|
|
|
|
|
|
#285255 - 04/10/10 11:48 AM
Re: Is OS4.0 a good reason to buy an Audya now?
|
Senior Member
Registered: 11/18/01
Posts: 1631
Loc: Ireland
|
My 2 cents, I get an uncomfortable feeling reading the new manual they uploaded on the new features. It's like they are trying to hide something, but just tick a box to say Yeah, it's has that now.
For example, the sampler. Ok so you can record and loop a sound. But what about everything else ? The manual tells you nothing at all. Does it support any known third party formats, can you cross fade, time stretch, truncate, reverse, re-sample... and so on.
The same goes for all the other new functions. Style eidit, is there an event edit mode, step record ?
Why no freaking Sequencer ? This is not acceptable for a keyboard of this price.
And where is the rest of the OS ?. Where are the new sounds ?. If it were finished and ready it would be online. Straight out I'm saying I don't trust Ketron. Bandwidth worries is like a lie to me when there are so many other ways large files can be shared.
Again...my 2 cents.... wait until OS 4.0 is really out, all of it, and people give real feedback on what it actually has.
James.
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#285264 - 04/10/10 02:04 PM
Re: Is OS4.0 a good reason to buy an Audya now?
|
Senior Member
Registered: 06/24/08
Posts: 3131
|
Dnj,
i dont agree
Ketron is Ketron, that LIVE sounding , real band type arranger lots have grown to love
and Roland, Korg, Yammy have that OTHER sound which others have grown to love,
for ME, folk/latin/portuguese musican, KETRON is the WINNER, by a landslide
for you, maybe it's Yamaha,
just TRY one out, if you haven't yet, is all i can say/suggest
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#285270 - 04/10/10 03:13 PM
Re: Is OS4.0 a good reason to buy an Audya now?
|
Senior Member
Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
|
Originally posted by leezone: Ian,
the G-70 is great the AUDYA is GREATER for me of course :-)
Ian, would you ever give the AUDYA a fair chance... and actually try one out live? Perhaps the Audya is greater than the G-70, but it depends on what "greater" means to you. I like an overall balanced sound, not just robust bass and drums...the G-70 (and Tyros3, and Korg PA2Xpro) have a far better balanced sound, when I compare the on-line demos. That makes them "greater" to my ears. I'll probably never see or play an Audya, I'm afraid, for it is too much of a mystery for the music dealers in my territory to risk the investment of bringing one in....so I have to rely on on-line demos for comparison. Other than the more robust (and often, too loud) drums and bass, I fail to hear anything else that trumps similar products by the big three. Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#285272 - 04/10/10 03:27 PM
Re: Is OS4.0 a good reason to buy an Audya now?
|
Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14294
Loc: NW Florida
|
Yeah, it's a real shame that Tony hasn't bothered to be as effusive in his praise of the Audya on THIS forum as much as he was determined to bash it while he had his (mostly self-inflicted) problems a while back. After dominating this forum bashing it incessantly, he ONLY posts his positive comments somewhere else. It unbalances the coverage, IMO. I remember, after trashing the Audya for his button problem, after he actually got around to doing what some of us had suggested for AGES (and he had dismissed as not the answer) and it was finally fixed, he never even BOTHERED to post here saying it was fixed, and how he got it fixed. Now, after slamming it relentlessly for months, he chooses to post all his praise of it on the Ketron forum only. So those trolling this forum for information only have the bad stuff to read. It's just like the newspapers... slander a guy on page one, and print the retraction on page eleven, in with the unread articles... As to the Audya issue, as with most arrangers, I honestly think most people get their likes and dislikes of an arranger FAR more from the ROM styles than they do from any technical aspects of the OS itself. Those that primarily play Latin music are Ketron's most fervent fans. Then those that REALLY want that 'live' sound are the next bunch that admire it... But Korg and Roland (if you discount the guitars in Roland's case) are not THAT far behind it, especially if you voice them right and let the drums be as upfront as Ketron's usually are mixed. And they can be had FAR cheaper than the Audya. But OS4 has introduced MANY quite important features, some of which, yes, SHOULD have come out in OS1 but some of which are quite new and beyond what was initially announced, so it's fair to say that, although the Audya IS a 'work in progress', it's no more a work in progress than say the PA2Xpro, which has been updated to include new features like DNC, but nobody is bitching that that SHOULD have been invcluded in OS1 Let us not forget that Yamaha have a sampler, too, on the T3, but it has next to NO editing, and NO import of any format whatsoever other than its' own (multisample import, that is), and AFAIK, can't even record samples using its' own hardware. So give the Audya a break... for an arranger, its' extra features are pretty much on a par for most arrangers save perhaps the PA2Xpro. And some of them are FAR in advance of Korg's, who still suffer from a paltry three fills, and gets a much bigger break about it than its' users are prepared to give the Audya... To be honest, for every feature missing from an Audya (some of which are pretty irrelevant, IMO, like a full onboard sequencer - no-one doing SERIOUS sequencing is working in the box, these days), it has two or three that nothing else has. Not bad, really! But, if you bother to listen to all the demos available for each arranger, most people's opinion of them still boils down to whether you like the styles or not, and what each of us is looking for in that department varies radically... so it's unsurprising our opinions of the same arranger vary radically, too.
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#285275 - 04/10/10 10:46 PM
Re: Is OS4.0 a good reason to buy an Audya now?
|
Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14294
Loc: NW Florida
|
Apples to apples, please, Nedim... Neko isn't an arranger in the slightest. Audya isn't a VSTi host. Comparing the two (even pricewise) is utterly irrelevant. And just about EVERYTHING is pretty cheap compared with a Steinway D..! But that really has no bearing on whether one arranger is over $1500 MORE than an equivalent TOTL arranger from another manufacturer (equivalent, at least, in the sense that both are the top of their respective ranges). There's much quite unique on an Audya, but OTOH, there's much that is actually missing, too. So it's not like its' almost Wersi-like price point is simply taking everything that the others already have and ADDING the extra stuff. Audya is 'one step forward, one step back', rather than 'one giant leap for mankind', as far as I am concerned...
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#285276 - 04/11/10 06:06 AM
Re: Is OS4.0 a good reason to buy an Audya now?
|
Senior Member
Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 7143
|
Originally posted by Diki: Apples to apples, please, Nedim...
Neko isn't an arranger in the slightest. Audya isn't a VSTi host. Comparing the two (even pricewise) is utterly irrelevant.
And just about EVERYTHING is pretty cheap compared with a Steinway D..! But that really has no bearing on whether one arranger is over $1500 MORE than an equivalent TOTL arranger from another manufacturer (equivalent, at least, in the sense that both are the top of their respective ranges). There's much quite unique on an Audya, but OTOH, there's much that is actually missing, too. So it's not like its' almost Wersi-like price point is simply taking everything that the others already have and ADDING the extra stuff.
