Last night at my Wildwood, NJ job (Alfes), I set up the three current sound systems I use...this venue is with the band (Just In Time)...

Our most recent primary set up are the Podiums 1204's (pair)..they replaced the Yorkville's NX520p (pair)..

Saturday at Alfes brings around 150-175 patrons in the lounge and adjacent restaurant areas..

I use the Edirol M-10dx mixer and a Alesis sub mixer for addition vocals (when needed)..

I started the night with the Podiums (just the Podiums)...with the usual great results, great coverage and great bass response...I have these on tripod poles..

after a little time past, I blended in the Roland BA330 (This is the Pa I wanted to test in this venue...I could hear the BA330 cut thru the Podium mix easily without pushing the BA330 at all..

Second set, I switched my keyboard set up to my "old" pair of Roland Cubes..using the Edirol mixer with the RAC feature...let me tell you I have always been a fan of my Roland Cubes...but the RAC feature sets them up perfect...there is literally no other system I would trade for what I get from the "oldie but goodies...."

I ran the vocals out of the Podiums (singers like their voice on poles...and my vocals and keyboard from the Cubes..
I also tried the BA330 as an accent to the cubes, giving a nice presence...The only thing I noticed ..the sound using the BA330 with the Cubes, I needed to defeat the RAC (room acoustic control), because it was used to set up the Cubes only, and had an extreme eq curve with the BA330...

It did sound terrific...

I might add the Podiums 1204's with the RAC also sound great..

I used the BA330 exclusively on breaks...and it was great, plenty of volume and good bass too..

Alfe's has a fairly large room with adjoining dining rooms..the sound was heard thru out the place even back to the second lounge area ..4 area locations away...It even sounded good in the rest rooms ..at least the men's room ..

The last set with a lot of folks leaving for the night, I used the BA330..only ...for the band including vocals...and never exceeded half volume...I still had plenty of head room ...and a great full sound to boot..

What I learned experimenting in a live venue...

Though the Podiums are our go to system (owned now by the band)...The given choice with shear power and coverage..not to mention..the best bass you will find...the Cubes under the Edirol RAC...are simply unbeatable...

Patron consensus ..folks that knew what I was trying to test..confirmed 100 percent unity..that the Rolands were the best of the systems I used..

I also know now I would not hesitate to use just a BA330 in any room, even 200 plus people, were coverage is a must..the quality of the sound fills the room nicely and bass is good..not a thumping bass that the Podiums and needless to say the Cubes ..but more than adequate..

One of our SZ members were there with his lovely wife ...maybe Bill will add his comments..they may be different than my view...

Great review Fran.....Tues Ill check it all out also after dinnner.......cya

Fran,

How about recording something using a Zoom H2 or similar recorder and post it so we can hear the results.

Gary

Gary, how would recording show the results of a live test...a comparison would be difficult at best..I think I can verbally describe a comparison.. then what a recording can tell...after all the listening of the results would be as good as the compressed file and for the most part...a pc sound system...


Is my logic wrong?...

Gary...of course we could have a PA shoot out...and do live comparisons... We can all get together...and have dinner too..

Donny and I are going over Gary M's house Tuesday..and Donny will get a first hand look/sound of an improved Bose set up..and also a hands on demonstration of the Helicon Live 2....

I know you think I have slighted the Bose in the past..in saying there is a mid range problem from the factory....but I can bet...anyone will agree after hearing the difference using the RAC feature (Edirol)...We can wait and see how DNJ feels after the comparison on Tuesday..

BTW: I have heard Dave's big Bose ..we shared the same stage one night at Alfes..and Yes the Bose also carried the room well...but you can bet your bottom dollar it would not have the same result as my "RAC'd Roland Cubes"...

The Bose subs don't match the RAC'd Cubes...15's just rule in the bass "thump" department..

I don't know if it will help , but I will record video of the Bose demonstration with and without the RAC on Tuesday..

As long as the recording levels were the same, effect, channel and amp levels are the same and you use the same codec/device and bitrate for each MP3 file, then listeners will definitely hear if there are any differences.

Far better than ANY written words. You just got to read what manufacturers SAY about their products and then actually listen to them


D

I have to disagree. You should listen to the Bose 502 sub box (now discontinued). It would TOTALLY blow away most subs in the under $3000 category. And it only has a 12" speaker. So no, 15" speakers do not always rule.

Just another audio industry assumption. Very misleading for the most part too.


And a pair of the PAS Bose subs, fight way above their weight class as well imo.

I managed to once do a comparo between them and the Mackie 15swa1501, and the Mackie was NOT in the race. And when pushed, made the bass response quite sloppy, whilst the Bose retained REAL bite and punch throughout its designed performance range.

Again another industry assumption that the Mackie box is a super powered sub. It is a good box, but not the be all and end all.

