You know, for someone SO willing to talk and talk about the MS's strengths, how come there's so little example from you, AFG?

Smilies are no substitute for a recording of what you actually perform live on a gig. Are you willing to back up your assertions? Or like so many others, suddenly shy when it comes to providing any example to back up your rhetoric? If the proof is SO obvious to you, how come you won't provide it to us?

Post something even a FRACTION as good as a closed arranger, or give it up... Show us how good it is, stop telling us about it.

you have no appreciation for people. it's not about the MS or other tool here, but how you approach people. James has played in a short time demos. but you have no appreciation for it.

We have a saying in our country:

The best response against an to ignorant people, is the answer of silence.
a man is respectful and keep secret his mistakes when he speaks less.but the more he opens his mouth the more mistakes he makes known.

sorry but you talk a lot. Every time you talk about something, i see how well people have thought to make that saying.


[This message has been edited by AFG Music (edited 04-22-2010).]

Hi Diki,



And it's for reasons like that is why I said that you were afraid of the Mediastation and you underestimate your own abilities. You have gotten lazy Diki and there's simply no excuse for this. Not when you do have the ability do take something like the Medaistation and with LITTLE effort turn it into your dream machine.

You just need a good kick in the arse and to cop on to yourself. Nothing I have demonstrated in any of the the video's I've uploaded is complicated when measured to the standards I think you are at. You could easily gather up a collection of the best styles around from all makes and models of keyboards, dump them into the Mediastation and spend 5 to 10 minutes on each style remapping all the sounds and balance until they are exactly how you like them.

This will automatically give you a sound that will match any arranger keyboard by default but instead of that being all it's got sound wise like all closed arrangers, you can expand on this over time as you see fit and use ultra realistic sounds from Giga , AKAI, VSTi Libraries or whatever else takes your fancy.

As I said in other posts, there is a level of pride you get from doing all this and to play with ultra realistic sounds that are far beyond that of closed keyboards is quite a feeling. I don't mean to just compare one to the other, I mean simply forget the limitations of a closed keyboard and to load up 1GB Piano that's so detailed that you can even hear the felt on the hammers.

It's pretty freaking exciting actually and it really makes you put the passion into your music.

Seriously mate, you have no idea what your missing by sticking your head into that G70 of yours. Music is a passion, not just something you do to make a few bucks.

Regards
James

and DIKI Can even have a good and great combination of G-70 and MS.

i mean it.

Regardless of how realistic the sounds are, aren't you limited to some degree by having to use a keyboard as a controller. Some playing techniques for other instruments are pretty hard to duplicate with a keyboard. Plus, don't you need to THINK (and phrase) like a seasoned guitarist or sax player or.....what have you. The only decent/authentic solos I've ever heard on 'synths' was when it was imitating other keyboard instruments. JMO, of course.

chas

Hi cgiles .



By default the sheer size of the sounds will instantly make the superior to that of a closed keybaord. I have a Guitar sound for example that's 4 times the size of the Tyros 3 entire ROM and the detail is simply breathtaking. Fair enough, this is premium content I paid big bucks for or but still... at least I can pay for the sounds and used them on the Medaistation.

Even if I just play the sound like a keyboard player, it still sounds infinitely superior to a sound on a closed keyboard.

So, I'm not trying to say it will sound exactly like a real guitar player like this, I'm saying here that it will simply sound superior in every way imaginable to the guitar sounds on any closed keyboard.

To go beyond that and emulate an actual guitarist then Yes, I will have to load a Multi Layered sound and play it a certain way.

This is no problem and it's very easy to do once you play with the sound and remember what way you need to control it.

Take a look at the second video I uploaded for example on Loading Giga Files. In there I play a Scottish Pipe and a Ullean Pile sound straight. Both are complex instruments and I think I pulled them off quite well.

Regards
James

Hello James;

Your statement below interests me. Would you be able to clarify and elaborate a bit. From the video the GM sound in the styles are just average. I understand that one can remap teh styles using other GM sounds. When remapping sound can one draw from the sound libraries that are avaliable ( i.e. Giga , AKAI, VSTi Libraries ) and insert them into the styles? For instance there is a style that you were playing in a video that has a strumming guitar in it that does not sound very realistic. Could one use a much better strumming acoustic or electric guitar and insert it in place of the GM guitar, thus elevating the overall realism of the style?

The above would also apply to various styles in Audya or Tyros, Korg extra that have accompaniment styles that draw upon their particular sound engines to create the parts in the styles--i.e. like the acoustic and electric strumming guitars, big band brass blasts, etc...

Would there be a limit to how many external high quality sounds one could import to the styles? Would it tax the memory or processor
or take too long to load in a live situations.