Audya is 'one step forward, one step back', rather than 'one giant leap for mankind', as far as I am concerned... I agree.. Neko is in a league of its own....the league of production music station... -PRoduction station -Workstation -Solo synthesizer -Arranger workstation -Home arranger keyboard -Stage piano -Electronic Organ All are digital keyboard instruments (which steinway is not) and all these types of keyboards someway have overlaps... there are no strict borders between these different types of key instruments anymore and its allways possible to compare the taste of 2 different types of fruit with eachother... Next to that... You can always change the Neko intoo an arranger with live-styler, but thats kind of trying to get a pineaple look like an apple...
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#285278 - 04/12/10 04:45 PM
Re: Is OS4.0 a good reason to buy an Audya now?
|
Senior Member
Registered: 01/31/01
Posts: 3602
Loc: Maryland
|
Nedim,
Here are your comments after visiting CMC in New York 02/04/2009. I'm just curious what happened ?
"Now back to start: This particular Audya that i have in front of me is not a finished model, half of the OS is not there, half of Audio loops, its around 50-60% of the Final Audya and yet...no arranger has impressed me this much in my life as up to date, NONE. Hey, thats not a statement, thats only my liking and taste but we are way behind with any existing arranger, forget the internet guessing and rummors, this is not an Arranger, nor competition to PA2X or T3, this is something else, new, a begining of a new thing in music. Now, a 50-60% finished machine impressed me more then any existing machine. God bless me when i recieve the Final Audya and to Lee, yes, it will have a nice EVENT and SAMPLING editor right on it, on the synth, this aint SD5 or something like that. Ok, the INTELIGENT thing was one of the new things:
KEY TUNES: its a new thing and probably the thing that impressed me the most. It works like this, i'll try simple: Lets say we have a KMP and on each Key we have a sample of Improvisation of some instruments, like loop, you hit the key and you hear a nice guitar riff then next key some nice sax solo e tc...yes KMP would do the same thing but it wont...KEYTUNE does it in a different way...it synchs it with the style and what happens to the sax solo is, if you change the style the tempo of the sax solo changes, so no matter what key you hit the tempo is WITH STYLE. In a way like Korgs Pads but not really, this is different its usfeull to me actually more for recorded Audio Solos and Impros.
MIDJAY: thats where the fun starts, as a stupid example, you take a song and you cut it in pieces and you save them as DJ LOOPS which is MIDJAY file and then, each part at the same time is applied to Var 1 to 4 and also to Fills, Intros and else. Right away it synchs with style, it can be thrown to a ACC track and you control each part thru variations like the style. Ok, that might be useless, who would do that with MP3 song, i wont but...a percussion loop or drum loop even audio loop... uuuuhhhh...gain, simillar to Korgs Pads but still different, in here, when you change Var the Pad changes too, its complex. Yes, we all know about MidJay but integrated on the Audya is a whole new story now.
AUDIO STYLES: originally and Audya's agenda is to be an Audio Arranger, i mean Audio Controlled, not MIDI notes as any conventional arranger. I have never EVER heard any better sounding Style then the Audio styles inside it, i hit my head in the wall, it kills any existing arranger, including PA2XPRO or T3 and trust me, theres hell of a lot of Audio Styles in it. Every Var next time you come back sounds different, every measure next time you come back is different. AJ was laughing at me when i wanted to start sampling some of the snares and kicks off the rock styles, i went crazy, deppending on your playing of the chords thats how the whole style behaves, every few seconds you hear some snare, bass line or something added in the right time and position to make it sounds better and you never recorded those notes...YAYYYYYYY!!!!!! And the best is, if you change chords too fast or in particular way, creates its own small FillIns, if you change a var in a wrong time again its own FILLIN.
SUPER SOLOS: or also called RAM INS, Ketron didnt use terminology as SA or SA2, MegaVoices or RX or DNC. Its a new thing, there is no ASS.SW, everything is controller while playing, if you hit C then F it plays one thing and if you hit C then G is another control, Velocity, Legato, Staccato, Aftertouch, speed between notes and many other things, those sounds are Amazing, when i played the Trumpet from RamIns my eyes popped out. RAMINS is actually what we call the SampledSounds, they reside on the HD, you LOAD them on a separate Bank, save them and when you start same as on the new PA, starts fast with the OS.
UPDATES: the synth has its own conventional ROM and also and HD for everything. After the release the synth will be worked on for another 2 years, by factory, providing more styles, sounds and different OS, it is an Open Achitecture Synth, anything at anytime is possible, if someones is willing to do it there is no limitation to this synth, OS, Sounds or Styles.
Those are the 4 things that impressedme the most, there is tonz new things we never used or heard of before but i cant write whole book or a manual in here. The synths is also not as heavy as i expected, maybe lighter or exact as PA2X or or something. Now, when it comes to Chord Recognition there was some fuss on here which was wrong, testing an unfinished model. Every brand has its bad side in Chord Recognition, certain chords that Korg reads Yamaha wont and the opposite, this is the way it is and we all know that for a fact. On the Audya actually when you change a chord on Audio Styles the riff and style itself changes, the Guitars or the Bassline sound different like a real band would do. Honestly till today i was very pessimistic and scared about the Audya.
Back to Audya, after all i said, its not even half, YES, there is secrets and a lot more to come then we know, trust me, therez more to it. As for final release i cant say nothing, i have no clue but it is going to happen, this time. I dont know, i cant really write everything in here, certain things i forgot to write...whatever, its not a bad intention writing this on here, i just wanted to share, this baby is coming to my house nd it will stay there for loooooonnnnnngggg...this is a synth for the next 10 years.
Thanks for reading this."
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#285290 - 04/19/10 10:42 AM
Re: Is OS4.0 a good reason to buy an Audya now?
|
Senior Member
Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 1144
Loc: Staten Island, NYC
|
Originally posted by DanO1: Nedim,
Here are your comments after visiting CMC in New York 02/04/2009. I'm just curious what happened ? ...i had a GF from Atlanta...at the time she was 23 and a virgin...sounded great, very DOWN TO EARTH girl, nice, quiet... promised a lot of things...2 years later she ended up sleeping with 13 guys...thats what happened. I do not work for Ketron i did not work for Ketron under a contract, i programmed what i programmed and that was it. Based on what i got from Ketron it wont make me talk differently then i feel about something, as the example given above...working for someone doesnt mean praising on empty hands. This has nothing to do with CMC or people, it has to do with a 5000$ machine which cannot deliver what a 1500$ machine can...as someone else said above, if a company promises its product delivers that doesnt mean the customer will do so or need so. There is no single machine on the market that i cant sit on it and in few hours figure it all out, i am not showing of, it is just a sad fact actually for me that i get bored right away with any machine, M3 is the only machine that i am still not bored after year and a half...everything else has gone and sold...once i started working with Ketron machine right away i knew there was no fun for me. It was the easiest machine i ever seen to operate, with basic features as start and stop and change sounds...nothing else to it. If you invited me on a dinner at your house and it sucked that doesnt mean i have to praise it later on, i will tell it as it is but that is ME and for ME...not for you or someone else. I do not play live, i do not use the Vocal Harmonizer, nor any Live functions. I am a programmer and thats how i make a living which means i do not care about certain Live features or in reality nor even how it sounds as long as it gives me the abilities to make it sound the way i want (which Audya cant do that). My customers and community feel the same, its a different market and it is people with BIGGER and WEIRDER needs then what the western world need...which also mean no work and no money for me cuz none of them would buy it...now you understand my frustration...i know you do. [This message has been edited by Nedim (edited 04-19-2010).]
