Good one Bill. That's why I always say I'm the boss of my family, and I have my wife's permission to say so!

Cheers,

Gary

Of course not, I was not referring to anyone in particular, I was referring to the "trend" of hiding behind the "it satisfies my needs" slogan to

a) hide particular drawbacks of a certain product
b) end a potentially "harmful" discussion for a particular product
c) foolishly protect the pride that goes hand to hand with any product purchase
d) the list can go on and on.

The problem is when the "my needs" defence goes beyond its exact meaning and wanders in the realm described above.

Simply put, and unavoidably using the car analogy, my car is a Hyundai Accent. It is cheap to buy, it is economical, can take me and some others from A to B, and that's that. It does not possess any of the sought after "car" qualities beyond that, meaning it does not steer, brake, or performs in any way close to what an Alfa Romeo or even a middle line Japanese car can. Now place me in a car forum, responding to someone else commenting its lack of steering prowress, which is a hard fact, saying "but it is perfect for my needs". No it isn't, and any one with half a brain knows what it can do and what it can't. Or maybe it satisfies my needs, but it would be foolish to say that if it satisfies my needs thatre is no problem with the steering.

Facts are facts. They can be easy or difficult to swallow but the truth is one and only. And if all realise and spew out the drawbacks of each model, meybe the next prodyct in the line is a step forward.

As I said, I did not think you were referring directly to me or to any other individual, for that matter.

I did say that an individual could be 'criticized for purchasing a kb for a particular reason and the kb does not have that functionality ...

Using your car analogy, while your Hundai may not steer as well as you LIKE, if you mostly drive STRAIGHT, then the steering may be 'good for your needs' ... However, if you want to speed through the hills and byways of Europe, you may want to drive something different ...
I know MY analogy is a little absurd, but I am trying to make a point...
I think one big difference in our thinking - yours and mine - is in whether a product fits one's 'needs' or 'desires' ...also whether it is 'perfect' for those needs ... While I may want my technics to sound like a Steinway, I have to accept the fact that it will not, but while it may not fit my DESIRES, it fits my NEEDS, because I am not performing piano concertos in a concert hall ...
Now if I were to try to argue that the kb does sound like a Steinway, then I should rightly be taken to task ...

I do agree with you that there are people, even on THIS forum - imagine that - who will rarely if ever give a negative comment about their particular board ...and you are correct in saying that if we, the users, don't let our dis-satisfactions be known, then twenty years from now people on this board will still have the same complaints ...
Unfortunately, it makes no sense for me to complain about my technics, because I would be yelling at a dead horse ...

And when you think of it, since your Hundai gets you and some others from point A to B - and BACK - then it is serving the same primary purpose as the Alfa Romeo ... it just does it with a different 'style'

t.
PS ... and as I also said, just because someone says "it fits my needs" does not mean the discussion amongst others should be closed ...
t.

[This message has been edited by tony mads usa (edited 02-21-2010).]

Why is it so hard for some people to believe that someone has very little negative things to say about a keyboard?

I had expressed the few changes I would have liked to have seen on my PSR-2000. At the time; of course, I wasn't on this forum, nor did I even have a computer, but I did voice the things I didn't like, and the things I wished it had. Still, overall, it met my needs for playing very well and so my complaints were few, and I found workarounds for them.

As with any keyboard, there will be the next new model to follow, and it could possibly have features that might appeal to me, and, if they are important enough, I'll buy it.

I also can't predict what new features will arrive...most times I know no more than anyone else what's coming up, but I can guess.

So, the PSR-3000 comes out and has features that I really like (Mega-voices, USB storage for starters), and I feel it would improve my overall sound, as well as increase my playing pleasure and convenience. I bought one.

Again, I voiced my complaints, which were few.

A few years later, the S900 arrived on the scene with SA voices, and Audio to USB recording...two features that appealed very much to me; the former important because I do all instrumental, the latter because I don't like using my PC for recording audio...the S900 still met my needs like the earlier two, and was an even bigger pleasure to play.

Again I voiced my complaints, and again they were few.

Along comes the S910. It had new features I again felt were beneficial to improving my sound and performance...again my playing pleasure was increased, again, I voiced my complaints, and once more they were few, and actually less than before.

Not once did I complain about the lighter action on any of the PSR's I owned, because it happens to be the type I like to play...why complain...I really do hope they don't change it, and it has never been on my list of things (especially things ergonomical) that I would like to see improved.

