After using the Tyros 3 for an extended time, and loving the keybed and sounds (among other things), I'm thinking about finally upgrading from my PSR 3000.
I have a bunch of friends who use the Korg Pa800, and a bunch who use the Tyros 3. I looked at the Ketron keyboards a bit, but I think it makes the most sense for me to stick to one of these.
So I'm gonna cram a few questions into one topic (hope no one minds
1) Has anyone heard anything about the Tyros 4, and when it might be coming out? I'm not in such a rush to upgrade, and if the T4 would be coming out in a few months, I'd rather wait for that.
2) I know there are numerous topics about the Tyros 3 vs the Pa800 (I don't need 76 keys, and I don't like weighted keys, so I would stick with the Pa800, not the Pa2x Pro).
I'm going to be using almost all my own styles anyway, so it basically comes down to the voices and sounds.
So based on sounds, which one do people think is better?
And I have heard that, at least compared to the T2, the Korg had a more "punchy" sound. Is that still the case, that the styles will sound more punchy and pumping on the the Korg?
3) And I know that there are some options for expandability and additional options on the Korg, and some on the T3. Does that make a lot of a difference, and is one a lot better than the other?
4) I am not so into editing sounds (besides some basic volume and maybe octave changes - whatever's in the first voice settings panel on my PSR 3000).
Are there a lot more options for tweaking the sounds on either keyboard, and if I'd rather not have to edit everything for it to sound good, is there one that will be a lot easier to use "out of the box" with minimum voice editing?
5) I've been using some styles I bought from someone else, which I haven't really edited much on the keyboard itself. The only thing I've had to do is convert them to the keyboard I'm using, and for any other editing I've needed to do, I've done that on the computer, using the various tools that are available.
In that department, is there a big difference between the keyboards and style formats, and what's available for editing them?
I think that's it for now...
Thanks a lot!!

Yitzchok

In my opinion, the yamaha has better acoustic sounds, guitars, strings, pianos flutes saxes in pretty much every category really except the drums. But the korg has far more editing capabilities and has far more assignable features than the Yamaha.

From what you have said the yamaha would seem to be the way to go.

By the way i own the Korg PA1X but would never swap it but i more than likely use my instrument differently than you would use yours.

Deleted

[This message has been edited by FransN (edited 03-09-2010).]

Hi



I guess you mean: "I like the Korgs sound much better then the Yamaha Tyros and Psr series."

Objective measures for sound does not exist.

Regards
Jørgen



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The Unofficial YAMAHA Keyboard Resource Site

Hi Yitzchok
NOTE: These are my personal observations; however as always try before you buy. (Never under any circumstances make a decision using just online demos)

The typical life cycle of a Yamaha is 3 years, so it’s good for some time yet.

The Yamaha is a pre-set instrument that is aimed straight at the home player, therefore everything is done for you, (Balance, Style levels, voices etc.) so is good to go straight OOTB.
The Korg, although designed for the home player, is a trickle down from their Pro-Line so maybe not quite as well balanced OOTB, but its flexibility makes the Tyros 3 look like a Karaoke machine.
If you’re used to the way Yamaha do things, then there is quite a learning curve when moving over to the Korg OS.

SOUNDS:
Compared to the Tyros 2, I find the Tyros 3 to have a very compressed Mp3 type sound, whereas the Tyros 2 was CD like. (Exceptions are the SA2 voices)
The Korg on the other hand sounds more like a live performance, (Which is always my preference) but is not for everybody.

SA2 sounds are superb, (Although VSTi have had better for donkey’s years) but limited in what you can do with them, however the Korg DNC takes articulation to a whole new level (For a hardware board) allowing you full control over the multiple articulations, however the downside is that to get the best out of them you have to put some work in.

STYLES:
The Yamaha gives you everything (Including the kitchen sink) so tend to be very song specific, whereas the Korg allows you more flexibility to play what you want to play, rather then what the style dictates you to play. (This is the main reason why Yamaha styles (Particularly IMO the repetitive Megavoice styles) are my least favourite out there)

FINALLY:
To reiterate, always try before you buy, (As it’s a very personal choice, and not one suits all) if there are no dealers in your area, go onto the respective forums (Or ring the nearest dealer) to see if anyone has one in your area that you can try. (Most will be happy to show them off)
Remember: The choice is yours and yours alone.

Hope this helps

Bill

BTW: If I was restricted to a hardware board, my personal preference would be the Korg. (Fortunately there are plenty of software boards out there, so I don’t have to make that decision)

I pretty much agree with Bill's assessment except that I have no personal knowledge of the differences between the T2 and the T3. Given what you have stated in your original post, I also think that you would be happier with the Yamaha. Like Bill, I too would choose the Korg if I had to choose just one, but that is based purely on subjectivity and should not be considered when choosing a keyboard for yourself. Your needs, tastes, applications, and work style, may be completlely different from the other persons.

chas

deleted

[This message has been edited by FransN (edited 03-09-2010).]