_________________________
Cubase 8.5 Pro. Windows 7 X64. ASUS SaberTooth X99. Intel I7 5820K. ASUS GTX 960 Strix OC 2GB. 4x8 GB G.SKILL. 2 850 PRO 256GB SSDs. 1 850 EVO 1TB SSD. Acustica: Nebula Server 3 Ultimate, Murano, Magenta 3, Navy, Titanium.
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#285296 - 04/19/10 02:07 PM
Re: Is OS4.0 a good reason to buy an Audya now?
|
Senior Member
Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 1144
Loc: Staten Island, NYC
|
Originally posted by mc: That’s a whole lot of back peddling and contradictions compare to what was stated previously. I dont know how good your English is but i dont think you understood anything that i said above...that exactly was my point of writing that above, explaining the contradictions. Originally posted by DanO1: Dan, you are right and i see your point but if your cook was to be tested and then sent to millions of other homes to cook dinners then i would have to say it sucked. I know you will appreciate a good comment then but would it be a fair comment? On the other hand, where do people see ME bashing at Ketron? I never bashed Ketron in general nor i even BASH Audya it self, i am just stating facts, not opinions.
_________________________
Cubase 8.5 Pro. Windows 7 X64. ASUS SaberTooth X99. Intel I7 5820K. ASUS GTX 960 Strix OC 2GB. 4x8 GB G.SKILL. 2 850 PRO 256GB SSDs. 1 850 EVO 1TB SSD. Acustica: Nebula Server 3 Ultimate, Murano, Magenta 3, Navy, Titanium.
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#285297 - 04/19/10 02:31 PM
Re: Is OS4.0 a good reason to buy an Audya now?
|
Senior Member
Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 1144
Loc: Staten Island, NYC
|
Originally posted by DanO1: If I was being considered for a job and made glowing remarks about a product that I was invited to see, hear, evaluate and posted those positive comments on a public forum on the internet.
Then after finding out that the job would work out, you start to publically trash the product, I would call that as having poor taste and being unprofessional.
Since you changed your post now what i said above probably wont make sense now: I am repeating that i am not trashing the product, i just state facts that are there, we cannot ignore those facts, i am not saying things out of my brain for no reason, trust me i know exactly what i am talking about. This has nothing to do with a job being offered or anything, i was/am in the area and had the opportunity to check the machine, which i have also done for Korg, under different circumstances, in this case, Directly for Korg USA, under their own menagement, together with Jerry Kowarski. I trashed/bashed (as you call it) them too, i was asked to be honest, by Jerry for Korg and also by Ted for Ketron. Thats what i did. Not honest with them but honest with the public cuz i deal with him a lot. They have probably been aware of the damage/advertisement i could do but they chosed me to be honest. This is what i am saying: 1. It doesnt have a good FX processor 2. It doesnt have a Style Creator 3. It doesnt have a good Sampling Editor 4. It doesnt have any Sound editing capabilities 5. It doesnt have enough RAM for using Sampled material 6. Lacking all these things the price is too high Now, i would like someone to ENLIGHTEN me where is in here the BASHING/TRASHING i am saying or my opinions...are all of these 6 points something i created in my head??? Now, you keep crying YEAH BUT ITS AN ARRANGER WE WANT ARRANGER FEATURES. Who cares? As you have the right to as for arranger features and bash at it cuz dont have some dont i have the same exact right to say from my point of view or from my needs? And as far as bashing/trashing goes, i never bashed Ketron as much as i did Korg, dont some of you remember who was the reason of releasing 2.01 for PA in 2 weeks after 2.0??? Yes i know, they would've done so in the future anyways but why in 2 weeks this time? Or was it probably something else? Or screaming at them directly, not just on public forums, i mean screaming directly actually at people that ran the project itself...no way in hell i ever bashed at Ketron but i did hell of a bash at Korg...even though i swear by their name. James knows what i did, was doing and probably still doing. MC, Enlighten me please where do you see any hatred for Ketron in here please??? I still dont understand [This message has been edited by Nedim (edited 04-19-2010).]
_________________________
Cubase 8.5 Pro. Windows 7 X64. ASUS SaberTooth X99. Intel I7 5820K. ASUS GTX 960 Strix OC 2GB. 4x8 GB G.SKILL. 2 850 PRO 256GB SSDs. 1 850 EVO 1TB SSD. Acustica: Nebula Server 3 Ultimate, Murano, Magenta 3, Navy, Titanium.
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#285299 - 04/19/10 02:47 PM
Re: Is OS4.0 a good reason to buy an Audya now?
|
Senior Member
Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 1144
Loc: Staten Island, NYC
|
Well you probably didnt understand my point, your mentioning to my previous posts is the reason why i gave those examples, refering exactly to my previous posts that things actually changed or didnt deliver as promised, as my GF which means also then statements, opinions, facts and beliefs change. For my Facts being distorted i challenge you then, where are they distorted, find one single point of the ones given above and i already know the one you will grab hand on to but you would still not be correct...all the others stay as they are as of now, as Auda is now. As for Companies and me, to them on the forum or anywhere i am just a customer like you and in reality i am more on the public (my customers side) then the companies side, if you understand me.
_________________________
Cubase 8.5 Pro. Windows 7 X64. ASUS SaberTooth X99. Intel I7 5820K. ASUS GTX 960 Strix OC 2GB. 4x8 GB G.SKILL. 2 850 PRO 256GB SSDs. 1 850 EVO 1TB SSD. Acustica: Nebula Server 3 Ultimate, Murano, Magenta 3, Navy, Titanium.
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#285301 - 04/19/10 03:08 PM
Re: Is OS4.0 a good reason to buy an Audya now?
|
Senior Member
Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 1144
Loc: Staten Island, NYC
|
Originally posted by mc: So as it seems it was all praises when there was potential employment with Ketron/CMC, which I guess fell through. Now that the love affair has ended that’s when all of the “facts” just arise. I guess I just find your facts a bit tainted knowing the whole picture.
