Dirty Disco is really nice!

good for "i've had the time of my life"

about that Disco style,
pretty good BUT

man, don't mean to talk bad about Yamaha, BUT i must say what i feel after hearing that

those drums are REALLY bad,
no dynamics whatsoever,
sounds robotic,
sounds way sequenced
quantized 16th notes,
thin,
no realism

sorry, just my opinion,

you have yours... :-)

Thanks for posting these, Donny...I hadn't been on YPKO for a while, so I wasn't aware they were available.

I like them both, although I think I'd get more use out of the Disco style.

I'll pass the good news on to my clients.

Ian

Ian....yes I agree, these are super styles..very realistic to the genre depicted. Yamaha's next offerings in motl/totl arrangers will be AWESOME!
Can't wait!

unless yamaha TOTALLY replaces their drums
they will never be AWESOME in the arranger world, just average, IMO



[This message has been edited by leezone (edited 05-27-2010).]

I'm very content with the present offerings, Donny...I'm doing a lot of recording (making Cds) and the polished quality of the S910, in my case, is perfect for the job.

Rumors are, something new is coming in October 2010...

Ian

Jeez, Lee, give it a rest! You can say the EXACT same thing about every arranger manufacturer out there...

Unless Korg get more than two fills for a four variation arranger (OK, two fills and a break/fill, for the picky! ) "they will never be AWESOME in the arranger world, just average, IMO"

Unless Ketron fix their reliability problems, software glitches and improve their customer/dealer relations "they will never be AWESOME in the arranger world, just average, IMO"

Unless Wersi get back into business properly "they will never be AWESOME in the arranger world, just average, IMO"

Unless Roland return to MOTL and TOTL arranger production, rather than just BOTL ones, "they will never be AWESOME in the arranger world, just average, IMO"

Until Lionstracs integrate style player with soundset and get TOTL styles, "they will never be AWESOME in the arranger world, just average, IMO"

Did I miss anyone?

You may not like Yamaha's drum sound, but at least they don't crash...

I respect your opinion, Lee, and I'm sure there are a few others that might agree with you...however, sales of the Tyros3/S910, and comments at my clinics from both new users, and potential buyers, indicate there are a lot that don't jibe with you.

Weren't you going to buy an Audya? What happened...still too much money for what it does? Still waiting for it to be finished?

Personally, I am glad I am very satisfied with the Yamaha drums, and, I'm also very content that the instruments have been working reliably and functioning as advertised...that means a lot to both pros and home users.

One can only hope the Audya, when you do buy it (that's if you do), will perform to the same high standards of dependability and practicality as the Yamaha.

I'll be looking forward to your review.

Ian

yes, CASIO




yes they do, their Cymbals

Ian,
when did the AUDYA 4/5 release?

I don't know the answer to that one, Lee, as the Audya, and Ketron itself, is somewhat of an enigma in my territory...I'll probably never get a chance to play one, and from what I have been reading here, it still needs to be fine tuned in some areas.

I'm supposing the Audya 4/5 is a new model and what you are waiting for?

Again, I'll be interested in your review, should you ever find your way to buy one.

Ian

Jealousy really deteriorate the brain eh? Sorry but Yamaha has made a believer out of me....all else can catch up whenever if at all.

In a MOTL keyboard???

BTW, these great styles have been around for months. Maybe they've polished them up, I'll have to listen to the demo. I've owned these styles for months now.

Beakybird

Unless its a 76 note version...no interest here I'm afraid

Dennis

I think it's been proven year after year & Yamaha research knows a 76 in an arranger is not needed. They are miles ahead of the competition in arranger sales worldwide.....they know what they are doing for sure.

Donny, I am not disputing, nor disagreeing either, that for one moment

I just saying if there is no 76 model, no interest from me is all

Dennis

I believe it will be TOTL, Larry, and 61 notes, so the "76 crowd" can look elsewhere, and not wait with bated breath.

The S910 is selling very well, and I must say, it is so good, and such a joy to play, I don't really hanker after a Tyros3, and that's sayin' somethin'.