I say all this to simply reinforce that ONLY by listening can a prospective purchaser make the right decision for them. It cannot be done soley on the written word of another user.


D

Dennis that may be a given, but I don't believe it would show the quality of the sound comparisons...compared to the actual live test..sure it may illustrate that there is a difference, but I am not sure it would show what really did sound better...

But as for the Bose demonstration Tuesday..I will record it..

Cool, that would be good to listen to Fran

D

Dennis my comparison, was not a sub woofer comparison..but stated the full range Cube 15" is way superior to the Bose L1 "sub woofer"

I can get a great bass response from the Podium 1204..also as good or better than a Bose L1 sub woofer...but the Roland 15" outclasses the Podium too in the bass department........not even close..

Last week, we worked a room in Philly...around 250 people..the DJ played our breaks with the house system JBL's and extra LS (never heard of them) 15" with horns (front of stage monitors)..the house system is distributed throughout the room..Most considered the house PA as an excellent system..

We (the band) used the Podium 1204's for vocals and a pair of the Roland Cubes (RAC'd)....and the result....(not just our opinion)...our stage set up blew away the house system...in every department...bass that out did the subwoofer and a fullness not heard on the house system...

A week prior at another Philly venue..around 200 people..almost the same JBL sound system...and our same set up....same results...

There is no doubt in my mind that this system (our current stage sound) is unbeatable.....25 year old 15" rule...

Nah, I still disagree. 15's are good, but they are not ALWAYS the best

D

5000 year rule, just coz someone says it does not make it so!!!

We agree to disagree...

BTW: I am not talking anyone into buying what I found to be the best I have used....especially since we are talking about 25 year old product...

The experimentation at my venue was for my purpose and reported so...

Basically to see where the BA330 fits and how it fairs to much larger systems...

The escalation into Bose and 15" etc is slightly off the topic...

Fran,

Sorry I couldn't get back to this sooner. Unfortunately, I'm tied up for the next three weeks, mainly performing, but also getting the boat ready to go in the water, which should be about the 15th.

As for the recording, if you do it using the recorder's mics--not line inputs, and place the recorder a reasonable distance from the speakers, lets say about 50 feet, then we should be able to hear any subtle differences between the systems. Naturally, the recorder would have to be set exactly the same for each recording, and the same songs would have to be recorded to provide the same degree of accuracy. It ain't rocket science.

Gary

Fran, this Edirol unit sounds interesting. I run a fairly new Roland Cube 100 Bass Amp, just the one. Can you tell me how you set the eq on your cubes. Do you set it flat, then let the Edirol do the rest, or does it even work like that?

Yes..set your amp to unity...the mixer reads the amp (in stereo)...so you need to run the left and right into 2 channels...keep the same setting eq wise..

The Edirol (M-10dx) uses white noise and analyzes the speaker and the room...it creates a flat signal for all 16 frequencies...it retains the RAC when powered off..

If you desire you can fine tune to your own pleasure for each freq. band...I have found the RAC nails it on it's own..

LOL, yeah thats cool

Fran and everyone
Sorry for the delayed response. Just got back from Cape May
Really enjoyed the night at Alfie's. Good dinner and great music. You sequences are right on and the Prelude running them sounded fantastic. Your singers are a class act.
OK lets talk sound systems.
First set--- sounded fine with just the Podium 12's. For one nighters thats all I would bring if I were you. Everyone was happy and dancing.
Second set.--- When you kicked in the Roland 100's we could "feel" the bass and the fullness overall increased. I must say so did the overall volume. Really though its no surprise. We all know and I again had it confirmed with my conversation with the Roland rep. BIg heavy cabinets are good for bass. My KX220's or your Roland 100's--- 70lbs each but they all kick. They really kick my a** when I have to move them to an upstairs affair. The problem is most of us are looking for smaller and lighter. Seems to be coming along with newer products. BA330 SA300
Third set --- DAMN I LEFT. My real desire was to really hear what the BA330 could do and I missed it!! Did you really play everything (two vocalists and sequences) through it alone????? Hard to believe. Imagine what two of them could do?? Total of about 60 lbs??
Again my friends and I had a great night and will be back soon.
We WILL have to hook up someday for some live chat.


Thanks

Bill in NJ

Thanks for the report, Bill. With luck, I'll be sailing to Cape May this July and get to hear Fran's setup live. I just want to hear what his audience is hearing, which is why I suggested recording identical songs using the same primary systems, but with changes in the PA. And, recording both from the same distance of 50 feet, which is also an important aspect. I've always been amazed at how great some systems sounded close up, but when you get some distance away the falloff, particularly in high and mid range frequencies, was horrible.

Thanks again,

Gary

Bill glad you had a great time in Cape may.....Fran's group "JUST IN TIME"
http://justintimeband.homestead.com/

Kicks butt down the shore almost every night in the clubs...I love when I'm not performing to catch their show, a good time is always had by all.....