As far a challenge, no need, I really don’t need to discuss this with you any further. I wish you luck with all your endeavors. So basically you are saying that you dont know nothing about this here, you just got nothing better to do now. Thats what i can extract from your posts. If you find my facts tainted then say so and where but you know as i know you will fail to do so, unless you write your own Sampler or FX processor for Audya or something else. As for the Love Affair this all happens actually after i finished the work givenby/for them. Nothing to do with it.
_________________________
Cubase 8.5 Pro. Windows 7 X64. ASUS SaberTooth X99. Intel I7 5820K. ASUS GTX 960 Strix OC 2GB. 4x8 GB G.SKILL. 2 850 PRO 256GB SSDs. 1 850 EVO 1TB SSD. Acustica: Nebula Server 3 Ultimate, Murano, Magenta 3, Navy, Titanium.
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#285302 - 04/19/10 03:29 PM
Re: Is OS4.0 a good reason to buy an Audya now?
|
Senior Member
Registered: 01/31/01
Posts: 3602
Loc: Maryland
|
I did change my post because using a cooking analogy really didn't say what I was thinking.
You ask MC, "Enlighten me please where do you see any hatred for Ketron in here please???"
Here is a perfect example of degrading Ketron, Audya & Aj.
"It would make difference to few but not to most, to me personally even if OS 15 was released it is stil the same Amateurish machine lacking many basic things which cant probably be added by OS, come on, its a 5000$ machine and not even a decent FX processor? Its sad."
"I dont understand the descriptions either, a lot of them are deceitfull, now and before. Millions of time me and people asked about Style Creator and AJ kept going with: Now you can mix and edit your styles and save them as user...you can edit the FX the Audio parts and Midi parts...hellooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo thats not a Creator helloooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo................... And the question was Avoided or answered deceitfully...i dont know man...funny, i gave up on Audya Loooooongggggg ago.
"no arranger has impressed me this much in my life as up to date, NONE.Hey, thats not a statement, thats only my liking and taste but we are way behind with any existing arranger, forget the internet guessing and rummors, this is not an Arranger, nor competition to PA2X or T3, this is something else, new, a begining of a new thing in music. "
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#285304 - 04/19/10 04:58 PM
Re: Is OS4.0 a good reason to buy an Audya now?
|
Senior Member
Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 1144
Loc: Staten Island, NYC
|
And you guys still dont get it right??? Yes i said that and i will repeat I SAID IT! And now things changed, same as with my GF, should i still praise her? No i wont! It is funny and stupid bringing one single point out which i dont deny, i repeat i said it but now things change...and as far as the above post i see nothing disrespectfull to AJ, Ketron or anyone. If the machine has no Sampler and i said it doesnt have one thats disrespectfull??? You guys i dont know...god help you, LOLZ! So in reality if something is missing something i have to say NO IT DOES HAVE just to be nice??? KEEP DREAMING! Its said that both of you have no single word to correct me on my TINTERED FACTS...ahahahaha.
_________________________
Cubase 8.5 Pro. Windows 7 X64. ASUS SaberTooth X99. Intel I7 5820K. ASUS GTX 960 Strix OC 2GB. 4x8 GB G.SKILL. 2 850 PRO 256GB SSDs. 1 850 EVO 1TB SSD. Acustica: Nebula Server 3 Ultimate, Murano, Magenta 3, Navy, Titanium.
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#285307 - 04/20/10 02:33 PM
Re: Is OS4.0 a good reason to buy an Audya now?
|
Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14294
Loc: NW Florida
|
T3 doesn't have ANY sampling editing in it. Nor can you record anything into it. It doesn't have any multisample import other than its' own proprietary format... But that doesn't stop it from being probably the best selling TOTL arranger out, right now. The trouble with you, Nedim, is that you seem to have absolutely no clue what the majority of arranger users want, need, or can understand. Your original review of the Audya, when you first heard it, was probably the only RELEVANT thing you have ever posted on the subject. 1% of Audya users are ever going to use the sampler. 1% of Audya users are ever going to create a style from scratch. Nobody actually USES the things that you obsess about. But they ALL play music. And, at THAT task, the Audya is all you originally said it was. Trouble seems to be, you are incapable of looking past your own limited vision of what an arranger should do. YOU want an arranger so you can make styles and sounds for the Balkan market on it and SELL them to other Audya users (which, if they actually HAD your priorities, wouldn't NEED those styles because you would be making them themselves, wouldn't they? ), and for this the Audya falls short. What happened? Wouldn't Ketron GIVE you the software that they used to make the styles themselves? After all, it's all well and good to bitch that the Audya can't make styles, but SOMEBODY was able to, weren't they? Otherwise there would be no ROM styles... Is that what turned you from such an evangelist into a determined detractor? Before one pays attention to anyone's opinion about an arranger, it is a good idea to get a pretty good sense of where they are coming from, musically, emotionally and business-wise. Sadly, I can't really use anything you have said about the Audya as being in the slightest bit relevant to me, or probably the vast majority of members here, due to you your fixation with things basically irrelevant, and your determination to deliberately ignore or downplay the positive opinions about the product you had before it became apparent you weren't going to be able to make styles to sell on it. If this were a forum of style creators, then you might be worth paying attention to. But as someone that ONLY posts from that perspective, I'm afraid your opinion has little value here... We actually like to PLAY....
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#285308 - 04/20/10 08:49 PM
Re: Is OS4.0 a good reason to buy an Audya now?
|
Senior Member
Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 1144
Loc: Staten Island, NYC
|
Originally posted by Diki: T3 doesn't have ANY sampling editing in it. Nor can you record anything into it. It doesn't have any multisample import other than its' own proprietary format...
But that doesn't stop it from being probably the best selling TOTL arranger out, right now. With all due respect i gained for you i wont comment on this, this is laughable. I dont know where do you get your statistics...or if you meant on any 100 Korg arrangers ONE T3 being sold. Originally posted by Diki: The trouble with you, Nedim, is that you seem to have absolutely no clue what the majority of arranger users want, need, or can understand. Your original review of the Audya, when you first heard it, was probably the only RELEVANT thing you have ever posted on the subject. 1% of Audya users are ever going to use the sampler. 1% of Audya users are ever going to create a style from scratch. Nobody actually USES the things that you obsess about. Wrong again, thats the case in the Western World and you can not beat it, i deal with customers everydays from both sides and i see who uses what and how and also what they know and they dont but even in the west, there is a lot of PLAYERS not just PROGRAMMERS that need this features, a lot of them care, you can find them even here on the forum with us. Originally posted by Diki: If this were a forum of style creators, then you might be worth paying attention to. But as someone that ONLY posts from that perspective, I'm afraid your opinion Wrong again, actually the wrongest statement, this is not a topic to show of who we are but my statements are valid probably more then anyone and thats what scares Ketron or Korg, to some my statements are exactly as the one from Jordan Ruddess and also many people, in the HUNDREDS buy keyboards based ONLY on my review. Dont expect Jerry or Ketron guys from Italy come here and confirm or deny this, there is only 10-15 of us on here active but there is another 5000 just readin and contacting private me, you or whoever. It is not about Ego, i can never say anything about you personally cuz i dont know you and i am quit sure you dont know nothing about me...and do not come with the WESTERN MUSICIAN this and that and YOU AND YOUR COMMUNITY NEDIM...no, i am talking about BOTH WORLDS, Western and Orientals, lately a lot of my statements are actually Final Answers to some people...as in the case of Korg chasing me last year for pushing their customers away by my statements...i wasnt blackmailing anyone, i was just being honest to people.
