Nothing really new is sparking interest...most units are just rehashed, remixed, and always leaving out something the end user he or she yearns for. Cabin fever sets in and you keep, deal with, workaround with what you already have, you keep searching, reconfiguring, buying, selling, wondering, trading, hoping, researching, listening to pros/cons from who knows who's rumors for the next greatest new Arranger that will come to market.....oh man, it's killing you inside, maybe it's the high prices, maybe you don't like the sound of what you have, or for one second you say to yourself maybe I should go totally VST computer based to make my music?....AHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!! as the cabin fever reaches a fever pitch WHAT AM I GONNA DO NEXT?!!! Then it hits you......you finally realize you have to either Wait for who knows how long or Keep what you have, or put all these ideas back in the tumbler for tomorrow and tumble it all up again...time after time, what to do?.......what to do? Then it hits you...does anyone really care or am I the only one?
oh wait......is that the UPS man at the door?.....sadly he passes up your house again and rides into the sunset..........when will it end?...
WHEN WILL IT END?????

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 04-07-2010).]

Great post Donny. I just ordered a Behringer Bass/Kbd EQ pedal. I had to have something... hope this beefs up my s910 piano without having to use a mixer. We'll see.

Donny, I'm going to respond (sincerely) although it will probably raise a storm of protest (or maybe just plain hatred).

It will NEVER end as long as one waits for SOMEONE ELSE'S creativity to provide the satisfaction they're looking for. What you're describing is classic boredom; boredom with the styles that just don't seem to spark the same excitement and enthusiasm that they used to. It's going to sound hugely annoying for me to say "that's why I play organ", still, I'm not bored, I'm not sitting around waiting for the next great set of sounds and styles to delude me into thinking that I'm putting out a better product on stage. I get the same kick out of sitting down to my organ now as I did 30-40 years ago. I love just having to learn the changes and then playing the tune exactly as I want to hear it. I have fun recording BS in my 'studio' and playing with all the incredible new electronics that have developed since I first sat down at a B3 so many years ago (before that, I drove my parents crazy with banging away for hours on the beautiful Chickering grand in our living room) but for me it was always the playing and I always enjoyed playing for and by myself as much as for other people. Bored? Really bored? Learn a couple of new tunes but learn them first on an acoustic piano (or synth in manual piano mode) and work out the arrangement on the piano and in your head before you ever crank up the old arranger. At least at some point in the process, the tune, the arrangement, the performance, was all yours. Plus, it allows you into the 'guts' of the song.

Now I'm not saying "sell your arranger and go back to actually playing". That would not be economically feasible for a lot of the working pro's here. I'm just saying, make it more about the music than about sitting around waiting on the next new (or rehashed) batch of technology to get your (musical) juices flowing again. JMO.

chas

PS: Pleas don't post an angry reply. As I said, it's JUST MY OPINION.


[This message has been edited by cgiles (edited 04-07-2010).]

Cass....that sounds very interesting please keep us informed on it when you try it out on your rig ok/

d.

Good posts by both Donny and Chas.

Boredom? Yep, it can sneak up on you.

What I do is try something different; usually I'll work on making styles....I'll dig around through some old fake books...I try using completely different styles for tunes, like a jazz waltz in place of a 4/4 jazz ballad, or vice versa.

Sometimes I get into doing some recording, either with the arranger and my CS01 synth plugged in the line-in, or maybe a piano improv, that I'll add some manual bass to, or even use the keys to play in the drum tracks.

I also walk about a mile or so a day...inclement weather has me walking in the Mall, but it's still getting out and being around people.

My restaurant gig of 12 or so years is finished...the place closed last month, so now I've decided to work on some recordings, and arrangements.

New gear won't fix it....I'm fine with just the PSR-910, a P-85 piano and my little CS01 synth...the Jupiter 8 is rented out to a studio for the next few months.

It's easy to slide into a slump, and sometimes difficult to get out...or even to realize you are in one.

One good thing is to talk about and express those feelings...just like Donny is doing.

Just my thoughts.