Ian

A quality 76 keybed could make all the difference in the world...till then..I am with Dennis....no interest at all..

Put a great 76 keybed on a Tyros type instrument and a street price of $2,000..and I might be a canidate to buy one..

Maybe I could learn to live with the drums and the XG wave table.........nah...maybe not..

Hi Dnj, I think you've summed it up very well, I fully agree with you, the current crop of styles on the Yamaha are fantastic and very attractive, it just urges you to play.

You mentioned the next Yamaha TOTL keyboard, I can't see how much better it can get! I hope they don't tamper or experiment too much with what they already have, I wouldn't like to see things change so drastically. Also, I wouldn't like to see it go the Audio route either because then it would be just too expensive to afford, I think that would be the wrong way to go especially when they don't need to.

Danny yes I agree ....but I would love them to just talk with players, & professionals who use Yamaha arrangers and work more on navigational changes to make it easier to get around in real time mostly as the sound & styles are truly amazing now, not perfect mind you, but a few tweaks and realism adjustments to some genres like Latin and a few others would be nice. I know they will shine on whatever the next offerings will be.

I can't see you or Dennis interested in anything else...you already have the instruments that meet your needs, or, maybe even surpass them.

The only one of the "big three"(Yamaha, Roland, Korg) currently making a 76'er is Korg.

Ian

Hmmmm is that why you play a 61 key Roland Prelude on stage instead of the 76 key G70?...

Thing is, the same market forces that prevent Yamaha from making a quality 76 are the exact forces that stop them from providing professional features you DO want, Donny...

They make these things for home users ONLY, and you might as well bark at the moon for any pro features to make it into their OS... It's all well and good to make fun of someone ELSE'S pro needs, but it's not so funny when they ignore YOU completely as well, is it?

Ha ha...I was going to mention this, as Fran had made this admission in several posts, but I was too lazy to go dig them out.

As I said earlier, I'm glad I can gig equally well with a 76'er or a 61, as it doubles my choices.

Yamaha stopped making 76 note arrangers (the ill-fated PSR-9000 Pro), as did Roland (G-70/E-60)...must be a reason for them to be discontinued...I'd say it was poor sales.

Very few PSR-9000 Pro and G-70/E-60 were sold in my territory, and we have a healthy arranger market (quite a few pros, too) compared to the rest of Canada.

It would be interesting to see how well these 76-note models did world-wide.

Korg appears to have the 76-note market to themselves, but from what I've read here, and on other forums, the PA-500/800 five octave keyboards allegedly far outsell the 76-note PA2XPro...of course they are cheaper, but if there are so many pros going for 76, why aren't the numbers closer than they stand?

I have a strong feeling there may not be a PA2XPro successor, and that will leave the field to the Mediastation and the Audya.

Time will tell.

Ian

1 GB of factory sound ROM with many incredible sounds
Ability to load multi gigabyte sound files such as Giga
Ability to load many VST's at once
Ability to load AKAI samples
Real Drums
MP3, WAV, CD, DVD, and Video playback
Multitrack sequencer with audio capability
Multitrack direct to disc recording
Full featured arranger controls with editing
Numerous real time controls
Various sound generators including Sampling, FM, analog modeling, and wavetable synthesis
Full drawbars
Harmonizer with dual microphone inputs
Ability to play back numerous styles from other manufacturers using OAA
Ability to play back Yamaha styles directly
Full color high resolution touch screen
Ability for expansion with foot pedals and additional music keyboards
Many more features too numerous to mention

That hardly sounds like an "average" arranger and I can't think of any other arranger with these features at any price. Only the Mediastation comes close but even the MS isn't as well integrated as the Wersi. By the time the big three release a product with these features Wersi and Liontracs will have already added features the other manufacturers haven't even thought of yet.

Think what you will but Wersi has been ahead of the game technologically for quite some time. Their pitfall is that the market for these types of instruments is very small and those that can afford these types of instruments even smaller.