_________________________
Cubase 8.5 Pro. Windows 7 X64. ASUS SaberTooth X99. Intel I7 5820K. ASUS GTX 960 Strix OC 2GB. 4x8 GB G.SKILL. 2 850 PRO 256GB SSDs. 1 850 EVO 1TB SSD. Acustica: Nebula Server 3 Ultimate, Murano, Magenta 3, Navy, Titanium.
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#285309 - 04/21/10 12:11 AM
Re: Is OS4.0 a good reason to buy an Audya now?
|
Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14294
Loc: NW Florida
|
Yeah.... respect. I think you pretty much blew that here last year. No-one buys your line, Nedim. It's SO obvious you have an axe to grind. Anyone that flip flops so radically after their needs are not met by the company they wanted to work with doesn't really have a leg to stand on, IMO. The only reason you survive is because the arranger manufacturers don't MAKE styles for your tiny market (Balkan music... sure, that's a real world power, isn't it? ) so makers of second rate styles can survive, but here in the West, the bar is pretty high. That's why so few actually MAKE styles. The manufacturers already make better ones than we can. No offense, but I've listened to your Western styles, and boy! You've got a long way to go before anyone at Yamaha or Korg or Roland or Ketron is worried... If they put the same kind of money and attention to detail into Balkan and other niche market styles, you had probably start to worry... And who was comparing the T3 to ALL of Korg's arrangers..? Compare the sales of the PA2Xpro and T3 alone. Anyway, to paraphrase an earlier post of yours, NONE of the arrangers sell a fraction of what the WS's do. So why do you even bother with the market? No-one is buying it, Nedim. Peddle it somewhere else...
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#285319 - 04/21/10 04:36 PM
Re: Is OS4.0 a good reason to buy an Audya now?
|
Senior Member
Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 1144
Loc: Staten Island, NYC
|
Originally posted by DanO1: Please list your music education and bands you have toured with that compare to Jordan Ruddess career.
Didn't you post something about needing piano lessons ?[/B] Thats a senseless comment, this has nothing to do with a good Musician, hard to believe? It simple logics of: Someones Garbage is somone Elses Treasure...thats the JR comparison...dont be too literal. You knowing how to read music or play better then me doesnt also make you better in the judgmeent of the instrument cuz after all that might be ALL you know and nothing else... Of course thats not said directly to you, it is more to make a point...and what bands i worked for is irelevant...maybe i worked for bands that are bigger then Dream Theater itself but for some people...if not for you...or vice versa...(cuz in reality you are trying to say that your music or culture is better then mine...you are wrong.) Why do i say this? Ask yourself. A good keyboard player from my culture and music is not any less VALIT then JR himself... it is to those people within that culture or music a lot more then maybe JR to you...thats the logic of my comparison to JR. Not all of us are complete, if i am better programmer then you or know the intruments technically better then you doesnt make me also a beter keyboardist then you, you might bebetter on the other side...its 2 different worlds working together for the same goal. [This message has been edited by Nedim (edited 04-21-2010).]
_________________________
Cubase 8.5 Pro. Windows 7 X64. ASUS SaberTooth X99. Intel I7 5820K. ASUS GTX 960 Strix OC 2GB. 4x8 GB G.SKILL. 2 850 PRO 256GB SSDs. 1 850 EVO 1TB SSD. Acustica: Nebula Server 3 Ultimate, Murano, Magenta 3, Navy, Titanium.
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#285325 - 04/21/10 11:25 PM
Re: Is OS4.0 a good reason to buy an Audya now?
|
Senior Member
Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 1144
Loc: Staten Island, NYC
|
Ok then...you are right...now define to me what is a Snare on a Synth and a real Snare... or any Sound at all. The Simple Analogy is, they are both the Exact SAME Thing. One is, you hit it with the Stick while the other you hit a Pad or a Key while at the same time they both trigger the same exact Sound becuse the Synth Snare was recorded from the real one...and lets not get into mathematics of converstion, recording, loosing quality and anything else, we all know that bull. There is another catch to it looking from an engineer perspective (which you know what i am talking about, you are one of them) that when recording a whole Loop you need a player with the whole DK in front and Miking it wont be as Correct and Clean as having ONLY the ne DRUM in front of you when Sampling. At the end you end up with a Cleaner Sample of an SD then the original SD that was being recorded while recording that loop...i know you understand me.
_________________________
Cubase 8.5 Pro. Windows 7 X64. ASUS SaberTooth X99. Intel I7 5820K. ASUS GTX 960 Strix OC 2GB. 4x8 GB G.SKILL. 2 850 PRO 256GB SSDs. 1 850 EVO 1TB SSD. Acustica: Nebula Server 3 Ultimate, Murano, Magenta 3, Navy, Titanium.
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#285331 - 04/22/10 06:02 AM
Re: Is OS4.0 a good reason to buy an Audya now?
|
Senior Member
Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
|
Originally posted by Tonewheeldude: NONE of the chords I played in those MP3 files were replaced by Midi guitars. The whole point of those demos was to show that only thechords the Audya swaps out MIDI guitars for live guitars are impossible inversions (for a guitarist to play)...which are few.
Yes, you're partially correct...if you listen really carefully, the Audya's audio guitars played the chords alright, but they did not play the root notes (the descending bass line)..the guitars in the Yamaha played the bass line (using guitar only) properly. In other words, when attempting to play a Cmaj7th/B, the Audya's audio guitar track was playing a Cmaj7th/C...when trying to play an Am7th/G, the Audya was actually playing a Am7th/A. The Yamaha S910's guitar track was playing the proper root note for the chord the player played...a Cmaj7th/B came out as Cmajth/B....Am7th/G came out as Am7th/G. I wouldn't like using the Audya's guitar tracks alone to begin a tune...you would need the bass track on, to give the descending bass line...with the Yamaha, I can do it with the guitar track alone. A small detail? Yes. But, an important one. Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#285332 - 04/22/10 06:12 AM
Re: Is OS4.0 a good reason to buy an Audya now?
