Hi, I'm new to this BBS and a rookie at sequencing. I'm hoping those far more experienced can help me.
I own a Korg Triton Studio and need to sequence some backing tracks for use in a live situation to play horn parts, strings, effects, etc.

I understand how to do this on the keyboard but my question is: How should I create the tracks so that everyone else in the band can play in sync with the tracks? Normally the drummer would start a song by setting the tempo by counting down 1-2-3-4 by tapping his sticks together. Since this will no longer be possible and basically be my job on the synth/sequencer to do this, how do you all go about doing this WITHOUT using the audible metronome countdown built into the sequencer. (Some threads I've read generally refer to a click track used in a studio situation with the drummer wearing headphones but I would prefer not to do this).

My thoughts would be to sequence the 'sticks countdown' for one bar then have some sort of simple drum beat playing but I don't want interfere with the actual drummers playing.

How do you all go about doing this?

If I'm not clear enough with my question, please feel free to ask me. This is my first attempt at this.

Thanks! IGGY

b

Hi IGGY,

Well the first thought is just play the parts live and forget the sequence idea. 99.9% of the audience isn't going to miss a part here or there so just pick out the important part for each section of the song that you can play live and don't worry about the other stuff.

Or....if you really want to use the technology you have....

It is important that the band stays in sync throughout the song. This is normally handled by listening to the drummer. But now you are asking the drummer to stay in time with another source. Which by the way some drummers are either not accustomed to doing or just don't want to be saddled to another player (sequencer) that happens to have perfect time.

So the first thing to do is ask the drummer if he would prefer a simple click track or something more rhythmic. In the past when in this type of situation, I have found that drummers are happiest when I send them via headphones or a dedicated monitor a rhythmic click track consisting of several percussion instruments. It is also helpful if the rhythm of this track has some syncopation in it. It is much easier to stay in time with something if there is some feel to the track. I hope that makes sense.

Best Regards,

Dave


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Wm. David McMahan
Nat'l Product and Support Manager
Generalmusic USA
GEM Community Forums

[This message has been edited by WDMcM (edited 08-08-2005).]

The cover band I work with regularly wanted me to sequence "Hella Good" by No Doubt but the drummer didn't want to have to deal with putting on headphones to monitor a click track. So I prepared a sequence with a strong hihat count on each beat. It starts with a 1 bar 4 count and continues through the entire song. Because the hihat just blends in with the drummers playing no one else notices it but the drummer who has a monitor right next to him can hear it and it keeps him locked into the sequence. He doubles the hihat most of the time so it covers the fact the click is audible. Personally I'd prefer he uses a click in headphones he is more comfortable in doing it like this. It just means you need a strong monitor signal that he can hear while playing.

Hi Guys, Thanks for the reply. To answer both of your suggestions....

Dave: I agree with your idea to just play things live which I do as much as possible but there's a small handful of tunes that just 'need' the extras or multiple patch changes that are impossible to switch to quickly enough. (Wish someone would build a synth that has a set of programmable buttons to pre-set patch changes. I know how to program/use a foot switch but it's limited to a sequential change up/down). I'm used to playing a classical/church organ where those have at least 10 programmable pre-sets and I can switch directly to the one I want.

Nigel: I was thinking about doing what you suggest but wasn't sure. I'll check with the drummer and see what he prefers. There are a couple songs where I start the song alone on piano and everyone else doesn't come in 'till later. I would think it would be difficult to sync up the sequencer. In this case, Should I sequence my piano intro as well and simply double my live playing?

Thanks...IGGY

Yes, IGGY because you don't want the click to be audible during the piano intro it would be much easier to simply sequence that part so that it is locked into the sequence tempo.

I really didn't think the drummer would be able to keep in time with the sequence but it has worked out well. And because we only have the one sequenced song it makes it easier to simply do it like this. One thing that does make it easier is that our drummer uses a Roland V-Drums electronic kit so it is easier to hear his JBL powered monitor with the sequence. But getting a clear monitor over an acoustic drum kit may be harder. All you can do is try it and see if your drummer is comfortable doing it like that. If not you may have to give him the sequence in headphones.

Hi IGGY...
Just my thots...
If, as you stated, you only need some particular parts in various songs, theoretically, you could create a click for the drummer to follow, the rest may be empty for whatever duration, so as long as the arrangement doesn't change (nobody throws in an extra measure), the horn, brass, string, part(s), whatever it may be would fall in at the appropriate point, and the only one having to concern themselves with the overall time keeping, would be the drummer.
One of the bands I'm in used to have sequenced material...I hated it.
There's no replacing live, as Dave said, and believe it or not, the audience isn't so stupid as to not realize that something is added....but someone is missing.
As a musician, I was always very self conscious of that.
The band I spoke of has since put the sequencer in mothballs, everything is live.
I'm doing 90% kbs now, and we picked up a kick-ass guitarist, who, along with our great bassist and myself, fill in all those little holes.
Trust me...the audience will appreciate it more, and you'll feel better about what your doing, at least with respect to the band gigs.
Soloing is of course, a whole different ball game......speaking of which..."Go Blue Jays!!" ....and did you see that idiot who jumped from the upper deck at some ball park (I forget) and landed in the netting behind home plate?

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...shboom

[This message has been edited by shboom (edited 08-11-2005).]

NIGEL: different subject. You apparently worked up Hella Good. I've a Fantom X-7 and am desparately searching for a sound that emulates the 3-note repetitive industrial bass-like panning drone that runs through most of the song. Any ideas on how to get or make the patch? You probably don't have a Fantom, but maybe you could tell me what tones you used and what settings/parameters you tweaked?

thanks.

rob

I really didn't do much sound programming on the Hella Good sequence. I downloaded the GM sequence off the Internet then reselected new patches in some cases but I still use some of the GM voices still. I removed the melody and other tracks I didn't want and just put in a click track. I wish I could say I did do some custom programming on the sounds but I simply found patches on my Motif that were close then just adjusted the ADSR to suit. But having the song playing with the GM sounds was a great starting point.


And my band plays live to the sequence, the sequence just plays the parts that would would otherwise be missing.


[This message has been edited by Nigel (edited 08-27-2005).]

Thanks, Nigel.

Hi Nigel...
Where do you find the GM sequences for songs on the internet? Is it a variety of places or one place in particular. How do you search for them?

I just do a Google search putting the song name in quotes eg. "Hella Good" and the word MIDI then check out the sequences that I find in the results. I actually didn't have to look for too long usually before I find what I am looking for. And nowadays most sequences are more than likely going to be GM compatible just because that standard is supported by most computers.


[This message has been edited by Nigel (edited 09-06-2005).]

Also, it is good to google for MIDI Search engines like this one: http://www.vanbasco.com/search

There are more out there of coarse.

-ED-

Great post Ed.

prolly wouldn't be a bad idea if we someday went and posted all of our .mid file sources on the net.

about the topic
there is a device, a trigger if you will call it that (I guess that's what it is) that you can attach to a bass drum (or whatever is best suited for the material) that resets the down beat of a midifile. I can't remember what the hell the name it was given but it's just a little box long and skinny about the size of an old airline pack of smokes (yes, some of us were around when you were allowed to smoke on aircrafts and they used to give out cigarettes while in flight). Anyway, it works pretty good and it does a fine job in eliminating drummers going off sync and a quantized beat sound that can actually spoil the expression given by delayed and advanced beats in material.
I believe it was Steinberg that first realized this when they came out with a de-quantizing function and then later on refined the function with adjustments of early and late by overall percentage of the beat, or by previous beat.

IGGY,

We are all rookies at everything. That is, until you reach about 100 years old or so.