I had some comments about what James is doing with the MS but didn't want to hijack his very informative and mostly educational thread. In fact, some of my thoughts have as much to do with James' thread as with the MS itself. Here are some thoughts and conclusions (opinions, really) based solely on James' MS thread. Let's start with the premise that I had/was seriously considering buying one.

James undertaking, presumably on our behalf and for our benefit (admirable, BTW), could only be done by someone who thoroughly enjoys this type of thing, has the computer expertise, sound design background, synth background, and teaching/presentation skills to pull it off. Luckily for us, James has all of these attributes. That's the good news.

The bad news is that he has made it clear to me that I, at this age and stage of my life, will never, ever purchase a Mediastation or any similar 'open architecture' type keyboard. That is not to say that this is not a great machine, but more a statement of who should and who should not, buy it. Old codgers with limited patience, diminished technical skills, and an increasing demand for instant gratification, are definitely NOT the target market for this type of instrument. Even with the best GUI in the world, just the staggering number of options in itself would be more of an impediment than a help. Ol' folks don't like too many choices . I'm guessing a fair number of SZ'ers don't even understand the nature of the 'bugs' James is trying to point out, much less the workarounds.

I buy a lot of things that I KNOW are complex, overkill for my needs, and costing lots more than the scaled down version that WOULD fit my needs better. We just have a tendency to want TOTL. We always think that we'll delve into it's advanced capabilities at some future time, but that time, of course, never comes. I doubt if I'm alone in this pattern of behavior. I think one of the reasons I walk right pass a bunch of gear in my studio (including two TOTL arrangers and several pretty sophisticated workstations - Motif/Fantom G) and straight to my organ (Nord C1) is that I can just hit the power button and start playing. It's the only thing that seems to have any staying power in terms of interest. I think that is because the emphasis is on music and playing rather than on the technology. I think Vagro said pretty much the same thing.

Does this mean that I don't think that KB's such as the MS are the future? Absolutely not. Just not MY future. As I've always said, I'm really lazy.

Ok, those were just some of MY thoughts. In the words of Semi-live, "carry on".

chas

MS / Groove has options that are very easy to learn and use. but also things that you need more time to learn. it is not true that MS / Groove may mean nothing to people who like to use simple things.

MS/Groove has made many things easier, especially for people who simply want to have everything under control on one box.

it depends where for and how use MS/Groove.

for some people, MS / Groove is best complement alongside their existing arranger.
these people have no extra need to learn. MS /Groove is very easy to learn.

those MS / Groove want as their main arranger. these people need more and more things to learn. but it is not that difficult to learn or impossible to learn.

MS / Groove looks difficult while it's not difficult. everything has easy and difficult aspects.

I guess what you're saying is that old people are not up to a new learning cycle and stick to what they know.

I am just saying young people will love it... And young people have the future

Just, apparently, not the ability to turn their facility with technology into any listenable music...

Guess us old farts still have the edge, eh?

Everything has a learning curve, some more so than others. Most people don't even know how to use all the features on their existing closed keyboards but yet they are still comfortable with them and what they know about them.

The same attitude can be applied to the Mediastation. You don't need to know everything, just learn how to use what you need to use and let the rest just sit there until your ready to explore it at a later date, or not at all.

Same as you do with any keyboard.

Even after that said, ideally if this sort of technology still sounds daunting then if you can afford to it would make a fantastic second keyboard and give you great comfort in taking the time to explore it and start using it as a Giga File machine alongside your arranger.

There is near next to no learning curve to use it as a Giga File machine at all actually and the benefits are simply mind blowing. In time then maybe then move onto VSTi's and eventually to using it as an Arranger maybe as I think that might be the hardest part for people to get their head around if they find the concept daunting at all.

All in all though there's not a lot to it when you get stuck in, but as I said you don't need to know it all either.

Technology like this is the future though no matter how much you try resist it. Younger people growing up now don't even give technology a second though to try learn. They simply adapt to it like a duck to water.

Regards
James.

[This message has been edited by Irishacts (edited 03-28-2010).]

I won't accept the fact that old people cannot learn new things. I am crowding seventy and learning everday. I do think that older people may get into set routines and have to drive themselves harder to accomplish new goals, however. Even if you set out to learn one new function a week, I think far greater sounds is worth it. It depends on whether or not you are willing to put in the work involved.

I will never be a James or Dominico, or a lot of you, but this is sure easier than a pure pc based system.

Bernie

Offcourse it is...

A PC system you start designing from scratch..

A system like mediastation you only need to learn and use it, no designing required.

I can't stress how important the custom OS is either in simplifying things.

Just look at the video I uploaded on Giga files. Makes using giga files childs play.

Regards
James

I have said for the longest time, probably since post #1 on the MS, back in the late Jurassic that the concept of the open arranger is a great one. But until someone makes one with the CONTENT as good sounding and as well integrated as a closed one OOTB, it's going to miss 95% of the arranger market.

You are right, James, many people don't use even 10% of what their closed arranger is capable of doing, but the fact is, THEY DON'T NEED TO. Turn it on, it sounds great, let's just make some MUSIC...

Now, 'potentially', there's nothing to stop an open arranger from being equally as friendly, equally as easy to use for the casual user (that 95% of the arranger market Dom ought to be drooling over getting his hands on), but until one of the manufacturers of this kind of product decides to go head to head with the rest of the industry in providing the CONTENT as well as the hardware, it's going to remain nothing more than a niche product.

It's pretty obvious that Dom isn't thinking along those lines, but it's a dangerous path to walk, IMO, because if someone DOES go this route, to be honest, they are going to KILL him dead, saleswise. I've long said, how well do you think a MotifXS or Oasys would have sold if it came with NO sounds, no loops, no arps, basically empty? I guarantee, probably at least 50% poorer than they do now. And these things are being sold to people that DO want to make their own content, eventually (maybe, OK, possibly ).

But honestly, James, given a choice between an open arranger that came like the MS, basically where you have to do quite some considerable work to make the whole thing (not just individual lead sounds) sound spectacular, and one that sounded that good when you hit the power button, and it STILL has all the expandability and customization of the MS, which would you choose?

Dom had better hope and pray that no-one EVER gives us that choice. Or he will be a distant memory.

No, but I AM saying that not many "old people" are willing to shell out 3-5 grand for a deferred-gratification ANYTHING; especially when there are other cheaper, easier-to-use, instant-gratification options. It's kind of like you need to get to another country in a hurry and are willing to shell out 4 or 5 million to get there. You are given a Learjet, a set of keys, and an operating manual. Good luck. You might get there eventually (maybe with the help of a do-it-yourself video by James ) but it won't be soon and I guarantee you won't be able to get any passengers to take that maiden flight with you.

I'm not against learning a new instrument. I just don't want it to be my primary focus. The greatest instrument in the world in the hands of a lousy musician is still going to produce lousy music, wherein a great musician is going to make just about anything sound good. Let's face it, there are way more capable keyboards out there than there are capable keyboard players. Maybe it's time to shift our emphasis and stop obsessing over the next 'latest, greatest'. JMO.

chas