|
Member
Registered: 09/07/07
Posts: 96
Loc: UK
|
Then i have misunderstood the entire point of the last 3 pages of this thread http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/Forum37/HTML/021060-6.html ha ha and we are no wiser as to whetehr or not the Audya handles comples chords any better than the expales that were played about 1 year ago that sounded awful. This was what Ian and i had mentioned in passing and i thought that was the intention of the demos that Tonewheel provided. on 2/01/2009 Mr Dave who had an Audya that had been sold to a frind of his said "So, here's the answer: Along with all the instruments wave data, there are recorded hundreds of guitar riffs and chords in all tonalities, but... only Maj and Min chords are present, with some exceptions. So, for the most part of guitar loops you got only Maj and Min versions. How do they create other chords? Simply... for chords that have note added (lik 6, 7, 9...) they simply add a MIDI note in the correct position along with the chord. For example if you play a C7, you get the CMaj guitar along with a midi guitar that plays the A# note. If you play CMin7, the same... you get the Min chord + the MIDI A# note. But for other chords that don't have additions, like C4, Cdim, CAug for example, all the loop is played by MIDI and you can clearly hear the live guitar absence in some styles where the live guitar is predominant. as I told before, I found a few exceptions (bossa and samba riffs) where playing a 7th chord brings up a different sample instead of adding the midi note. Other samples, notably the rock ones have only one version played regardless of Maj or Min chords." Ian said concerning how the audy handles complex chords "Good gracious....how many times does one have to repeat the same thing over and over before it starts to sink in? Or is it a case of selective demo playing. My concern was how the guitars handled inversions and complex chords on their own. That's how they were first demo'd here, and several of us were able to hear (or distinguish) the midi guitar adding the notes the audio guitar could not play. As I said earlier, sometimes a player wants to start out a tune with just the guitar part...it's done a lot in music, especially country and pop, but pretty well all genres have tunes that begin that way. Your demos, while showcasing the bass and drums, which are good, and obviously the instrument's best feature, and main selling point, do nothing to allow the listener to hear the guitar parts on their own...you're even playing a melody over the top. Now, you are either missing my point entirely, either by selective reading, or perhaps, you might want to hide the guitars because of their unnatural voicing...I don't know, and , at this point, I do not care. If I was the only one who heard the badly done guitar parts, I'd say, perhaps my hearing is shot, or selective, or whatever....but, I wasn't the only one...there were several of us. It's highly unlikely we all have the same hearing problems. So, it's highly likely what we heard, was exactly what was posted. Ian " in that same thread i said in response to the Demos that both tonewheel and Ian posted that: " 1. The audya actually handles complex chords well and if midi tracks were being used then i could not tell when they kicked in 2. That the yamaha guitars sounded to me (and i play guitar) just as good as the Audya real guitars tracks." Tonewheel, if you knew that no midi notes had ever been played in those demonstrations why the hell did you not correct me then .....or was it something that was just accidentally/conveniently overlooked.... So now the question still remains unanswered. Does the Audya guitars sound as awful when it plays complex chords (sufficient to trigger midi notes)as it did in the examples given a year ago and interestingly removed or does it not ? Or have Ketron managed to add additional samples into their current keyboards (that they could no have added a year ago when Mr Dave tested his ) did not exist according to Mr Dave or is midi being used in the examples that Tonewheel presented that sounded like real audio? I apologise for any misunderstanding Henni and mc and potentially to you tonewheel but hopefully you can understand my confusion. [This message has been edited by Spalding 4 (edited 04-22-2010).]
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#285333 - 04/22/10 06:24 AM
Re: Is OS4.0 a good reason to buy an Audya now?
|
Senior Member
Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 6703
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
|
I always thought of 'midi' as sort of a language, a set of instructions, like "turn on this strobe light" or any other instruction you wish to convey to any electronic device that can understand and respond to the instruction. So if I send a midi message to a controller to 'turn off the light' or just flip the switch manually, will the quality of the light be different? I mean, c'mon, you guys make it sound as if midi is some kind of sound entity unto itself. Soooooo, is an (uneditable) audio loop triggered by a midi instruction (as a midi note would be on a conventional synth) audio or midi? Just asking. And isn't the flexibility of being able to configure individual notes more desirable in an arranger setting, than being slave to a phrase that's already been played and recorded and can't be altered? I can see the advantage of the playing to a drum track that was pre-recorded for A SPECIFIC SONG, but beyond that, the compromises necessary for 'real audio' seem to outweigh the 'feel' advantage of RECORDED live drums. This is just an opinion based on not having heard the Audya approach to drums and I could certainly be persuaded that my assumptions are in error. I've got a feeling that there are still things about this whole 'approach' that I don't know. That's nothing new . chas
_________________________
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#285334 - 04/22/10 06:57 AM
Re: Is OS4.0 a good reason to buy an Audya now?
|
Senior Member
Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
|
With a conventional arranger, the guitar tracks are, in a sense, audio, because the sounds being used are samples...in the case of Yamaha, mega voices are not just notes. but other additions such as fret noise, hammer-ons etc.
Since these samples are manipulated via MIDI control, the programmer has as many patterns as needed...also, some of the guitar tracks in Yamaha (and Roland, Korg) are input via MIDI guitar, so it sounds as natural as possible.
The new GTT mode on the T3/S910, goes a step further, by voicing the chords as a guitar player would.
Can the Audya's strum or finger-picking audio tracks be edited...can the notes be off-set to allow a "swing" feel...can the voicing of the chord notes be changed (without using another, different loop) by the user?
Many songs begin with guitar only, and just as often, the guitarist establishes the bass line...if the arranger's guitar tracks cannot voice, for example, a Cmajth/B as a chord with the B note in the root, it becomes a limitation...it seems, after hearing the demos posted, that the Audya cannot voice the guitar chords in that manner...it needs the bass guitar track to establish what is the root note.
The Audya would need it's audio guitar loops recorded in every inversion of each chord....does it have them?
Midi controlled guitar tracks that use sampled individual notes, as in Roland, Yamaha, Casio, Korg, do not have this issue...all inversions are available.
Ian
[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 04-22-2010).]
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#285336 - 04/22/10 07:16 AM
Re: Is OS4.0 a good reason to buy an Audya now?
|
Senior Member
Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
|
Originally posted by leezone: for Someone with a good ear or someone who actually cares and has pride in their sound
or someone who's fortunate enough to be able to tell the difference
there is a HUGE difference
for all others, audio and midi are exactly the same True, and all the more reason for the potential buyer to be sure the Audya is playing chords (especially on-bass or bass inversions, or slash chords...whatever you want to call these chord types) as it should. I'm pretty fussy about how my arranger's guitar tracks sound, which, I suppose, any player, with pride in how they sound, would be as well. Now, Lee, if you play very simply, and never use on-bass (bass inversion, slash chords), then the Audya's handling of guitar tracks would never concern you...but, there are pros who use these chords very often, and knowing how they are managed (voiced) would be very beneficial to such players...and, it may help them decide whether having audio guitars over conventional midi controlled sampled guitar notes, is worth giving up the more precise control of the latter. Ian [This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 04-22-2010).]
