 / Roland BK9 / Roland GW-8L / Roland Fantom O6 / Yamaha Motif XS / Technics KN6500

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#281593 - 02/17/10 05:12 PM Re: Two more Premium Style demos
Irishacts Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/18/01
Posts: 1631
Loc: Ireland
Hi Diki

Quote:
Plenty of hit music made on that 15 year old engine, James. Particularly for more classic styles, what's WRONG with the engine?


A hit song is not dependant on the keyboard you use, a hit song is a hit because the song is great.

Either way there is no excuse for Yamaha to keep using the same plastic sound engine for over 15+ Years. Not when the company is Yamaha, the same guys who built the DX-7 and invented something as amazing as VL-Technology. For them to sit back on AWM2 is an utter insult to Yamaha end users at this point.

Yamaha simply gave up trying to be innovative. I can't think of 1 product in the last 10 years that offered something unique.

Quote:
Now, the samples themselves, or the way they are programmed and played, yep, that could maybe do with an upgrade, but in all fairness, for preset patches, what really needs to be changed on AWM2 (that's what a T3 uses, right?)..?


The engine and the samples are the problem. The engine is far too old now and it lacks any depth. It's basically only a slight step above a crude ADSR engine with basic functions powered by highly compressed samples.

Yamaha don't even care enough to update the engine to include include compatibility with any known Sample formats that support Multisamples.

Quote:
For sound designers, synthscape creators, players of cutting edge musics, perhaps the engine alone can make all the difference, but I can't for the life of me think what an ENGINE upgrade is going to do to help a blues style, or some Bigband, etc..


Just look at what DNC Technology did for KORGs sounds when they put it on the back of their EDS Engine and RX Technology. Everything on the keyboard was effected instantly by it.

Where on the other had you have Yamaha milking people with fake technology. Mega Voices are not a technology at all, it's simply a layered multisample and basic function.

Sometimes I wonder are Yamaha intentionally treating people like idiots. The new Tyros 4 will come with 10 extra “Mega Voices” and they will actually list how many extra sound it has in order to fool people into thinking they are getting something really big in the new keyboard.

Where a KORG users can add as many DNC Voices to the hundreds they already have at no cost at all and no need to buy a new keyboard.

Quote:
Better samples, more dynamic velocity curves and velocity cross samples (all doable with the engine they have) would all make a noticeable difference in the drum sound (which basically sets the tone for the whole style), but an engine upgrade without addressing the core issue of better samples in the first place wouldn't really help, IMO...


Think if it this way, it's like connecting an MP3 Player to a 15 year old crap amp with poor DA Converters. Just because it says it can do something doesn't mean the quality is acceptable.

It's just plastic, compressed and very boring.

That said, the things that are annoying to one person might be acceptable to another. Yamaha's selling point is their keyboards are dead simple to operate. They are dead simple because they are dead basic. Which is what some people want.

Open the box, turn it on and that's it. Instant good sound by their standards.

Nothing wrong with that at all, I just have no respect for Yamaha for dropping the ball on all the great technology they once had. I have a Yamaha VL 70M myself and their WX-5. Will never sell them as they were the last innovative product that ever came out their factory doors.

Cheers
James

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#281594 - 02/17/10 05:17 PM Re: Two more Premium Style demos
Irishacts Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/18/01
Posts: 1631
Loc: Ireland
Quote:
Originally posted by Nick G:
FYI - AWM2 is what is used in the Motif XS line. I own a Motif XS and you have to be joking if you think that sound engine needs to "die" - go and play one on a Logitech Z2300 system and spend more than 30 mins

The PSR S910 and Tyros 3 uses AWM1 and to be honest there is a massive difference in the clarity against the Tyros 2. (i have never used the Tyros 3 so i cant compare but the S910 is very far from sounding compressed.

