Between an open keyboard and a closed keyboard with lots of expandability?

The number of fanboys.

chas

Whats the difference between a Yamaha arranger a Korg arranger and a Roland arranger??

Lots of fanboys

probably the amount of time you may need to spend and potentially money to get the instrument set up and ready to play the way most people use an arranger. The amount of potential with an open aranger would seem limitless . But time and money perhaps not so limitless.

Thanks for bringing it around to a more serious level Spalding

"But time and money perhaps not so limitless"

Yep totally agree

Dennis

Yup...and...if you wanna Play you gotta Pay!

1. If you want a keyboard where everything is done for you, and you are happy to accept what the manufacture supplies for you, then a closed keyboard is the way to go.

2. If you want to do your own thing, use the sounds and software you want, are prepared to put the work in and never have to buy a new keyboard (Just update the Hardware/Software) then an open keyboard is for you

To sum up

OOTB experience, go for closed

Do your own thing, go for open

If you want to just TALK about making music, but never actually post any, an open arranger is by far the best way to go...

But why is a Korg Pa 2x pro, Yamaha Motif xs not call an open keyboard?
After all you can increase the ram and you can load new sounds on both of those boards?

And you can do a lot of creation on those boards.

1. The Korg is one of the better arrangers out there as you can at least load in 3rd party sounds, (Akai) however an open keyboard can also load VSTi which takes it way beyond anything a closed arranger can achieve. (There are hundreds of different VSTi manufactures out there)

2. You can fully update the OS to achieve whatever you want. (A closed keyboard has limited resources to do this (Lack of available ROM memory etc.) so that if you want a big upgrade, you have to buy a new board)
EG. To update to a T3 from a T1, or a PA1x to a PA2x you have to buy a new keyboard, however if they were open (Software) you could have just bought a software update to do the same thing at a fraction of the price.

3. New software often requires updated hardware, and closed keyboard hardware cannot be upgraded without buying a new keyboard, whereas an open keyboard uses a standard PC computer to run the software, and so can easily be updated without needing to change the entire keyboard.

4. All open keyboards have at least a 24 bit 96 KHz sound system, (The studio and production standard for many years) whereas closed arrangers tend to have the old 16 bit 44 KHz system. (Now coming on for 30 years old)

I hope the above helps to clear up some of the confusion

Bill

I think we really need to tie down a concise and accurate definition of what we call a closed and open arranger. I am not sure we have all the pieces yet.

[This message has been edited by spalding1968 (edited 05-08-2010).]

Spalding, Bill already did that and that is actually the difference between the two of them.
It doesnt really take big Philosophy, even the Oasys itself wasnt an open synth, for now there is
only 3 of them i think, Open Labs, Wersi and Liontracs.

Wersi are gone. It's just the Neko and the MS...

And 90% of all music listened to is on iPod's and MP3's. A 96/24 audio output is totally unnecessary. Everything that's been a success on the radio and charts for the last thirty years has been AT BEST 16/44. Didn't stop them from being hits. Didn't stop them from being great.

But it's a nice point to bring up in defense of the open keyboard, given how little music has been posted... Hey! Your music sounds unbalanced, disjointed and vaguely Casio-like... but it's 24/96! Wow... it MUST be good then, eh?

So, if you like talking specs (and not posting music), once again, an open arranger gives you everything you might need.

Diki
I wish you would get your facts right for once, and stop bending statements because it doesn’t suit your point of view. (When will you learn that you are not the centre of the universe?)

1. Wersi has not gone, they have been bought by Musicstore, who at present are in the process of getting the Pegasus Wing to a wider audience before moving on to others. (All options and upgrades for existing owners of OAS 7 are also still available)

2. I did not say you couldn’t get a Quality sound from 16 bit 44 KHz, I was just answering the question of what the differences are between Open & closed keyboards, and the sound system is one of them.