Geez, how often do we have to revisit Stupidland.

chas

Are we getting personal again?

I have deleted my posts because I can't give any opinion without getting insulted.



[This message has been edited by FransN (edited 03-09-2010).]

It all comes down to personal taste, these boards are all fantastic.

There are some definite sour points, like Yamaha's sub par vocalizer, Korg's fill integration.

But if you are talented and know how to make music, you will do fine with any of these keyboards.

Don't fall slave to " Technology will make me better" that's my thing, and after hundreds of thousands of dollars, it doesn't work.

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www.AudioworksCT.com

I'm not sure whether it's unfamiliarity with English, again, Frans, but 'It's a proven fact' is NOT an opinion. It's a declaration of FACT, and has nothing whatsoever to do with opinion.

In actual fact, the only way you can PROVE something about an opinion about sound is to provide example for your opinions, and get the majority to agree with you.

If you think that Korg (or any keyboard) is 'better' than any other, provide your example playing it, and see what people think. And even then, don't expect many to agree with you...

Well I have decide not to give my opinion or whatever answer anymore on this kind of questions. BTW I don't have to prove anything. There are a lot demos online of how the Korg PA's sound. I make my decision of buying a Korg listening to these demo's and comparing them in the music store.

Some random thoughts...

Both boards are superb.

If it's important to you to be able to replace ANY onboard style with ANY that you prefer, Korg lets you do that. Yamaha's are fixed, except for the user section.

Korg's drums can't be beat. (pun intended)-they are in-your-face LIVE.

Korg's controllers allow a great deal of expression once you learn the OS.

Yamaha's woodwinds rule. (The 'sweet soprano sax' - even on the entry level PSRs blows away anything Korg has to offer).

Korg's styles are interesting. The style loops are often longer by a measure or two. Plus when intros are played in a minor key, the Pa800 will sometimes play a totally different intro than when played in a major key.

OS is a major hurdle on Korg, especially if you are accustomed to Yamaha's OS. When I first played a Korg, I turned my nose up at the quality of what I was hearing. One needs to give it time. Now I am amazed at what I get out of the Pa800 - and also very pleased with its roommate - the S910. Two different boards, each with their own set of positives and negatives.

Ditto to what both Frankieve and Coaster Tim have posted. Since getting into this arranger scene I've been thru as many boards as some people change clothing ( bit of an exaggertion). I've gone full circle, PSR3k, Tyro2, G70, Pa800, Korg Pa2xPro (still have) and now my preferred for gigging S910. They all work as we know, it's who the musician is. Currently, I give the edge to my s910 because 90% of what I do is for seniors. My perception is they prefer the Yamaha sound. ( just my perception! )

[This message has been edited by Stephenm52 (edited 03-09-2010).]

Okay, "Stupidland" was a poor choice of words, but let me make it absolutely clear that I was referring to the statement "...proven fact", and not the person. It's just that we've been down this road so many times and everybody agrees that the rating of the quality of the sounds and styles in any keyboard is purely subjective. SUBJECTIVE. SUBJECTIVE. To those for whom English is a second (or third or fourth) language, this means (roughly), "Okay, so that's YOUR opinion, now here's MINE".

There is a difference between opinion and fact. For example:
'The G70 is too darn heavy' - fact
'The Audya is overpriced' - fact
'Fran is full of it' - fact

'Jazz is superior to other musical forms' - opinion (based of fact )
'Tony works for Ketron's competitors - opinion (but strongly held)
'Diki knows everything, period' - opinion (mostly held by himself)

The quality of this post is also highly subjective.



chas

Thanks all for the responses so far, and sorry if I caused any sort of fight here...
Looking for more opinions, and another question or two:
6) Has anyone heard anything else about the T4?
7) I played around with an Audya for about 3 minutes total, so I really know nothing about it, but I'm wondering if a lot of the people who were previously using Korg's and Yamaha's moved over, or if it was mostly people who were using Ketron's previously.
Thanks a lot!!

Wait till Musikmesse 2010 is from March 24 to 27. Then you will know about a Tyros 4.

There will not be a T4 untill late 2011l, as noted before, yamaha has a 3 years release cycle on these products

Tough i am expecting them to release a 76 notes T3 pro.. There has been so much nagging about the 61 keys only, so they can't be that iognorant and not release a 76 key pro version?

Which makes me wonder what other pro feautures a T3 pro would have above the normall T3, can't think of anything but a few more SA2 voices that would fit intoo Yamaha's concept...

