Change the name of the General Arranger forum? Never. But in reading through the last few popular posts, I realized several things. First, with few exceptions, when you talk about WORKING (gigging) arranger players, what you're really talking about are professional ENTERTAINERS and/or SINGERS who have chosen self-played arranger keyboards as their preferred (for whatever reason---musical, financial, social) method of musical accompaniment and support...........which leads to the second point:
The TYPE or BRAND of keyboard has much more to do with the player than with the audience. I think people like Don Mason and a few others have proven over and over again that if the singing is good and the act is PROFESSIONAL, it's going to sound good regardless of the keyboard you use. Sure, (the styles of) some boards may be more suited to one type of gig or audience (re: Stevenm52+S910+Nursing Home) than another, but I'm sure you could make that case for every single arranger keyboard out there. Tony still plays his Technics 6000 (sounds damn good, too ) and as far as I can tell, has no desire to change it. I think he 'gets it'.

Of course this is just a long-winded, roundabout way of saying, don't get so defensive, hostile, put out, abrasive, mean-spirited, ornery, obtuse, nutso, mad, emotional, etc., etc., over someones comment or opinion of your favorite keyboard. Just chill out and enjoy the inner satisfaction of hating theirs (but choosing to take the high ground and not telling them so). Remember, if you're a pro, it's the SINGING, stupid.

Now, if you really want to take your life into your hands, just say something negative about the Nord C1, unquestionably the finest keyboard ever. (Sigh) when will those XK1, XK3c, BX3, VK8, users wise up.



chas

Well, Chas, if I may be brutally honest about the Nord C1...and don't take this the wrong way...the Nord C1 is ....sorry, someone at my door...

Okay, I'm glad that's off my chest!

Taike



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Bo pen nyang.

It isn't hard to say something negative about a product, as no product will ever be the perfect fit for all users...

Try using Nord instruments as master keyboards... Its the one thing that made me decide to buy a soundless straight masterkeyboard instead of a clavia Stage EX. (well that and the monay difference)as the heart of my software set-up.
Tough i really like the sound of Clavia's keyboards and the keybeds they use i dont fancy their red looks that much.

But then i have no clue why you post this at all, as your podt title doesn't real comply with the content of your post..

Keep in mind that some people really like expressing and defending their opinions even when they know that other people havedifferent opinions about the item that are viable as well from their point of view

Bachus, the Nord thing was joke. Sorry you missed it.

chas

Gee Chas...why did you waste your money on that ugly red Hammond wannnabe? It doesn't even smell like a Hammond. You're going to have to get a rag soaked with tone generator oil and hide it inside the C-1.

Here's my opinion, for what it's worth...

Those who are bashing are actually doing more harm than good for their product, as it is quite obvious they are just trying to make their product look better at the expense of another.

Several friends of mine who lurk on SZ have said that to me already...and that's why I'm trying not to do it anymore, but I must say, it's sometimes very difficult.

Seems that anytime anyone says anything bad about Korg, the same ones regurgitate the same tired old defenses.

Call down Roland, and the same bunch suddenly appear and go bonkers on everything else.

Step on a Yamaha user's toes, and they get just as bonkers and regurgitate equally as many defenses.

Mediastation? Audya? No different.

Whether we like it or not, someone bashing what someone else plays is more than likely going to be taken as a personal slight.

Childish? Maybe, but I doubt it. It's more a human trait, than a maturity issue.

We choose a keyboard because we love the sound/features/weight/ key feel, and all of those things are personal...we believe, after much research and testing, that we have wisely invested our hard earned money into a certain brand and model, also a very personal act, and we like to feel we've chosen the best for our needs...again a personal decision.

Then someone decides to start aggressively and tactlessly bashing our personal choice in something.

It's like you (figuratively) walking into another person's home, and saying they should have bought the kind of furniture that you use, because their stuff is crap compared to your much better choice.

It's like saying you (again, figuratively) saying that someone's taste in music is stupid, or weird because it does not conform to your obviously superior choice of another genre.

I've seen skirmishes happen here that started over who was the best jazz organist (Jimmy Smith, of course), who had made the best choice in computers, like PC vs. Mac (by the way, PC is better) the color of a keyboard (Blue?), the number of keys an arranger should have (61 is the best)....these are all personal choices....and the debates (that's using a nice word) are always ultimately, no-win situations.

All it ends up as, is a bunch of people with hurt or angry feelings, that will jump at a chance to get even at the first opportunity.

I've been there, so I'm no saint, but I'm not buying into it anymore...maybe I'll slip a bit, but I'll keep trying...it's still better than making bad friends and going around looking for opportunities for retaliation.

Life is too short for that foolishness.

Ian

Good post, Ian. And don't worry about 'slipping' now and then. Everybody does. The important thing is to make sure that's not your ONLY mode of operation. I've noticed that DonM never lashes back when the Audya bashing starts, nor does Fran take the bait when the Mediastation Station bashing starts (now Roland, that's a different story ). But I disagree with you on one point, Ian; I think it does, to a large degree, have to do with MATURITY (of course, I'm no expert on that particular subject ).

chas

It could be, Chas...we musicians, well, me at least, haven't really grown up....that's why we "play" instead of "work".

I got into it because it was easy work, a lot of fun, and a great way to meet girls.

That's mature, isn't it?

Ian

Good post Ian, and you are right, life if very short. I have lost several dear friends in recent years, all of whom were synthzone members. Ironically, they were among those that did not enter into those type of discussions.

Cheers,

Gary

It's funny you mention DonM, as I was thinking the same thing.

Maybe he writes down a really nasty and clever reply, and then just doesn't post it.

We'll never cure Fran of his "Rolanditus"...only one that can wreck that would be Roland itself.

Nothing wrong with being a fanboy...I'm one and proud of it.

It's okay to praise your favorite 'board or manufacturer to the highest, but I don't think it's doing yourself, or your own choices, any favors by taking cheap and tactless potshots at another person's selection or another company's products.

I can't guarantee I'll never do it again, but I'll sure as hell try hard enough not to.

Ian

I HAVE done that quite often, Ian! But never about someone's choice of keyboards, usually about choice of words.
I'm so wishy-washing about changing keyboards, I'm afraid I might have to eat my words if I criticize too much.
I currently have seven keyboards, two Rolands, an Audya a PSR2000, a Casio and two controllers.
Also have HankB's SD5, but only to sell it for his wife.
I've only had two keyboards that I totally didn't get along with, the Korg PA800 that was released with bad sound and a Roland G800 that kept breaking.
I have been critical about various aspects of most all the brands, especially Yamaha's drum kits and vocal harmonizer, Rolands lack of break-fills, Korg's limited fill-ins and lack of styles suitable for me. I dislike some of the hardware placement on the Ketrons, including the location of the pb wheels and style-control buttons, and I also am waiting for more diverse lead instrument sounds.
Thanks for singling me out, but there are lots of folks here who "bite their tongues" and try to post primarily positive thoughts, or at least stay away from getting into the personality-type battles.
Over the years I have been guilty of losing it on several occasions but I generally regret it later.
I deeply respect those who post in a language that is not native to them. I think that can lead to misunderstandings sometimes.
I also appreciate several people in particular who have made obvious efforts to be, shall we say, more diplomatic.
All in all, this board is one of the really tame ones on the internet. I'm extremely grateful for the friends I've "met" here and for all the help I've received.
Even though, I obviously have made by far the best choices in gear over the years.
DonM