quote from Gunnar:
Did you ever play or listen to any of Technics top KN's live Diki?
And if yes, did you take note of the brilliant OS, composer, panelmemories etc?

Cheers
GJ

Gunnar... in fairness to Diki, all he commented on were the sounds, and that's always subjective ...
There are those of us who realize that technics kbs were always ahead of the curve in many aspects ...
t.
PS ... Listening to Fred's arrangement on my PC, and taking NOTHING away from Fred's talent I have to say the kb sounds better in person...
JMHO,
t.

[This message has been edited by tony mads usa (edited 03-03-2010).]

Hi Tony.

Of course it is, and it was only a question.
Last time I heard a Casio, it sure was not evven close to any Technics KN.

Cheers
GJ

At least someone read my post as written, and didn't read anything else into it...

Look, I hear altogether too many Technics owners lament the company going belly up, and wishing for new models. Obviously, even THEY have come to regard them as starting to slip to the back of the pack when it comes to the quality of sounds used in the styles.

I made NO comment about the OS, or any other aspects, other than to praise the style itself (not good enough for you? ), but to question the sounds it played. Casio-like? MAYBE not quite, but noticeably inferior to YK&R. Velocity switched drum sounds and larger ROM sizes have pushed realism into new territories since Technics 'went away'. And, I'm sorry, but that recording did nothing but emphasize the strengths of Technics for the listener (not the operator), being the styles, and expose their weakness, again for the listener, of the sounds used by the style. I have, and made, NO comments about the OS or playing experience. I've sat in on a couple of older Technics (what other kind is there? ) but only briefly, hardly long enough to get a good feel for their strong and weak operational aspects, and this was a long time ago, so for the time, they sounded pretty good. I'm not a bigband player much, so the styles didn't make me want to go out and buy one (I wasn't using arrangers much back then, anyway, at least not as arrangers), but for the time is sounded OK...

But time marches along, away from Technics funeral, where they lie, immobile. I'm sorry you felt the need to rush to their defense, I'm sorry you felt the need to read more into my post that I actually wrote, but I stand by my comment. Regardless of the style (which I PRAISED) or the operational aspects, were I faced with eternity having to listen to those sounds, now that I am aware they can be MUCH better, yes, I think I WOULD think I had been banished to the 'other place'!

I think some people might have seen it as somewhat insensitive to pick a thread bemoaning the death of a friend to start critiquing the keyboard sounds of a song posted in memoriam. No disrespect, Diki, just seemed like the wrong comment at the wrong time. To be honest, it kinda' hit a sour note with me as well. I think that might have been a little of what Tony was reacting to. He's usually pretty comfortable with the sound of his Technics. JMO.

chas

Nope... he didn't make any reference to my 'insensitivity' (I praised the playing and the style, for Pete's sake, and wished him well wherever he is now) about it being on a tribute thread. He just leaped to the usual knee-jerk defense of his arranger, when faced with ANY criticism of it whatsoever...

Which, if you want to look at it THAT way, was just as insensitive (in fact, more so because they couldn't even take the time to praise the playing!)...

Gunnar and tony mads just did the usual 'nothing wrong here, move along' boilerplate defense, chas. Yes, I'm sorry that ONE part of my post made all hell break out, but read it again and see my good wishes for him in Heaven (would YOU rather have a real band or an arranger in Heaven for eternity? ), but insensitive..? Only if you are determined to find it.

If those guys hadn't charged in and hijacked it, the comment might have just seemed normal... If it has got to the point where you can't say the LEAST thing negative about an arranger, even when surrounded by positive comments about it and the player, what have things got to, here?

HOLD ON!!!
Before anyone 'puts words in my mouth' or implies things I DID OR DID NOT say, how about a look at what I DID say:





I thanked BeBop and complimented Fred's talent, examples of which I have heard through the years thanks to BeBop and the "technics Forum" ...

I did respond to Diki's criticism of the technics sounds, saying only that to some ears they sound fine.

