I think I already addressed this, AFG... For starters, Dom isn't actually doing this. Some third party is doing the cloning, and made a proper balls-up of it, from what you all say. So, not exactly making mighty Yamaha quake in their boots, yet. James already explained what a herculean task it is to do this well.

But, at some point or another, it will become a reality. Whereupon, things may change. You all THOUGHT Ketron's styles were easy pickings, until Ketron got around to telling you that they WERE copyrighted. I imagine the same thing will happen for the internal ROM sounds. Just because you can't FIND a copyright notice (anybody even LOOK?) doesn't mean that copyright doesn't exist.

James, I am SURE that there never has been a situation before where a ROMpler was totally cloned. You are moving into new territory with this. Yes, I can still see that doing this for one's own use is possibly legal, but I still don't see how you get round the distribution problem. Anyway, would you all change your opinions one jot if Yamaha SAID their samples were copyrighted? Somehow, I doubt it. Not good news for your commercial library, James. Doesn't seem like anyone cares... not even you!

But, as far as I can see, if James thinks he can copyright HIS samples, do you honestly think that Yamaha or any other major manufacturer has forgotten about the issue? The thing you may not realize is, they may not be required to post it front and center, even though James has... Ketron's styles were, are and always will be. Didn't MATTER that you couldn't find the notice... You write a song, copyright it by posting a sealed copy to yourself, and if someone just HEARS you sing it, copies it and has a hit, you can sue for plagiarism. As long as you can PROVE the work was originally yours, it doesn't matter if they didn't SEE the copyright notice. It is assumed.

Proving a sample is an original work is easy. Waveform analysis will easily show a copy to be a clone.

There's always a lag between capability and legislation. But the West is waking up to just how much value is lost to piracy, and are making strides to curtail it. Whether the lawyers wake up and make public their copyright on these sounds (no offense, James, but if you can copyright yours, Yamaha can copyright theirs) quickly is up to them, and how they perceive the threat. At the moment, it's no big deal. But if the technology ever matures to the point where it actually WORKS well (without prodigious effort and skill), don't be surprised at how things change...

I never really DID come out and say "I told you so' about the Ketron style issue, that you were CONVINCED were not copyrighted. I hate to say it, but I have a feeling you are all going to discover that things are not quite the way you think they are about this issue, too.

Diki,

why you change James answer with your own words?

and then you think that the answer of James was what you think?

is this your habit?

you are doing this with response from others too?

have you read those links about copyright?

James said I can not copyright my sound library sounds, but I can copyright my works.

for example:

someone buys James sounds for MS.he load the sound with linuxsampler on MS, then he goes through the audio output of MS to sample the sound produced by MS Hardware, but with James source sound.

James can not do anything here,

but if buy the sound and make a copy, you are copying James work, so you broken copyright here. The same happens when you're entering inside the Yamaha rom sound chip for example to copy raw PCM data too, here you are copying Yamaha works, so you broken copyright.

James is this what you say? let know if I'm wrong..........

is here the difference on copyright between songs sampling and sampling sampple based hardware music instrument sounds?


[This message has been edited by AFG Music (edited 06-11-2010).]

EXACTLY...!!!!
I say one thing and Diki repeats it the way he wants to hear it.

Diki.... I'm done talking with you from this point onwards on all subjects. If there was an ignore button on this forum I'd be after hammering it to death by now.

YOU DO NOT LISTEN TO ANYONE so I'm not going to communicate with you ever again.

It's for the best.

[This message has been edited by Irishacts (edited 06-11-2010).]

No James, it's not for the best. You're both very intelligent, tech-savvy guys with strong opinions that are sometimes (MOST times ) on opposite sides of an issue, BUT.......as a result, many facts and side issues come into play and the rest of us are usually educated by it. Can Diki be a little 'pushy' at times? Yes. Dwell on a point too long? Yes. Be a 'smart-ass' sometimes? Yes, but with the emphasis on 'smart'. I just feel that we all learn more when the two of you ARE communicating....on whatever level.