I genuinely prefer it to a semi-weighted action, and to my fingers, it is smooth light, and very reliable, as many users will attest.

If they change it to semi-weighted, I suppose I could get used to it, but it would then be added to my list of complaints. I don't like semi-weighted keys on an arranger. Never did...never liked them on synthesizers either....I consider the arranger as being a single keyboard evolution of the home organ, rather than a synthesizer/workstation.

I don't post a lot of negative things about the instruments I play, not because I work for Yamaha...but, it is because I use a Yamaha instrument, that I have very little to complain about...I love the sound, the operating system, the overall design...they suit me very much, and in that respect, I am a fanboy just like any other.

I also didn't apply to work for Yamaha...I was asked.

I do, however, consider myself very fortunate to work for them, especially when I can get to try the latest instruments at no cost to me, although, it isn't much different than when I worked in a music store. I also enjoy helping people learn the great features on the instrument. It's a job that never feels like work, and it gives me the same enjoyment I get when I gig.

Naturally, I have an NDA (Non Disclosure Agreement) which I must honor, but at the same time, I am under no obligation to play and own only Yamaha keyboards, and I am not restricted in voicing things I'd like to see improved, as long as they don't violate the agreement, which would obviously include new features I might know about that would be on the next new instrument.

Trident's car analogy is pretty good.

I have a Honda Accord that I have very little negative to say about...it meets my needs, and in many ways, surpasses them.

Improvements? Other than a lower price, I can't think of any.

Perfect car? Pretty well. Dead reliable, not too big, lots of space for my gear, a terrific handling vehicle (heavy duty suspension...sway bars front and rear), great on gas, plenty of features (power everything) I like that definitely improve my driving experience, and absolutely none that do not.

It is not just practical and able to cover my basic transportation and gigging needs...it is also a joy to drive...I'll take it for a spin for no other reason other than just to enjoy it's terrific driving experience.

Would I want an Odyssey, to me, Honda's equivalent of a Tyros3? Nope, I don't lack for anything in my Accord SE.

My PSR-S910 is the same way...it easily meets my basic needs, and I sit down and play purely for pleasure at every opportunity...so it is hardly just a work tool.

Would I want a Tyros3? Nope again; the S910 does the job, and more, for me, and I don't feel I'm missing anything.

Not sure how much this fits the topic, but it was something I felt I had to say...sorry for the long-winded post.


Ian




[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 02-21-2010).]

Ian,
Hope you doing well these days...
I still use the Korg PA2XPRO.

But, I am building a house right now...so very little play time these days.

I'm doing almost all the work myself, so had to put off music until we get moved in in May? I hope.

Lee S.

Ian...I too have a Honda Accord and I fully understand why you feel that way about yours ... it is a very comfortable, smooth ride, and it has LOTS of power and it is a 10 year old vehicle ... http://www.edmunds.com/honda/accord/2000/index.html
on a recent drive I had to catch myself a couple of times because without realizing it I was driving over 80 MPH !!! ... of course it didn't help that other cars were still PASSING me ...
BUT, when it comes to a true DRIVING experience, I take the 2003 BMW 325Ci out of the garage ... now THAT is a RIDE ... the BMW to the Honda is kind of like a technics to any other kb JUST KIDDING !!! ...
But I will say SOMETHING negative about the beemer - it doesn't have nearly enough room for my gear - ... unless it's a summer gig and I can drive with the top down ... http://autos.yahoo.com/2003_bmw_3_series_325ci_convertible/

Drive what you love, PLAY what you love ...
t.

Hi Tony,

My Accord is a 2002 Special Edition 4-door...it looks quite a bit like your car. The '02 Special Edition had all the power options including a sunroof, heated mirrors and heated cloth upholstered seats, the latter two very necessary in my area of Canada.

Having front-wheel drive is a benefit in snow as well.

It will hold all my gear...the rear seat folds ahead so the back is all cargo, and there is an opening right through to the trunk.

Bimmers are cool cars, especially the convertibles...would only get a month or two to use it up here on Cape Breton Island...summer is short, essentially two months of poor skiing...

BMW's hold their value well too, as do the Accords...always a good investment.

The first keyboard I saw with the chord inversions in the accompaniment was a KN-something...great sounds at the time as well...one of the first with PCM sampling I believe.

Yamaha and Roland were far behind at the time...they finally caught up, but Technics was still a premier arranger right to the end.

Too bad they stopped making them...very good quality instruments, they were.

Ian