I DID apologize for the path the thread had taken, even though I don't think it was MY post that started it down that path.

I think it is ironic that someone can make a statement that causes others to react, and then blame THOSE people for hijacking a thread.

And if anyone can explain what the "usual 'nothing wrong here, move along' boilerplate defense" is, I would appreciate it ...
just my two cents worth....
t.

Diki, was my qestions to you written that bad?

The reason for asking was not to defend Technics, that's not any need to, but as you know
a lot about, more because the sound of a recording and the real thing often don't give the
right impression. It's no problem to do a recording of a G-70 and make it sound thincan as
cheep casio as well.
That's why I ask, because I doubt a live test of the top KN series would make you close to
think in the direction of thincan low price toys even if sound is a very personal and
subjective matter.

Cheers
GJ


Btw,

quote:
just did the usual 'nothing wrong here, move along' boilerplate defense,
end quote.

Would like to get it translated to my native language, I'm probably too slow to figure out
the meaning of it.

Strange how some can criticize or comment on OTHER arrangers, and think that is their right to post their opinion, but when faced with criticism of their own choice, start to fall back on the tired 'beauty is in the eye of the beholder' defense. Which basically negates any opinion THEY have about anything, too!

And yes, I apologize, Tony. I lumped you in with Gunnar, who didn't even BOTHER to post anything about Fred at all. I missed your earlier comment by concentrating on the posts AFTER my comment. But even so, neither of you made any reference to 'insensitivity' towards Fred, you both simply made the common ('boilerplate' is used for whole sections of text that get repeated all the time - it's a printing and legal phrase) defense of 'well, it's good enough for me, have you even HEARD a Technics?', yada yada yada that so often gets put up here.

Let's be honest, here. If Technics came back into business, and brought out something with sounds that rival a MODERN arranger, are you telling me you WOULDN'T fall over yourselves rushing to buy it? And my comments were not anything to do with the EQ curve. I know a bad recording can destroy the fullness of ANY arranger, but it can't disguise sounds with no dynamics, or drumkits with single velocity sounds, playing back parts with dynamics on them...

I know you both love your Technics. I would LOVE to have some bigband styles on my Roland as good as you have on your arrangers. But I'm convinced I wouldn't want those styles if the cost was sounds as dated as they were played on. Sorry, but that's just the way I feel... Beauty is NOT in the eye of this beholder!

Sorry if my questions upset you Diki, I only ask if you ever played a Technics live,
and if so, did that make you think Casio, next was, what do you think about the very
userfriendly OS.
Yes, I did use the word briliant, that was maybe a wrong word to use, and yes, Technics
arranger kb's are history, other brands are to explore.

Regarding bigband, sorry, not what I look for at a keyboard, nothing electronic can beat
the sound og real brass band anyway. Still, it's not my favourites.

Hijacking treads, well, you've probably never done that at any time yourself, but did you
really stay strict to the topic in Bebops tread yourself?

Cheers
GJ

The only comments I MAY have ever made about another kb would be based on hearing someone post something here ... I am not qualified to praise or criticize anyone else's kb, as I am not familiar enough with them ... so please don't "lump" me in that category either ...
I generally am not one to go around just to try out other kbs ... My arranger kb purchases (BOTH of them ) have been made based more on NEED than DESIRE ...
Would I LIKE to have more advanced sounds? - perhaps, but at this stage in my life, and for the amount and types of gigs I play, I really don't NEED them ... and since my song registrations are proprietary to technics, I don't want to bother going through all of that again ...and to use the 'boilerplate' - it suits MY needs ...
But, yes, if technics did once again manufacture a TOTL kb, - and I KNEW they were going to be around for the long haul - I most likely would seriously consider it, provided that along with more MODERN sounds, it would also have the few things my current board does not have - i.e. midi markers, USB connectivity, and maybe a couple of other features ...

And, apology accepted ... Thank you,

t.




[This message has been edited by tony mads usa (edited 03-04-2010).]

And that's EXACTLY what I did...