And yes I have previously owned a Roland GW-8 and a Korg PA 800. the Roland didnt phase me but the Korg had a nice crisp sound compared to the Tyros 2 but had very outdated synth and pad voices. Most of the styles to me were outdated as well (reminded me alot like the Technics styles).

The S910 through a Logitech Z2300 sounds amazing. Its unfair to make assumptions of its quality if you have only heard it through small PC speakers / headphones or the on board speakers.

-Nick



So you think it sound great and you want me to go and listen to it through a pair of cheap Video Game Speakers intended for a Home PC ?

No thanks.
James

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#281595 - 02/17/10 05:28 PM Re: Two more Premium Style demos
FransN Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/16/09
Posts: 1415
Loc: Netherlands
Instead of invented something new now all that money goes to the marketing machine of Yamaha.

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#281596 - 02/17/10 05:28 PM Re: Two more Premium Style demos
Nick G Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/16/05
Posts: 1115
Loc: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Quoted by Irishacts:

Just look at what DNC Technology did for KORGs sounds when they put it on the back of their EDS Engine and RX Technology. Everything on the keyboard was effected instantly by it.

Where on the other had you have Yamaha milking people with fake technology. Mega Voices are not a technology at all, it's simply a layered multisample and basic function.

Sometimes I wonder are Yamaha intentionally treating people like idiots. The new Tyros 4 will come with 10 extra “Mega Voices” and they will actually list how many extra sound it has in order to fool people into thinking they are getting something really big in the new keyboard.

Where a KORG users can add as many DNC Voices to the hundreds they already have at no cost at all and no need to buy a new keyboard. / Quote

James - are you funded by Korg??

Korg HAD to introduce the DNC sounds into their "TOTL" boards for FREE for one simple reason - to keep them in the game.

I had a PA 800 during the transition and the whole reason for the DNC sound set was to be able to keep up with Yamaha's SA technology.

- And they still cant get an acoustic guitar or a sax/trumpet/brass to sound as good as what Yamaha have produced.

Its good they released DNC, its even better it was for free. but your comments are far from accurate about Yamaha's sound engine.

-Nick
_________________________
Roland G70 / Roland BK9 / Roland GW-8L / Roland Fantom O6 / Yamaha Motif XS / Technics KN6500

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#281597 - 02/17/10 05:42 PM Re: Two more Premium Style demos
FransN Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/16/09
Posts: 1415
Loc: Netherlands
Yes and Yamaha can't get the drums, bass piano epiano synth etc sounds right. Maby you are funded by Yamaha Nick?

[This message has been edited by FransN (edited 02-17-2010).]

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#281598 - 02/17/10 05:48 PM Re: Two more Premium Style demos
Irishacts Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/18/01
Posts: 1631
Loc: Ireland
Quote:
James - are you funded by Korg??


Nope, I just know what I'm talking about.

Quote:
Korg HAD to introduce the DNC sounds into their "TOTL" boards for FREE for one simple reason - to keep them in the game.


Nope...... not true.

KORG have the most advanced sound engines of any Arranger and you won't find one single person here who can say otherwise. RX Technology was first implemented on the Pa1X and KORG's answer if you will to Yamaha's Mega Voices was to simply issue an OS update that expanded the Sound Engine to support 16 OSC's.

So Yamaha users had to buy a new keyboard and KORG users got a free OS udpate.

DNC is an entirely new technology and an evolution of the EDS engine and RX technology.

Yamaha have nothing that can reproduce DNC Technology and it's something that cannot be faked like the implementation of their Mega Voices was.

James

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#281599 - 02/17/10 05:59 PM Re: Two more Premium Style demos
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Don't bother arguing, Nick, you're dealing with very desperate people.

Bitterness oozes from their posts, mixed with the juice of sour grapes and the smelly sweat of envy...a nasty concoction, resulting in a very unpalatable whine.

You'll get nothing but pure negativity dealing with this lot.

My work is done in this thread...I'm off to enjoy more interesting and far more friendly companions.

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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