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#285338 - 04/22/10 07:29 AM
Re: Is OS4.0 a good reason to buy an Audya now?
|
Senior Member
Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
|
These are the posts, on another thread, that interest me... Originally posted by ianmcnll: Not too shabby, TWD, but it is as I suspected....the guitars don't play the descending bass line...they need the actual bass to provide that...it's too bad you had to add the drums, but otherwise it sounds pretty good.
Thanks,
Ian Originally posted by Tonewheeldude:
Sorry I thought you wanted to hear the bass play the bass line?
Actually I never heard a guitarist play a descending bass line the same time as he strums...is it even possible?
. This is where we left off...I specifically asked for the Audya's guitar tracks only....as posted, the Audya's guitar track needed the addition of the bass track to play the inversions...and yes, it is possible for a guitarist to play descending bass lines when strumming and/or picking. Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#285344 - 04/22/10 01:05 PM
Re: Is OS4.0 a good reason to buy an Audya now?
|
Senior Member
Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
|
Originally posted by leezone:
you see at LEAST I, and other AUDYA users have played on a Yamaha, and we can compare the 2 cuz we've PLAYED them both
others on the other hand, judge without ever playing it
the proof is in the pudding
Well, after reading your posts over the last few months, I'm a little skeptical about what you actually do hear. But, I do know what I hear, and that is the Audya's guitars don't play the descending bass line and on-bass chords correctly...they need the actual bass track to provide it. It obviously doesn't make any difference to some, but at least those people who would require an arranger's guitar tracks to play bass inversions will be aware of it, and won't get any surprises when they get it home, or try it out in a store. Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#285345 - 04/22/10 01:45 PM
Re: Is OS4.0 a good reason to buy an Audya now?
|
Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14294
Loc: NW Florida
|
I can't figure out why anyone hasn't commented about the fact that the Audya's guitar chords sound disjointed. there are several times where it sounds as if, as one chord ends and the other starts, there is a tiny gap or hesitation...
Not to mention that there is no such thing as an eight string guitar (OK, maybe there is, but hardly anyone plays it!)... If you have a strumming pattern on a major chord, and add the 6 and 9 to it, it is no longer a correctly voiced 6,9 chord. It is a major chord on one guitar, with a second guitar adding the 6 & 9. For it to be a correctly voiced 6,9, two of the six notes already strummed would have to STOP. They don't...
Personally, I COULD hear tonal differences when the additional notes were being added (there's a bit of a 'hang' in the MIDI note, it doesn't phrase exactly to the audio), and the tonality of the added notes sounds like a different guitar (why they didn't make samples from the same guitar they recorded the loops on beats me... it's the obvious solution).
Now, yes, I'm being picky... and those examples sound better than the old ones from OS1 posted way back. But the issues haven't gone away, just got hidden better. But I have to say, from listening to both examples, that IMO there is NO clear winner. Both systems have their strengths and weaknesses, and anyone determined to only see one victor here is altogether TOO much partisan, and not opening their ears enough. Be critical of them both, or accept both, but there's no winner...
For me, the deciding factor doesn't come from what they actually sound like. It comes from what ELSE they can sound like. It is a piece of cake to turn the S910's guitar strums from steel to nylon, to clean Strat, to 12-string. There isn't a damn thing you can do to the Audya's loops. So you had better REALLY, really like them, because you are going to be listening to them a LONG, long time... On many, many different songs (not every style has a unique set of strums and picking patterns, so you are going to be hearing them over and over...).
As someone that only changes out his gear at maybe half or less the pace of you guys, longevity, and ease of making something easily sound different is a very high priority for me. Realism (if only a hair more of it) at the expense of the inability to change it one iota is a poor substitute, in my book...
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#285346 - 04/22/10 01:47 PM
Re: Is OS4.0 a good reason to buy an Audya now?
|
Senior Member
Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 6703
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
|
You can ignore it all you want and substitute put-downs for facts, but any way you slice it, MIDI is a COMMUNICATIONS PROTOCOL, NOTHING MORE. Every time you use phrases like 'midi note' without elaboration, and compare it to 'live audio, it just sounds stupid. I don't have to own an Audya to know that. It's gotten to the point that if anyone asks a simple question that you two (TWD and Leezone) perceive as a knock on the Audya, you immediately launch into attack mode. TWD, although only a recent member of Synthzone, has decided that he needs to re-educate the morons here on SZ and bestow upon us (less than average players) the gifts of his vastly superior knowledge, especially as it pertains to Audyas and all things Hammond. I heard and saw some of his 'work' on YouTube; Interesting. Leezone, on the other hand, does not even own an Audya, has annoyed everyone on SZ with his incessant, unanswerable questions, and in all probability, knowing the type, will never get one. Apparently, being the center of attention is gratification enough. I think you should all go back and read carefully what has been posted here and make your own judgements.
NOW, can someone explain how 'live drums' work on the Audya and then how 'live guitar' works on the Audya. I genuinely want to know. When I play a chord on the Audya, does it analyze what I have played and chooses a pre-recorded substitute chord? Or (in style play) a suitable audio loop based on that chord. Is that loop different, depending on the style? When I cut the tempo in half, what happens with the pre-recorded drum passage? Does it time stretch? And if so, does this change the character of the drum pattern? For those that know how the Audya works, these may seem like dumb questions, but to those of us unfamiliar with the technology, they remain sources of curiosity. So instead of coming back with "if you can't hear the difference.....blah, blah", how about explaining it in a way that us mere mortals can understand.
DonM, as a longtime and respected member of this board, you know that this is not directed at you. I know that you like and are satisfied with your Audya and have never subjected us to kind of annoying fanaticism that serves no purpose other than to obscure the facts. Given it's rather substantial price, a lot of us would just like to understand the technology that justifies it. If you can shed some light on how this works, I'd appreciate it. It sounds intriguing and I'd really like to hear an objective evaluation and explanation. Thanks.
chas
_________________________
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#285347 - 04/22/10 02:23 PM
Re: Is OS4.0 a good reason to buy an Audya now?
|
Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14294
Loc: NW Florida
|
I think I can answer SOME of your questions, chas...
From what we have been told, the Audya does time-stretching on its' audio loops. Now, as this can only go so far without becoming apparent, all of the loops were recorded at three different tempi, so the loop for a fast guitar strum is not the same loop for a slower one (which is how it should be). But even so, there is probably a limit to how fast or slow you can take any loop, but in fairness, that's probably outside its' useful range. It is possible (but I not sure for certain) that it also has sliced up the beats in the drum section, which would allow for more tempo variation without artifacts. Kind of like ReCycle, or Acid loops, etc..