3. Pop into the real world for a change, if you look at downloads, the 256/320K mp3 are on the increase, plus they will shortly be overtaken by the 24 bit FLAC compression system, (Although the original designers of mp3 are also working on a version that is compatible with 24 bit sound systems) which is becoming the norm for network streaming systems. (Even TVs are starting to come as standard with it)

Bill

BTW: Blue Ray discs use uncompressed audio, not compressed as DVD does, and if you can’t easily tell the difference in quality between them, (It’s actually a bigger difference then between an SD & HD picture) then your comments on the quality of music posts are quite frankly not relevant.

Hi Bill
maybe I know why Diki have to discuss about the Blue Ray and DVD quality...

The same happen with my baby girl of 3 years old..
I put one VHS tape carton on TV and she was waching the whole movie without cry and never moved till the end.
Then I have changed and inserted one new Blue Ray disk carton movie..
She waching again the whole movie same as before, she dont understand nothing about the quality..
I think Diki listen and watching music on the same way...

Ah...the only BIG issue that she found on the Blue Ray movie...Dad...SKIP the all Intros and advertisement!!

Spalding, Bill already did that and that is actually the difference between the two of them.
It doesnt really take big Philosophy, even the Oasys itself wasnt an open synth, for now there is
only 3 of them i think, Open Labs, Wersi and Liontracs.

So does the new Groove station have the same functionality as the older mediastation pro or is it different ? Can a mediastation pro be turned into a Groove station and if so at what cost?

Is it the same OS on the mediatstion that is on the new groove station ?

Would there be any advantage to an MS pro user buying a groove station instead ?

These are genuine questions . I am not looking for an argument.

I don't consider Wersi an open arranger... yes it you can load VST's... but can you use all kinds of PC software like Ableton live?

From the 3 you name, i don't consider Wersi an open system and i consider Open labs most open. There is no real dedicated interface at all on open labs instruments...

There is no closed and open arranger, there is a gradient line and all arrangers hoover soemwhere on that line, Open labs on top. and the cheep Yamaha's that can't load any sounds or styles and even don't have a sequencer are at the bottom of that line..

But there is no clear and open rule as what is an open system and what is a close system.

Hi spalding



Same functionality, but the Groove Series would be using higher revision boards (better sound quality) and faster PC based systems (including the ability to have more RAM)



Yes, should cost in around 500+ euro if you go for the new sound board too, although you don't need it. The core parts you need would be a graphics card, motherboard, CPU and RAM.



There's only one type of OS for all keyboards at the moment. To make use of the newer OS though MS users would have had to upgrade parts inside the keyboard.



I'd say yes but it depends on your view. Buying the newer keyboard allows you to sell the older one. Between selling the older one and paying the difference to get a new one, you do get a new keyboard with all brand spanking new parts inside and the warranty rather than the hassle of upgrading the older unit.

So it would be worth looking at how much it would cost to upgrade an old MS VS buying a new Groove and selling the old MS.

Regards
James

320kbps MP3 is still inferior to even 16/44 wave... and yet that is considered the HIGH end of music delivery for a lot of people.

I use decent nearfields and a 24 bit converter on my pro work, but that doesn't mean, at the end of the day, that it is not converted to 16/44 for CD release, and then converted to MP3 for electronic delivery, and that every keyboard on every CD made prior to just a few years ago (and STILL the overwhelming majority of WS's and arrangers still in production) were no better than 16 bit. It didn't stop them being huge successes (contrary to the MS).

Looking at the broader picture, the bitdepth of the final output of a keyboard is quite possibly the LEAST important spec of all. As I have so often said, sh*t through 24 bit converters is still sh*t. And a great sound through 12 bit converters (remember all the hits made on EmulatorII's?) is still a great sound.

thanks for that clarification Bill . Amd james thanks for that explanation. Sop what are second hand mediastationselling for currently ?

I will sell you mine Spalding, so I can buy the X7, if you like...Might be a bit exxy geting it to USA though

But it does have the new graphics card, new quad core processor and 6 gig of ram..

Dennis