I’ve been reading through the “stage piano” and the “Roland Prelude” thread and it got me interested all over again in looking at an entry level arranger. So I packed my lunch and was all set to go up to Sam Ash when I remembered my experiences there from the last few years.

First time I go up there to look at the Roland and Korg arrangers. No one knows how to demo them (actually it would probably be more accurate to say no one even knows how to play). Next time I went I called first to inquire if anyone was on hand to give me a proper demo. The salesperson assured me he knew what he was doing. I called once more on the morning of the day I was coming. Again more reassurance. When I got to the store, I should have guessed what was coming. The salesman asked me to wait while he tried to locate the manual so he could figure the machine out. I was left fumbling around on the keyboard with no one in the store knowledgeable enough to answer any questions.

Last week I decided to call the manager of the store and tell him of the above experience. I made it a point to tell him I wasn’t complaining, just looking for a solution to this dilemma. I told him I was NOT going to buy a keyboard without hearing it being played. He was indifferent….paid me lip service…..defended his salesmen to the nth degree (they don’t have enough time to learn all the keyboards). I countered with: “I’m not the only one who won’t buy a new keyboard without it being demo’d first. This is only a basic arranger keyboard, it’s not rocket science. And, furthermore, that’s where the market is nowadays….no one wants to take the time to learn to play actual music. And…if you hired just one demonstrator to play the keyboards exclusively and you sold only one additional keyboard a week, that will probably pay his salary.” It all fell on deaf ears.

I then called Sam Ash corporate headquarters and spoke to the man in charge of marketing. I got the same response. No enthusiasm whatever. Listened to what I had to say, but not real interested in doing anything about it.

With the stone cold truth now staring me straight in the eye, I have many, many mixed thoughts on “where do I go from here with the music…and a keyboard to play it on?” What do some of you think about this situation that we’ve all encountered over and over again? And what are YOUR solutions for dealing with it. I’m all out of ideas.

Lucky

Lucky, you are probably FAR better qualified to demo the keyboard yourself than 99% of most salesman. For starters, you are pretty familiar with how to PLAY an arranger - many salesmen, if players at all, are probably live band musicians, and as we all know, playing an arranger is quite different to normal playing.

And really, c'mon... all you have to do is pick a style, pick a RH sound, and hit PLAY! How hard can that be?! Finding out how it sounds in YOUR hands is probably better than listening to some salesman who probably knows little about arrangers, if anything at all, and a better situation to judge whether you want it or not. Either the salesman is a GREAT player, and you'll be disappointed when you get it home, or he's a terrible player, and will make it sound awful! In which case, you won't take it home...

Trust your own judgment and experience, and make sure the store has a good return policy, and make yourself aware of any restocking fees if you choose to return it. Then come here for answers. Best knowledge base about arrangers on the planet...

Unless, of course, you are within travelling distance of dealers like Frank or George.

Lucky

We're all in the same situation. No stores want to carry a lot of inventory and salespeople for the most part come and go very fast. My experience with the Roland BA330 amp confirmed this. Couldn't find a store that had it so I ordered it online. Didn't do it for me and I sent it back. Read all you can, talk to others who have it, and then get your best deal from a place that will let you try it out for 30 days. Most stores do that now because of this exact situation. Sam Ash, guitar Center, Carvin and Sweetwater all offer money back deals. You just have to pay the shipping both ways.
I'm interested in the GW8 but can't see or hear one anywhere so I may take a shot in the dark and have to pay the shipping again if I don't like it

Good luck

Bill in NJ

It costs money to provide the kind of service you are asking for in a music store. I'm guessing that the majority of people do all their 'demo'ing', using the store's personnel, resources, etc., and then go purchase on the Internet. It's hard to complain about service in a situation like this. I do this myself, but not without giving the local store an opportunity to price match, which they almost always do.

As usual, it's two sides to every story.

chas

In my part of the U.S. I've always been fortunate in being able to shop at stores that have knowledgeable sales persons. The local music store no longer carries high end keyboards, mainly because of buying programs dictated by manufacturers. However, the owner and service persons know keyboards and operating systems better than most folks.

I agree with much of what Diki said--trust your instincts and judgement. The kids working at GC are mainly high-school and college age and what they know about arranger keyboards and synths can be written on the head of a pin and have room left to write a small manuscript.