Ian

Chas......believe me Ive been playing professionally since I was 14 years old....For so many years playing keyboard, bass, guitar, drums, sax..was all I knew and being part of many band, doing thousands of shows with so many groups, which I always loved the camaraderie, creation process of arranging songs, and developing a certain sound, playing off each others talents on stage is unparalleled for 25 years on the road and something I really miss since due to economic times for the last 17 years that I've been a single act in order to survive in this wacky business. I understand your feeling and I can feel it in your writing that you are very passionate about playing music, your instrument, organ & keyboard playing & in many ways I wish times were different again like it was in the past. With all the choices out there it's easy to become a lazy musician. Man I remember sitting down at my B3 an throwing those toggle switches to start er' up and listening to the motors rotate would give me a major adrenalin boost rush my body. Watching a monster player like Tony Monaco or Joey D, or Mark Stein "Vanilla Fudge" play makes me go nuts also!!! WOW!! One instrument ....One man.... playing and making it an extension of his soul is what playing is all about, and I get that feeling no matter what instrument I hear someone playing being it a Acoustic Guitar, Flute, Oboe, Fiddle, Cornet, or a Tuba, if the love is put in to it, the love will flow thru it and out the other side!!. What's also sad is that audiences are starting to get a very apathetic attitude and couldn't care less how or why its happening due to the saturation of DJ's,KJ's, and every other kind of fake music there is out there and that's sad. So we curl up in our own slice of the pie and enjoy what WE like as WE still have that ability thank the lord...we can also share our feeling as we are doing here and share our music playing in ways unheard of 20 years ago via computer....
I used to be a buying gear nutcase but in the last few years I have really settled down and before I buy something I ask myself "DO I REALLY NEED THIS?" which most time, money no object, the answer is a resounding NO!! ....so where are we?.......what I need to earn on stage is one kind of gear.....what I love to play record etc in my home is a totally other scenario and gear but more toward what you have divulged in your post above ..I appreciate your passion and it hasn't gone unnoticed its very contagious and I caught some of it when I was reading your reply.
hang in there buddy...lock yourself in your studio crank up your C1 organ and let er rip!!!! We'll talk more......i hope others chime in also here.

d.

For some strange reason (probably my mind has gone to hell), I'm not bored, and I'm not looking for new gear. I'm happy as a clam, still playing nearly every day, and most of the time I try to learn at least one new song a week, which is always fun.

Cheers,

Gary

What you play ON is probably the least important thing for a musician to worry about. HOW WELL you play should probably be #1. WHAT you play maybe #2. WHO you play with, maybe #3 (for me, it's higher).

But the gear... We've all seen amazing players playing in amazing bands on really crappy gear. And it made our jaws drop..!

Start to think like that, and the postman coming to the door won't excite you in the least...

Diki....I agree to a point with you.....
but, #3 playing with others doesn't necessarily require an arranger KB and opens up a whole new world for the musician, more choices, more gear old or new to choose from to play with others.

I find this boredom thing strange...

I am not bored at all with what I have or the way I play...

Could I get "bored" with playing the same styles? Absolutely.....maybe I don't get bored this way...because... I don't rely on styles...I would rather play without the "auto play"...except as a drum machine...I have always enjoyed playing left hand bass, drums and what ever combination of accent sounds to use with piano or EP..

Secondly, I find it much better, to play over sequences (SMF) than playing with styles..It doesn't mean I would not use styles, just no where as often as most folks here...
As mentioned by Diki in another post..I find it much more fulfilling to play over SMF's...and as Diki mentioned..I believe the skill level is higher to play over sequences than styles (short clips of sequences)...The final comparison of performance is far superior to the customers that listen...You portray ..more like the record...and it can be personalized as you want by the way you play your parts..

If I had to sit through 4 hours listening to "arranger play" only....as an audience.....now you are talking "bored"..

60 or 70 arranger songs with out a break...puts me over the edge...

Try using MP3's and SMF's...play over them..you may find out what I am talking about...break out of the "arranger" mode...even if you turn off some arranger parts...The full blown style play..is over done..

Now!!!! When it comes to "new toys"...I need to play too..it is so boring ..not having new toys.. .....but not my trusted "go to" keyboard choice..

I find this boredom thing strange...

I am not bored at all with what I have or the way I play...

Could I get "bored" with playing the same styles? Absolutely.....maybe I don't get bored this way...because... I don't rely on styles...I would rather play without the "auto play"...except as a drum machine...I have always enjoyed playing left hand bass, drums and what ever combination of accent sounds to use with piano or EP..

Secondly, I find it much better, to play over sequences (SMF) than playing with styles..It doesn't mean I would not use styles, just no where as often as most folks here...
As mentioned by Diki in another post..I find it much more fulfilling to play over SMF's...and as Diki mentioned..I believe the skill level is higher to play over sequences than styles (short clips of sequences)...The final comparison of performance is far superior to the customers that listen...You portray ..more like the record...and it can be personalized as you want by the way you play your parts..

If I had to sit through 4 hours listening to "arranger play" only....as an audience.....now you are talking "bored"..

60 or 70 arranger songs with out a break...puts me over the edge...

