I don't see where personal attacks fit in anywhere on this thread/forum.

Bah! Disgusting!

Diki used this sign many times here on forum. no miracle, see comparison of his photo with that sign which demonstrates his behavior,


lol



[This message has been edited by AFG Music (edited 05-21-2010).]

And this, boys and girls, is what passes for reasoned discussion on this forum...

Way I see the numbers, it isn't me against the world. It is the TINY, tiny minority of open keyboard users against the world. No-one buys into this boondoggle, especially here. Your post about Tastenpoint only JUST admitting that the Groove is finally a viable commercial product is somehow jumped on as a positive point, rather than an admission that, despite the EXACT same fanboy behavior being exhibited for the last five or more years (by some of the exact same people), it WASN'T.

Choice of keyboard, especially for professionals, isn't a matter of BELIEF. It a matter of FACT. It isn't religion, it is WORK.

When you pick something to work with, there are a few factors to consider... how much does it cost, how does it sound, how well does it work, how much time will it take to prep it for a gig (anybody gigging with their MS yet? Anyone...? Using it as an arranger? ), what kind of dealer support and warranty and repair support will you get, how robust and roadworthy it is. It isn't about picking a 'concept' and going with that, whether it is practical or not...

I might be one of the few posting about these issues, but don't let that fool you. The fact that open arrangers have the tiniest of tiny sales numbers (even the �ber-expensive Audya is outselling the MS by a vast margin) simply shows that, when push comes to shove, MOST potential purchasers take these factors into consideration and walk away...

It isn't me against the world. It is YOU... And you are the ones that are saying you are right and everyone else is wrong! Not me I am merely articulating WHY most people are eschewing them.

Diki
AS I said to Chas, go back and read my posts over the years, before you start generalising on whose playing at being the centre of the universe. (Also don�t forget to look in the mirror)

Bill

Question

Why has this thread gone to 2 pages, when the original post was a link to the Lionstracs forum for those that may have been interested, rather than a dedicated General Arranger keyboard post?

The post was designed so that if you weren�t interested, you could ignore it with having to read through all the thread to find something that might interest you. (An idea which could also be applied to the other SZ dedicated forums)

It was a link to some MUSIC... one of the rarest occurrences in the MS world. As such, it deserved some comment, especially as I have been asking for this for YEARS..!

Where it went after that is in large degree due to how thin-skinned the open community is. Somehow, they think it is their right to criticize and denigrate closed arrangers and their users, but somehow feel discriminated against when the same thing is done to THEM.

All I have ever done is post about potential caveats and pitfalls of using these things. I have never needed to sling personal attacks at those that use them, I don't post pictures of THEM online and guffaw, I stick relentlessly about the issues solely. And this is what passes for counter argument...

Real mature...

I guess when you can't come up with anything sensible to say, you just stick your tongue out and go 'Nya nya nya nya nya'....

Oh, and Bill... go back and read this thread in its' entirety. Look at who brought up being at the center of the universe first...

I find it VERY telling that all I have to do is criticize the keyboard. I don't find it necessary to criticize any person. They aren't the issue. Curiously, though, my antagonists on this issue seem to think that I am fair game rather than the issues themselves. I guess, when you don't actually HAVE an answer to the issues, best response is to attack the poster...

Diki

1. The universe quote did not start in this thread; I have mentioned it many times before in reply to your constant comments implying that because a keyboard (Closed or Open) doesn�t do what �You� want, others should not consider it, or there must be something wrong with it.

2. I have always answered factually on any queries or points you have made, (Although it is noticeable that you have ignored many that didn�t fit your point of view) so don�t try and twist the facts, to try and make it look like users are ganging up on you, just accept the fact that not everyone in the world wants the same as you.

Regards

Bill

Bill, you are unfortunately lumped in with many that DON'T respond the way you do. I don't see you chiding the open fans the way you do me, yet their ignoring of valid points is almost total... Sauce for the goose...

In fairness, Bill, you don't even HAVE an MS, and many of its' shortcomings don't affect the Wersi's, who have integrated style player and VSTi to a greater degree than Lionstracs. Primarily, my remarks have pretty much all been addressed at the MS and it's fans, who still have this habit of completely ignoring or deriding ANY comment bringing a degree of reality back into their rose tinted view.

To this date, for instance, no-one has YET really addressed the scale of the workload needed to make a gig-ready product from the barebones that the MS starts from. You don't have that issue, Wersi having spent quite a lot of money to make sure that Yamaha Mega-voice styles DO work well, without needing tedious translation and editing.

But look, no-one is telling anyone in the open community to NOT post about it. But apparently, some of them (perhaps not you, but you can see the posts of those that do) feel that it is not my right (and I guess, by extension, anyone else trying to make the same points) to keep bringing these points up... And, I'm afraid, I am NOT going to be silenced until someone actually steps up to the plate and PROVES what they say. Until then, I just feel that every position needs a counter position to balance it.

Until it is illustrated with example, rather than rhetoric.