I also suggest traveling to hear other performers using various arrangers. I've personally traveled more than 20,000 miles during the past decade to hear various arrangers and sound systems. The added benefit is you get to meet up with a lot of very talented individuals who frequent the Synthzone and other music forums. Lots of very knowledgeable individuals here who are usually more than willing to lend a hand.

Good luck on your search,

Gary

Lucky- at least you could find what you're looking for. It is very rare that I can ever find what I would like to try out. I've had to pay a "return" fee several times. I guess we are a niche market.


Bill Lewis- just curious what you didn't like about the BA 330. Have tried the SA 300? I know they are very hard to find...

Youtube has become the new Audition tool for musicians looking to buy gear......search, watch, buy, return, rinse and try again. And most of all dont listen to anyone, YOU make the call for Your needs only.

Good luck.

...by placing an order online!

Montuneman

The Ba330 just didn't have enough punch for me. Some love it but even in my basement studio it couldn't beat out a single 10" Pa cabinet with a powered mixer. As I posted I think its perfect for an acoustic guitar/singer doing an outside gig or maybe a solo pianist. Great mixer, built well, battery power, and maybe with the addition of a small sub good but there goes the simplicity I was looking for.
The SA200 is impossible to find anywhere and I'm not buying one online. if I don't like its too expensive to pay the shipping both ways to return it.
So far my Carvin LM 12's just can't be beat.

Bill in NJ

Bill

As said above... the only real way of demoing a new keyboard is to take your headset to a shop and play the instruments extensively.

It prolly takes you atleast an hour to get a good idea about a keyboard/arranger and the options, styles and sounds quallity.

It's also a good idea to take what you are currently using, set it up next to the new gear, and A/B them rigorously. If you have a pocket recorder, patch that in as well, then go home and listen again objectively to the recording of the two (you hear things differently when you are not playing), and decide then. I am VERY slow when it comes to gear purchases. I'd rather go back to the store two or three times (if it is local!) and get it right than have to return something (and take a restocking hit) I have purchased...

Living in a very small market in upstate New York I feel your pain... I usually drag my wife on a overnight field trip to a major market like Phillie or New York....Only have a Guitar Center here and most of the employees are just kids usually more interested in talking among themselves instead of helping a customer..... They just want you to walk up to the register with your item and pay... that's it... So it is a little mini vacation and off to the music store in a major market.... I have good luck doing this finding the right sales people...

I've bought my last 3 keyboards from online dealers. Both had 30 day return policies and no restocking fees. I've been 100% satisfied. In my case Yamaha had plenty of demos before their keyboards were released and my European friends were able to buy theirs several months before any US release. Their reviews made me more comfortable with my purchase. Having 30 days to audition an instrument in your own home's acoustics scores high marks with me. Good luck! -charley

Lucky,

Your luck is in at least as far as the Korg PA500 is concerned ! As generally known by now I purchased one two months ago and have been programming extensively,now drawing to its final stages. I am uploading several extensive sound/style demos of my work on Rapidshare shortly, within a week that is, so just check this forum as far as that is concerned. Sorry I cannot help you out with all the other keyboards but it's a decent start I should think, and judging from your initial interest also within your (financial) target group.

regards,
John Smies
Holland

You oughta check out Alto Music in Middletown, NY. Huge store with an impressive array of keyboards on the floor. Great prices, too.

Tim

Lucky,
I have purchased 4 arrangers without hearing them first. My first was a Yamaha 740. I purchased it because it had a return policy. I could try it for a couple of weeks and send it back if I didn't like it.

My Ketron X1 I purchased because Uncle Dave Boyd said it was a top of the line arranger. I bought it from Don Mason.

I purchased Don Mason's Ketron Sd-1 because I liked my x1 and I knew if Don liked it, it would be good for me.

I purchased my Roland G-70 again because Fran and Diki were saying good things about it on the forum.

It is not a life long commitment. If you purchase a totl arranger and it doesn't fit you then sell it.

Tom

[This message has been edited by Tom Cavanaugh (edited 05-11-2010).]

i recently purchase my new keyboard after thorough online research. youtube is good to listen to demos & some owners playing. read online reviews like what we have here. i joined music forum & get some opinions. i also downloaded the manual & read it through. at the same time i did visit the shop & just tried it out without the support of any salesman. well, he did show me where the keyboard is & made sure it got power. & finally i decided to right model for me