Thanks;
BN

James Quote;

" You could easily gather up a collection of the best styles around from all makes and models of keyboards, dump them into the Mediastation and spend 5 to 10 minutes on each style remapping all the sounds and balance until they are exactly how you like them.

This will automatically give you a sound that will match any arranger keyboard by default but instead of that being all it's got sound wise like all closed arrangers, you can expand on this over time as you see fit and use ultra realistic sounds from Giga , AKAI, VSTi Libraries or whatever else takes your fancy. "

Hi BlkNotes



Yes, the stock GM Library that comes with the keyboard are basically sampled sounds from other arrangers and the odd VSTi here and there likely passed through Extreme Sample Converter.

So while GM Library is pretty good by normal keyboard standards, it is still very typical of what you would expect from a closed keyboard and not any sort of measure of what an open keyboard can do.

This is likely the case for compatibility reason.



Yes, and this is a key point behind the keyboard. Take just the stock GM library for example, if you go through that replacing the sounds with extremely high quality premium content then automatically everything that uses the GM bacnk benefits.




With any technology there is always some upper limit but you would have to create one monster GM Library to put the system under any strain. All the sounds are streamed from the HDD, so even if your GM library is really big, only a fraction of that is actually loaded to memory.

So I'll put it to you this way, I haven't seen any memory issues yet and I only have 4GB in my Mediastation. You can install a lot more RAM into the newer Groove Series too.



There will be no loading times if you insert your sounds into the GM bank. During the bootup process the sounds in the GM bank are loaded to RAM so that once the system is up and running, the sounds are instantly available.

So again you would have to assemble one monster GM library to tax the system.

Regards
James

Sorry, James, but I am SO far past GM/GS, it isn't even funny... Maybe ten years ago, you could have substituted one GM kit for another, done some rudimentary balancing, and you would have been good to go. But today's modern drumkits, even in those lowly closed arrangers, are FAR past simple GM/GS. There are, for starters, about four different samples per note in even my G70. So, you have to match whatever substitute kit to carefully cross-switch at the same point, to roughly the same type samples. No small task, just that. Then there are non-standard 'ghost' notes, ruffs, tom-tom flams (some velocity switched, some on separate notes) and a host of extra sounds well outside the GM/GS standard. That's WHY modern arrangers sound so good... there's MUCH more detail and nuance available. But it comes at the cost of standardization.

Trust me, it's NOT laziness making me reluctant to do this. It's EXPERIENCE. I have taken DAYS trying to get a Korg groove to work on a Roland. They don't have similar samples, they don't have similar note maps, and they don't have similar crossover points. Korg (as you well know) have some SERIOUSLY groovy beats, especially in that modern, 'smooth' jazz format. But go in and take a look at the kit, at the samples. NOTHING like GM/GS whatsoever. Which is why it is such a PITA to translate.

I'm sorry, but perhaps it is YOU that is the lazy one? My standards for style translations must be MUCH higher than yours! I want nothing less than something that sounds AT LEAST as good as the original. And preferably a LOT better. And, I'm sorry, but I just don't see anything other than legacy, one sample per note, simple styles being easy to translate.

I am, of course, MORE than willing to WATCH you prove me wrong. But you had better start to take a serious look at how modern TOTL arrangers are voiced in the drumkit, just for starters. If you think finding a good substitute in a GIGA soundset is going to be easy, you are sadly mistaken. GM/GS is history. That is a good thing for us with closed arrangers. But bad news for those of us trying to make TOTL translations...

My G70 has about 50 drumkits in it, all of which have at least SOME kind of non-standard mapping. For translated styles to work properly, please explain how it is going to be easy to provide one to one mapping, including velocity cross switches, for 50 drumkits...

I didn't think so...

You honestly have barely scratched at the surface of coming up with the sounds to do justice to a complete closed arranger's soundset. This isn't a case of having ONE good acoustic drumset. It is having a whole Roland arranger's worth of them. Oh, and a whole Korg arranger's worth of them. And a whole Yamaha arranger's worth of them. Etc., etc.. They are all different, and all completely incompatible without major surgery. Kick your OWN arse before you take a swing at mine...

Hi Diki
The G70 drum sets are nothing more than stripped down Fantom kits, all of which are available to buy.
You purchase Kontakt 4 or Battery 3 (Better still Komplete 6) then load in you fantom drum kits, load in your converted Roland styles, and re-map them to use the Fantom Drum Kits, Job Done.
What’s difficult in that?
Other boards at best probably have about 3 layers of drum sample, whereas VSTi have 10, 12, or more, so one of them will be close enough as to not matter, the rest of the sounds you mention are also available, so it’s just a case of loading them in, and mapping them to the appropriate notes etc. (Which with your experience would probably take about 10 -15 minutes per style)

Bill