I bought a Tyros 2 new when it was Yamaha's flagship/ top of the line keyboard. In retropect I sometimes I had bought both mid priced keyboards from both Yamaha and Korg. For some things the Yamaha works better, other things a Korg would better suite me. I guess having to learn two OS would be a pain though, and really that time would be better spent developing as a musical skills.

I had a phone conversation with Yamaha a while back, and they said that basically, the 9000pro 76 sold in such low numbers, and most other 76 arrangers sell very poorly compared to 61's or consoled up 'home' 88's that they honestly have NO intention of producing a 76...

We few pros and gigging 76 arranger players are such a drop in the bucket, as far as Yamaha are concerned, they don't even CARE that we HAVE to go Ketron or Korg or Roland even if we DID want a Yammie in the first place...

But anyway, at least we can be grateful that a FEW companies care more about what their customers actually WANT than the almighty bottom line...

The only current 76 note arrangers available are the Audya, the Korg PA2XPro, and the Mediastation.

At least those looking for a 76'er have a great choice.

Ian

+1

Lets see from the major 4 ...... and their latest TOTL arranger...

Korg PA2x 76 keys
Roland G70 76 keys
Ketron Audya 76 keys
Yamaha T3 61 keys

Home players have enough with 61 keys, performers often prefer 76 keys. Yamaha is solely concentrating on the home players. But they somehow seem to forget that those homeplayers want the same instrument as the pro's ... or preferably the 61 key version of the 76 pro version.

The only reason i can think of that Yamahe does not produce a 76 version is because that would Conflict with their own DGX portable grand range...

I was under the impression that the G-70 was discontinued (at least in the UK)...
http://www.roland.co.uk/products/productdetails.aspx?p=656


Maybe Roland has perceived the 76 note arranger market as rather too small to bother with anymore?

That leaves only the Audya and PA2XPro as current 76-note arrangers.

Ian

It looks like Roland think the ENTIRE arranger market isn't worth the bother any more, at least all but bottom price budget stuff...

And if any DGX had a FRACTION of the capabilities of even an S910, they'd have no-one complaining. But they still refuse to put a TOTL, or even MOTL arranger ENGINE in any affordable, portable 88, let alone a 76.

I never have understood, when Yamaha have shown the capability to basically dominate arranger sales in the 61 arena, why they choose not to finish of the beast. You have your competition by the jugular, you don't let him slip out your grasp and find a niche market that allows him to survive...

Its still their latest TOTL arranger... even if discontinued..

Seems like Roland left the TOTL arranger market, and is only producing some budget stuff and no more TOTL arrangers.

Anyway Yamaha is still the only company NOT producing 76 key arranger keyboards.

And espescially the older folks overhere in europe are so used to 61 key formfactor that they do not even bother looking at 76 key music station. But the younger people do.

So whats the difference between the older and the younger... Older people come from home organs, younger people addapted a more piano lie playstyle and so prefer 76 keys most of the time.

Actually not, Bachus. The E80 was about two years younger than the G70 (and yes, I know it's not a 76! But it WAS the TOTL). Reports vary depending on country whether the E80 is officially discontinued or not... They ARE hard to find, though.

In the meantime, these things are VERY durable, bombproof almost A good condition used one is probably little different from showroom condition, except maybe $2k cheaper...

I have to agree with you on that... forgot about the E80, maybe because i liked the G70 so much more

Still think its a pitty Roland left the high end arranger market for now.

I started to see the writing on the wall when Roland didn't simply pack the E80 in a G70 case and sell it as the G80... That, at least, would have kept the product line ticking over with minimal re-tooling, got a few people to upgrade from G70 or bring in a few from other companies.

E80 had three times the MFX insert effects that G70 had, twice (or is it 3X?) the SRX slots, lyrics for styles display (G70 only has lyrics for SMF's), .BMP graphics output for displaying lead sheet images, and an upgrade gave it MP3 playlist capabilities. It had a lot more samples from some premium SRX boards (while it lost a few Sound Canvas oldies that were in the G70 for legacy compatibility), two separate Mastering FX sections, one for style/smf, one for keyboard side (stopped getting crispy on the keyboard side from ducking the accompaniment) and many other fixes and additions (fixed velocity for Parts for organs and old-school synth sounds e.g.).

If they had JUST put that in a G70 case and fixed a couple of niggles, I MIGHT have gone for it, I'm sure many G-series fans would have gone for it, and it would have addressed a bunch of 'missing feature' naysayers from other camps. Why Roland couldn't be bothered to do this escapes me...

But their departure from the MOTL and TOTL areas seems to have decided upon at LEAST three years ago, when the E80 wasn't repackaged as a G...

Anyway, I'm glad they never informed anybody... it kept the used prices of TOTL Roland's down Now, they might be collectors' pieces... the LAST Roland high end arrangers EVER (glad I've got TWO! )