I feel like I can say these things about Diki because he knows that I consider him a friend, in fact, a valued friend; one I like to bounce things off of, because I know that whatever response I get from him is going to be honest and not sugar-coated. If you read his posts carefully, you will see that he is usually in pursuit of a POINT, not a person. Well, there may a couple of exceptions.........maybe he just doesn't like guys whose name starts with "D" .

You really need to interact with him the way Ian does; with humor, locker room taunting, and friendly cat-fights. You may have noticed; they never go away mad. Diki is smart, talented, and a good guy. Mind you, I wouldn't want to be married to him (assuming I was a woman) but if I'm looking for a friend that's not going to bore me to death, he da man.



chas

Bloody hell James are you sure you won't just want to take a peek and jump in. It's not an ignore button , it's a self destruct button we need. Hold it down. Just go over to SZ MS and we'll all join hands and close ranks, type in code and talk of Giga samples and things.

Pour me another pochin James and play me some soft music and sing me "Danny Boy" on the MS.

So...seem that this old copyright discussion is about resolved...
Candy available...
Login on gFTP and start to download for FREE the new Yammy YXG-GIGAT2 folder.
8.4Gb data, 1003 new Gigasounds.
Tastenpoint audio styles are based also with this new library, you need it for play this styles.
Enjoy

Now you can continue the discussion....started uploading the next big gigasounbank..

so are you saying that Liontracs is not selling yamaha styles or are you saying yamaha styles are not copyrighted ? Lets be clear. Because Dom has boasted many times that he uses yamaha styles and is still bragging that now and yamaha have successfully exerted their copyright over their styles already at least in China so what am i missing James ?

AFG i have read the links you have copied. Now please explain exactly what point you are trying to make.

State clearly what you think the position is in relation to yamaha or korg or ketron styles in terms of whether or not they have protection under copyright laws and if you dont believe they do then please state clearly why you think that is.

1. firstly state whether or not you believe arranger styles created by any of the arranger manufacturers is intellectual property capable of being protected by copyright laws or not. If not state clearly why and how the laws outside china differ in relation to what can be regarded as intellectual property compared to say europe .
2. Secondly if styles can be treated as intellectual property (as already demonstrated in china) then who holds the copyright if not the manufacturers?


If you direct me to links then point out specifically what you think is the RELEVANT difference in relation to the copyright of styles.

Dom you sound really confident . Lets have some fun. Your really confidemnt of your position arnt you ? I mean yamaha cant touch you can they ? How about you write to yamaha and tell them what you are doing and post up their response ???? You can then have bragging rights for years to come and Diki nor i can say a word about it becuase you told us so didnt you ? Dont wimp out now ! Whatr have you got to lose ????? I mean you are so confident of your position right? Ok that might be a bit too risky for you i know :-) How about you post up whatever legal advice you have sought to confirm that you are not breaking any copyright laws by using other manufacturers styles and packaging them when you sell your instruments....oh and by the way post up the name of the Law firm that gave you this advice....if they are brave enough to give it. Go on Dom. Either write to Yamaha or chicken out and post up tyhe legal advice you have recieved.

I double dare ya :-)

Hi spalding.



I'm saying that Lionstracs are nether selling or giving away for free any Yamaha styles in any shape or form.

If you want to use a Lionstracs keyboard as an arranger you have to do two things.

1: Buy the computer program Live Arranger off the guy that developed it.
2: Get your own styles to run on it. Be it freely downloaded of the net, or you buy them.

Either way you will get none off Lionstracs as they don't sell them or give them away for free with their keyboards.



If that's what he said then he very likely means that he is personally using Yamaha styles. It does not mean he is selling his keyboards with styles preloaded onto them.

As for the copyright and Yamaha winning a case in China. None of it effects Lionstracs as they do not sell or give away styles. So regardless of what anyone thinks Yamaha have accomplished here, None of it applies to Lionstracs at all.

Kind Regards
James