Hardly....but, it's good to see you've learned something from all the old thread resurrecting.

Unfortunately, I'm not quite convinced, at least not until I hear the audio and midi guitar parts on their own.

In the long run, I suppose that hardly matters, as I'm not going to buy one, but I can't say I could recommend one to someone either.

Thanks for all your trouble.

Ian

Hey this thread reminds me of the "good old days"......mine is better...

A few comments from me...some may be offended by a remark or two....but keep in mind...these are my opinions only..

First off ...to stir the pot a bit...

I have been a Yamaha fan for many years...mostly early 80's thru 90's....the Yamaha arrangers did not fall in my favorite list...never...Just personal opinion...maybe being able to have other arranger keyboards to side by side compared, helped my opinion..

I always purchased the Yamaha arrangers but always left me wanting more...in some cases less (dang hand clap)..
I have owned along line of PSR's ..6700, 500, 320, 740, 2000, 2100 etc..I passed on the 3000, 900...and also the 9000...I played Uncle Dave's..that was enough,..same repackaged stuff...

Likewise, I had the Tyros3 for a very short time...I just could not see what you guys got excited about... the new owner likes it..

I have been dealing and using Solton/Ketron products since the early 80's....I wouldn't worry about them folding tent anytime soon...Solton/Ketron users are the most loyal and pleased consumers....period.

Sure they are a small company....compared to the "big 3"....but they have always retained their market share...

Now about the quality..hardware and sound..

Solton/Ketron has always been at the top in both categories....the majority of the sounds beat the competition...in my opinion..of course there are other manufacturers that have certain sounds that are head and shoulders better....The SA guitar from Yamaha...the Scat and choir from Roland (GS)..etc..(sorry I can't think of a standout from Korg at the moment..I am sure they must have...one)...

The early Solton MS series were the cream of the crop, in the sound department..always full sound and very realistic for leads etc..(early 80's)...

The Ketron X1...completely dominated the sound dept....The famous bass/drums...and styles were teriffic..and the quality lead voices were great too...Back then 1998-1999, I was using the Roland G1000 and a Ketron X1....The X1 over-matched most of the G1000 in the sounds area, but was out done by the G1000 is sequence playback (GS)...I also preferred the G1000 OS over the Ketron...and actually this remains true today..I prefer the Roland /E80 OS over the SD series..

I have always thought that Ketron needed to improve things with their OS.....Maybe I would be one of those dedicated Ketron guys like DanO...if the OS equaled my Roland stuff..

BTW: I always disliked the PSR/Tyros OS too..too many button pushes and "crossword puzzles" to get where I want to go....

I still think Roland is unmatched in operating procedures.....Sure it could be what we are use too.....

From what I hear from the Audya....it is simply the best sounding keyboard...not just arranger, in the closed keyboard market..

Well Fran, in order for you to offend somebody, they would have to take you seriously...I'm sorry, but I just can't quite do that yet...thankfully.

Ian

what i LOVE about Ketron is simplicity and sound

i'm referring to basic things like VOLUME sliders for each track, BAM,

G-70 on other hand, though simple OS, not as EASY to do the simple things, more button/screen presses

and the sound of Ketron,
GOTTA try it to BELIEVE,
key word here is TRY IT,
of course the problem for many is finding one within 1,000 miles of your home :-)
hi Diki :-)

How hard is it to turn up the volumne of one part and equal the balance on any keyboard ?

Might be very heard trying to balance audio and midi guitars.

From the demos I heard, someone didn't do such a great job on them, so I imagine a new user may find it a bit tough...if the factory programmers couldn't pull it off quite right, what are the chances the user will?

Ian

But you are not "discussing" anything.

You are being deliberately derogatory about an opposition product, continually ranting about Yamaha in your quest to rubbish everything else in the quest to sell more product.

You were being deliberately obtuse when it came to guitar voicings, and you profess to be this great musician and player!! And the almighty wise one of everywhere you visit and play.

Every musician KNOWS a guitar cannot play the voicings of chords that can be achieved on a keyboard.

Ketron have been brilliant in keeping the voicings of the recordings exactly as a live guitarist would play (well lets face it they ARE live guitar parts).

Yamahas vocings are unreal and some of the chords achievable are KEYBOARD inversions, and sound totally fake, and to be honest ridiculous.

Its those voicings that make arrangers sound cheesy, for the most part. Yamaha more than most. Not too mention as interesting as a week old pancake. And dull to boot.

You guys at Yamaha are so piqued that you didn't get these things developed sooner.

I have no doubt that Yamaha ARE working on similar software, and we ALL know that as soon as they do, you Ian , will be singing the praises from every rooftop ONLY because its a Yamaha product.

And you will conveniently forget ALL the negative crap you have been spouting here, and turn it into positive Yamaha spin.

I don't know why TWD wastes his time with you, as you are deliberately trying to "poison the well". I do not, for one second, believe you trying to genuinely ascertain facts about the keyboard.

And further TWD should not worry about your opinion, sheesh, NO-ONE else on SZ does.

Ahhhh miden...do you feel better now, dear little fellow?

I appreciate your frustration...I've been trying to get some decent demos of the Audya all day.

Could you make some for me...please?

Ian

How about a good old shootout? Pistols (oops, I meant arrangers ) at dawn. Two arrangers enter, one arranger leaves?

What so far has failed to have been produced is a straight comparison. TWD came up with some guitar, but admittedly, buried a little. OTOH, Ian has failed to come up with ANYTHING (except his acerbic opinion ) in the way of a comparison.

You know, to be fair, I have YET to hear Yamaha's new NTT's soloed. Nothing up at their sites AFAIK. So we only have Ian's OPINION how good they are. Which has as much value as Lee's I want to HEAR how much better (or not) they are over the Audya's loops as applied to SOLO'D acoustic guitar strumming with a complex set of chords and passing chords.

So, how about it, gentlemen? (all evidence to the contrary )

Pick a set of chord progressions (maybe those from TWD's example), solo the acoustic track, record the results. Proof of the pudding is in the listening, not the incessant yacking

Put your money where your mouths are...

(Korg users, feel free to show off your Guitar Mode, too, if you want in on this bitchslap-fest!)

Thanks Miden, I appreciate your comments.

Actually I have been stuck at home today, my car was in the garage and I have a terrible cold so took the opportunity to chill out with an Audya. As it happened the day was quite enjoyable and the banter with Ian brought to light things that I had taken for granted. I am not worried about converting Ian to Ketron; you can lead a horse and all that...particuarly as he hasn't had the opportunity to try one. I thought for the sake of everyone else on the forum this silly guitar midi vs live thing should be settled.

If Ian hadn't taken this line of offence I would never have discovered how the Audya handles chords and inversions - the keyboard continues to astound me.

The track posted down in the Ketron forum is clear enough and i don't think there is any need to spend more time making recordings to prove the point. That song (still waiting for someone to guess the name of the it by the way) has some challenging chord changes and inversions with a nice flavour of 'exotic' chords too.

If we start posting just the guitar tracks Ian will be sending them to Yamaha's R&D for anaylsis Next thing you know they will be on the T4 ..lol

I am increasing the prize to guess the song name to 200 points PLUS a free pint of Guiness in the bar later