No AFG i am not doing the same as Diki ! I have not read every single thing that has ever been posted on the forum nor will i as most of it is not relevant to me ! You never said as far as i can tell that Liontracs dont sell the Mediastaion with styles on it anymore. Instead you posted links to web sites on copyright and the differences between countries which actually had NOTHING WHATSOEVER TO DO WITH THE TRUTH OF WHAT DOM WAS NOW DOING. The answer to my questions in relation to Dom and the Liontracs product had nothing to do with how copyright laws worked from different countries so what the hell were you doing posting those links ? You were the one that posted the judgement that yamaha obtained on the copying of yamaha styles ! You asked what it meant and i explained to you what it meant and you then tried to hint that it meant that copyright for styles may not be protected outside of china just because it was the first time that styles had been considered under copyright law ! That was certainly the implication of your remark and if it wasnt please explain what the hell you actually meant when you said '




Clearly none of it had any relevance to the fact that Dom nolonger sold the MS with ANY STYLES !

Even in the links you have just included above you have not specifically mentioned what the hell it is you want me to understand from the links !

But what i did read from those links according to Dom himself was

'in this last 5 years that our sound designer have cloned with the Extreme sample converter, ton of Yamaha, Roland, Korg.... sounds and aslo styles.
NO one of this brand till today sent me ONE email, Fax or any call...it mean that anybody there are totally FREE to clone what they want, including Ketron sounds...
More you pressing on this argument and more I have fun to pay new developers to clone the all is possible.
Are years that I'm waiting for a nice call from this big brands....someone there is interested to buy my whole project and stopping all??
Just call...I'm always here waiting How can you '

Then he said as a side note

'Just anotgher note:
when someone download and install my new OS 4.0, do NOT include ANY GIGA/VST sounds and styles!
we include also one basic Debian sounds installer of our Giga soundbank GM and some Free VST/Asio Demo version host, thats all.
what then the custumers will install on the 250/1T Gb Hard disk is NOT our problem.'

So as of OS version 4 Dom stopped packaging cloned styles despite him boasting in the same thread that anyone can copy whatever they want ! Yeah right ! So what he was doing prior OS 4 of the MS WAS HIGHLY LIKELY TO BE ILLEGAL regardless as to whether yamaha took any notice or not !

Just so that everyone knows what kind of businessman you are Dom.

Can you publically state in thiS thread whether you sold MS units with yamaha copyrighted styles on the unit previously . James doesnt know your history and seems to think you only did it for private use.....

People need to know the kind of folk they are creating associations with.....

1- i did not ask you anything, becouse i know what the Yamaha article means.

see the first topic link i give you on Page 3 on that topic, my post to Diki:

and diki please read this about flie extensions: http://trademarklawbriefs.com/?p=48

but yamaha Copyrighted his styles: http://www.global.yamaha.com/news/2008/20080508.html

so, yamaha styles are copyrighted but not the yamaha file extensions, so user can use if they pay orginal yamaha or ketron style with ketron or yamaha hardware or third party software. if they create own styles in yamaha or ketron format they are free to use it with yamaha or ketron hardware or thirdparty software that can work with this 2 brands style extensions.

maybe i read it again wrong!!!!!!!


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2-this is my answer on page 3 here to Bachus:

something that has copyright somewhere in the world, has in a different place no copyright,
that is the point that you can see from that article.

the court was the only worldwide, and only in China and first court, which recognizes Copyright on Yamaha Rom Styles............

what you are saying to me about purchase Yamaha-Ketron-Roland.......... styles or third party styles , I have long before said on another topic to others.

Search the topic


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and this are your words spalding1968:

that it meant that copyright for styles may not be protected outside of china just because it was the first time that styles had been considered under copyright law ! That was certainly the implication of your remark and if it wasnt please explain what the hell you actually meant when you said 'that it meant that copyright for styles may not be protected outside of china just because it was the first time that styles had been considered under copyright law ! That was certainly the implication of your remark and if it wasnt please explain what the hell you actually meant when you said '

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so spalding1968 where did you read that i said yamaha styels are not copyrighted outside China????????????


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3-see the first topic link i give you on Page 2 on that topic, my post to Diki:

but on roland Va-76 orginal zip you have about 500 midi songs if i remember! what about that? what i read as you write here is again it can play the format. you're as user responsible for how you use that product.buy original styles or midi for example, but also copy. for copy roland says we are not responsible.

the same is with livestyler or varranger you get a software without styles. you can buy always orginal styles. livestyler and varranger are just a player. and diki do not get me wrong, I have nothing against you or others here trust me. I respect copyright thats why i create my own styles.

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spalding1968 i said that Live-Arranger on MS does not include any style on that topic, Live Arranger is not Lionstracs software, it is a third party software and i said this also on that topic,

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So spalding1968 first read well. if you do not understand what a person means ask again for better explanation.better to do this before you starting prejudices someone.