Try using MP3's and SMF's...play over them..you may find out what I am talking about...break out of the "arranger" mode...even if you turn off some arranger parts...The full blown style play..is over done..

Now!!!! When it comes to "new toys"...I need to play too..it is so boring ..not having new toys.. .....but not my trusted "go to" keyboard choice..

Apparently, I felt so strongly about this issue....I posted it twice...

I am glad you brought that up. These days, Ionly play out 3 or 4 times a week, but the gigs are very different. I play with a seniors band and use a Nord Electro with a Ketron SD2 and vArranger. Another day I need an arranger, and use my Roland G70 or Technics KN7000. Another day, I don't need an arranger and bring my Kurzweil K2661.

Coming up with different combinations and honing the sounds and styles, makes life and absolute joy.

Bernie

Donny, I have to say, what you wrote above is one of the best, well thought out, posts that I've seen on Synthzone. Honest, introspective, and relatable. Didn't know you had it in you . I think most of the long-suffering pro's can relate to the career scenario that you described (and described so well). Great post (and you know we don't agree on much ).

chas

Me, I don't care whether it's full band, smaller combo, or just OMB. I get the vast majority of enjoyment from the MUSIC I play, rather than a revolving door of GEAR I play it on.

So, for me, with the G70 I simply have a tool sufficiently good to not embarrass me with any sound, and let it go at that. My audiences would MUCH rather be wowed with great playing than a great sound and maybe not so great playing! I must confess, I have got to the point where it's VERY hard to find a situation other than TOTL recording where the G70 doesn't cover all the bases. Not perhaps the best 'pure' arranger out there, but by FAR the best all-rounder, good for everything, good enough for what style mode I DO use (I'm with Fran on this one, or he's with me, whatever ).

I simply don't see the point of a variety of rigs for different situations. ONE piece of gear you are intimately familiar with beats a roomful of gear you have to stop and think 'How do I do THIS on this one?' in the heat of battle... On this point I'm with chas. Except it isn't the B3 I want to crank up. It's the G70. But for the same reasons...

Many would dissagree with you Fran here but I actually agree with you especially in a dancing situation every night....gotta mix it up....good post!......

Diki, good post ...I dumped my G70 for ONE reason only...the weight and size period.
Other then that I enjoyed everything feature wise it offered.



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 04-07-2010).]

Chas thank you and sometimes I scare myself with my thoughts, but you definitly hit a nerve and I had to share my feelings with you here. Wish we were a bit closer.

On one hand I agree totally with Donny's original post. However, given the following factors, such as growing older, the business changing, family needs taking over, ect and ect, it is different at least for me today. I had the B 3 and I once thought that if we could sound like the Vanilla Fudge, we could rule the world. Those days are gone. Like Gary, I play hundreds of gigs per year with the arranger, I make a lot of people happy, and quite frankly I'm happy with that. I gave up my last band because we had so few gigs I could never get the same players each time, so eventually I could do more with my arrnager than with a pick up band.

Joe

Wow, we do mix many of our thoughts into one, I see it a bit different.

Part of the joy of playing a keyboard is the excitement and anticipation of the arrival of a new one. Now that I am retired I am still anticipating and still getting excited about the arrival of a new keyboard. I don’t drink, smoke or gamble but I love keyboards. Wanting a new keyboard will stop when I stop.

Being bored is a good thing it is the food that turns a fair playing into a great player. Another mountain to climb, and then another. I would never want to lose my ability to become bored, it’s a blessing. The big question is how am I handling my boredom.

IMHO, John C.

Thing is, as I see it, if a new keyboard doesn't make you play completely new stuff, make you play better than you did before, make you do new techniques you never tried before, how is that musical growth?

An average piano player on a Steinway D isn't a hair better than on an old Samick. But a great player on a Steinway D is STILL a great player on an old Samick!

99% of it all, in the end, is still YOU.

To be honest, most modern MOTL arrangers, let alone TOTL arrangers (and even some BOTL arrangers) are capable of wowing anyone in the hands of a good player, and of providing all the sounds needed for just about anything you need for the foreseeable future. So why not just take whatever energy you expend on researching, lusting after and procuring new toys, and channel it into the PLAYING instead?

That's where any improvement is going to be the most apparent anyway. Short term, sure, your audience and you might notice a change. But after a few weeks, it'll wear off, and if you are still playing the same old licks and tunes you played before, the same way, there won't be anywhere NEAR the improvement that all that money spent was SUPPOSED to bring you...

Focus all you energy and attention on PLAYING, not gear, and while you may not be a much happier person for it (wish I could play like Herbie Hancock a LOT more than I wish I had an Audya!), you'll certainly be a better player for it..!