But what we are hearing BETWEEN chords on the Audya sounds awfully like a degree of latency as it streams the correct chord (or close to correct!) in response to the input, and there seems to be some not perfect cross-fading between old chord and new. Anyone that has played a guitar knows there is a certain degree of over-ring when you go between one chord and the next, particularly open chords. But this is plain flat out impossible when you are cross-cutting between two recordings. Not that MIDI is much better at this, just pointing it out...
Guitar is a VERY non-linear instrument. At best, we can only approximate it poorly, with whatever system we choose to use. Claiming that any system has succeeded in 'realism' is simply a case of fanboy excess. If you listen like a REAL guitarist, or one that knows what they are supposed to sound like, you can easily hear the flaws in ANY system.
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#285350 - 04/22/10 05:01 PM
Re: Is OS4.0 a good reason to buy an Audya now?
|
Senior Member
Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#285355 - 04/22/10 07:05 PM
Re: Is OS4.0 a good reason to buy an Audya now?
|
Senior Member
Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 1130
|
Originally posted by Tonewheeldude:
In Danny's thread I wanted to know if he had seen the Audya after he said he couldn't understand what all the fuss was about...and that the Audya is nothing special. Hi TWD, I never meant for that thread to sound negative although I did say later on that I could have worded the thread better. I'd love to try the Audya but it doesn't seem possible, there aren't any around here so I have to rely on demos for now at least. I know it isn't the same thing, but spent a whole day listening to every single demo/example/live show or whatever regarding the Audya because I was in two minds whether to get one or a T3, and to do it any justice at all I did have have the computer system plugged into a decent stereo system so I can make the best of what I could under the circumstances. I don't really want to get into this all over again but what made me purchase the T3 over the Audya was the styles, not because they sounded better but because I prefered how they've been created and arranged on the T3 to suite a wider range of styles of music. That isn't a criticism, it was just my preference. After summerising it all, I decided in the end that I would be happier with a T3. So since purchasing one, I've also wanted to get back in touch with this forum but found a lot of threads were centered towards the Audya, that's fine and not a problem, but then there were some members suggesting that it was so much more superior than anything else and I started to wonder what am I missing because from the demo's I heard (and some were absolutely incredible) I didn't think the Audya sounded so much superior than anything else including my PA1x, that was all. So really, all I was trying to do was urge members who own the Audya to post a summary of their experiences with the Audya and if owning one was a must, no skin off my nose because if the Audya is that much worth having I'd get one eventually to go along with the T3. I wasn't trying to get people to compete with each other's keyboards, I just wanted to hear more first hand experiences. I hope that makes more sense. Thanks Danny.
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#285356 - 04/22/10 08:55 PM
Re: Is OS4.0 a good reason to buy an Audya now?
|
Senior Member
Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 1144
Loc: Staten Island, NYC
|
Originally posted by Diki: [B]I can't figure out why anyone hasn't commented about the fact that the Audya's guitar chords sound disjointed. there are several times where it sounds as if, as one chord ends and the other starts, there is a tiny gap or hesitation...
Not to mention that there is no such thing as an eight string guitar (OK, maybe there is, but hardly anyone plays it!)... If you have a strumming pattern on a major chord, and add the 6 and 9 to it, it is no longer a correctly voiced 6,9 chord. It is a major chord on one guitar, with a second guitar adding the 6 & 9. For it to be a correctly voiced 6,9, two of the six notes already strummed would have to STOP. They don't...
Right...and not just that, the DrumLoops go OUT OF TIME a lot, after playing for a while the whole Audio Style structure dismantles itself, it goes crazy. Thats the case at least on few Audyas that i used and tested.
_________________________
Cubase 8.5 Pro. Windows 7 X64. ASUS SaberTooth X99. Intel I7 5820K. ASUS GTX 960 Strix OC 2GB. 4x8 GB G.SKILL. 2 850 PRO 256GB SSDs. 1 850 EVO 1TB SSD. Acustica: Nebula Server 3 Ultimate, Murano, Magenta 3, Navy, Titanium.
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#285358 - 04/22/10 11:52 PM
Re: Is OS4.0 a good reason to buy an Audya now?
|
Member
Registered: 07/31/08
Posts: 570
Loc: Ballarat, Victoria, Australia
|
I cant deal with this anymore!!!!!! think we are all going crazy????????? Ketron have only put out some small OS changes so far, I would have thought the majority of us would be wanting to hear see and touch the final components ie the new styles sounds and so on.
I mean this has been an amazing journey for a keyboard how many years and promises that have not come through so far, as much as i'm tempted, i want to, and so should all others wait until the final verdict is in. By the way where is the final 1 gig part to the OS upgrade, its not finished right? just like all the other promises that have not come through so far. Can you blame us for being very suspicious of any detail without proof thats comming from Italy. Get the Pope onto it, oh that's right he's got his own problems, well maybe the el presidenti or someone else in authority.
I mean evertime someone comes on and says just wait, enjoy what you have it will be here soon, i shudder, its like supplying a car without wheels. Come on Ketron, whats the story fess up, honesty could be the one biggest saviour for you now.
Meanwhile the nurse is giving me my medication, once again moving back into the coma that so soothes me!!
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#285360 - 04/23/10 12:07 AM
Re: Is OS4.0 a good reason to buy an Audya now?
|
Senior Member
Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 1144
Loc: Staten Island, NYC
|
Originally posted by Diki: What was the last OS you played on, Nedim? OS 1 or OS2?
I think it's unfair to make comments about an early version of an OS without finding out for sure whether it is STILL a big issue. I would have thought that DonM would have made at least SOME comment about this (or, Heaven help us, Tony!) if this were still the case.
Mind you, you have stated you are still going to buy one, so I guess you don't REALLY care, do you? I never played on OS1 so i dont know, once i saw OS1 for 1 min at CMC when i was updating Ted's Audya, somewhere at the begining to OS 2.0 but didnt try OS 1. Then i used it with OS 2 and one time i used it for 3 days on OS 3, thruought both i heard those funny things but more on OS 2. Now, personally as you said i dont really care as long as i can program on it but i believe that in OS 4 those things would be gone...keep in mind that what i stated above its not only me, i had/have tens of e-mails to me with same complaints...thats why i got pissed off few times, i had to respond and help Ketron customers while Ketron didnt know i exist...then i left it all but even now people with Audya still bug me. CMC knows about those complaints, AJ knows about some...what sucked is they are all in different languages (i speak 6 languages) so i have people from all over...i couldnt forward all of them cuz they need translation, i cant sit at home and work for Ketron for free translating e-mails so i just abandoned all those people.
_________________________
Cubase 8.5 Pro. Windows 7 X64. ASUS SaberTooth X99. Intel I7 5820K. ASUS GTX 960 Strix OC 2GB. 4x8 GB G.SKILL. 2 850 PRO 256GB SSDs. 1 850 EVO 1TB SSD. Acustica: Nebula Server 3 Ultimate, Murano, Magenta 3, Navy, Titanium.
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|