Again:
I first posted one more time about Yamaha article here, because Diki in his post to James claimed that open source users claim that no copyright exists on Style.......... so he ignored my post to himself on the topic that i send the link here.
.
I again tried to put a link between Yamaha style lawsuit article and sample-based music instruments sound sampling, so

I tried to alert this:

if Yamaha start a Lawsuit for styles, in China, why are they doing not anything against sample-based instrument sound sampling? The answer is because Yamaha itself sample also real instruments and analog synth sounds.


[This message has been edited by AFG Music (edited 06-12-2010).]

Talk about the 'ignore' button...

I feel that not ONE of you have adequately addressed the points that I have brought up, other than to basically cross your fingers and HOPE for the best...

And come on! That tired styles issue was put to rest a while ago. Ketron stated loud and clear that their styles WERE copyrighted. That anyone thinks the SOUNDS aren't also is just basically HOPING.

I have an email in to Yamaha, that hopefully will get answered definitively. It is disappointing that no-one here thought to try this, but then again, who WANTS to have their hopes dashed..?!

But here's the deeper question... Do none of you see the ultimate bankruptcy of the whole 'open' concept, that here we are, talking about cloning a closed arranger to be able to adequately play back its' styles...? If the promise of the open arranger had any legitimacy whatsoever, none of you would even be considering this boondoggle, already having MUCH better sounds and styles at your fingertips.

But you DON'T.

So, this is the best that the open keyboard can promise us... the ability to sound JUST like a closed arranger... (not that anyone takes that seriously, at the end of the day). Wow! What a giant leap forward!

If this isn't a warning to anyone looking to get one of these as an arranger, I don't know what is. Yep, an arranger SO good, its' owners are desperate to be able to clone a REAL arranger, just so it starts to sound good (or at least as good as a closed arranger). And, apparently, not all that concerned whether cloning is legal in the first place...

I mean, as long as you never ask anyone that KNOWS, you should be OK, shouldn't you?

James, I simply don't get it. What can you POSSIBLY have done, that garners you legal protection for your sampling work, that doesn't afford any arranger manufacturer the same protection?

Once upon the time Da Vinci painted Mona Lisa (Leo created the Rhodes) and then some guy
came along and made a copy of it (Korg sampled the Rhodes in their Keyboard) and out of
nowhere people started recopying the Mona Lisa and selling smaller versions (Korg did it in few
of their instruments) and then kids at home started printing copies of Mona Lisa ( kids started
sampling the Rhodes from Korg)...and so on...anyone on this Copyrights?

I did a Oxygene VIII Combination for M3, JMJ wrote the actual Instrumental. Now, mine is used
for people to play THAT song or Improvise on their own over that beat (which is not the same).
Who cares if JMJ wrote the Instrumental? Why do i have to pay him fees? Did i create actually
the song and sell it as is? NO! And yes i named it exactly as he did. Did he invent the name Oxygene?
And on the other hand, i will sample an instrument from a synth and i will challenge EVERYONE
in here (even DIKI) to analyze it and tell me what it is or if its THAT instrument...and not even
resample it, i will just copy it and rename it. It Sounds exactly the same? Why not??? Maybe i am
that good and i did exactly like that. Those stupid Balkan players that people go crazy over now
use some stupid Sounds on their Korg's. I recreated them up to 100% identical as theirs from ROM
on the Korg's keyboards, I've tried to compare 2 same sounds from 2 different sets, most of the
setting were IDENTICAL (by coincidence), some of them Sound IDENTICAL and all of the settings
are different, even the ROM PCM is different, i just used different methods to achieve the same
Sound. Now...do i owe them anything? That is a simple way of comparison and explanation.
In your own language:
I heard Jump from VanHalen, i created the EXACT sound on one of my synths and now what???

Diki some questions:

if you record a song with your midi sequencer software. it's a midi file and your sounds are from your G-70. Then you record a audio track from midi, and you make CD with that song.

can you sell this CD?

if you sell your G-70,Do You have still the right to use and sell that CD?

answer this please, because i like to say something, after i know your answer on this.



[This message has been edited by AFG Music (edited 06-12-2010).]

I have a better one: i dont have a G70, i borrowed Diki's for few days and created a song...

What is REALLY annoying me about this thread, is those who are trying to paint themselves as "whiter than white" on this issue.

I GUARANTEE they have copyrighted styles on THEIR keyboards, and/or copyrighted samples on THEIR PC's, not too mention a myriad of other lent or "borrowed" software.

Some have even openly admitted it.

And no, buying ONE Yamaha model of arranger does NOT allow you to freely swap styles from any other Yamaha arranger out there. You buy the licence to use styles for that SINGLE keyboard. Same principle applies to Korg et al.

So please stop this puritanical assault when all of you are just as guilty as all the rest of us on this issue!!!!

now Diki does not answer, those simple questions.....

Perhaps the most poignant statement you have made yet James about the whole thing

Dear Irishacts ......
I absolutely comprehend all your arguments ......
I dont have more questions....

Thank you...

[This message has been edited by Sokratis 1974 (edited 06-12-2010).]