I'd say Yamaha discontinued the 9000 Pro because it had numerous hardware issues that could not be addressed by a software update. Poor sales were a direct reflection of the problems caused by the slow CPU Yamaha decided to use in the 9000 Pro. Word travels fast when problems arise and Yamaha knowing the 9000 Pro was plagued pulled the plug. They made sure the CPU in the Tyros was faster after all the problems they had with the 9000 Pro. You can be certain had Yamaha used the same slow processor in the Tyros, the Tyros would have failed due to numerous hardware and software issues.

It's easier to dupe someone when the intended purpose is for home use and most users aren't savvy. I think Yamaha figured business as usual would work in the Pro Market but it backfired. Serious pros need an instrument that will do what the manufacturer claims and works 24 hours a day 365 days a year. Since the 9000 Pro's demise I believe Yamaha has decided to stick to selling home keyboards which is why the Tyros and PSR series sells well.

Do you mean the same high standards Yamaha had for the likes of the 9000 Pro? What about the issues Yamaha had with various PSR series from outsourcing to third world countries? Hardly what I would call dependable or practical.

Mmmm...let's see...the 9000 Pro was several years ago, and the Tyros being it's replacement, is very stable and very dependable.

Yamaha learned from their mistakes.

Yes, the changeover to third world countries was a bit of a problem at first...most, if not all companies have gone through similar issues when outsourcing.

The current PSR range is exceptionally stable and dependable.

Once again, Yamaha learned from their mistakes.

Thank you for mentioning those issues, and giving me an opportunity to clear them up.

Ian

Yamaha is NOT the leading arranger sales company Worldwide..it is Korg.
In the US...Yes they are.

Lee S.

You could be right...I was not a fan of the 9000 Pro (instead, I bought two PSR-2000 after I sold my two PSR-8000), and I was not keen on the Tyros1 either ( I bought two PSR-3000), as it was not made in Japan, and the instrument's keyboard was not robust enough in my opinion...once again, a result of outsourcing.

I used to feel they put the keyboard of a $500 instrument in a $4500 unit.

But, they learned from their mistakes, and the Tyros2 and Tyros3 have the FSX keyboard, which is considered one of the very best semi-weighted actions.

And yes, the Tyros and PSR are primarily intended for the home user, which is also where the highest profits lie, so, it's a good move to be sure, but, even so, there are many pros using these instruments very productively, including myself.

Now, Roland has given up on 76 note arrangers, leaving Korg as the sole member of the Big Three, to be making them.

As I said earlier, I'd be very surprised if they make a successor to the PA2XPro, although now that they dominate the 76-note market, the profits may be lucrative enough to continue.

Again...time will tell.

What arranger are you presently using?

Ian

[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 05-28-2010).]

I'm fine on stage with the superb fast keyfeel and super styles with MEGA & SAS sounds on my S910 now....just a few navagation changes I would enjoy BUT not required....76 keys is definitly NOT one of them. If this was the last arranger ever made I'd be very happy still.

In the last few years I've used, Yamaha, Roland, Korg and am now back to Yamaha. They are all great boards in their own right. but currently for my taste and especially my audiences Yamaha does the best overall job. This s910 is a winner in my opinion. Like Ian I'd rather use the s910 than the Tyros3. Just my preference.

Whoever is leading in arranger sales is not important...both companies sell a lot of arrangers.

Sales of Korg arrangers in my territory, are very small, and none of the 15 dealers/stores I do clinics for, carry Korg arrangers, and we have a fairly large market for this type of instrument.

The few Korgs I've seen are mostly workstations...I just got a great old 1978 Korg synth, that is in mint shape and just being cleaned and detailed before it goes to it's new owner...a PS-3200 analog polyphonic...built like a tank, and fully poly...FAT sound...Korg did make, and still make, great products.

Ian

The only reason I use the Prelude...and full well know I compromise.. ....

I use the Prelude "only" when I perform with the band....Why?..We use MP3 backing tracks..and there is not a better , easier to use player than can be found on the Prelude...

We also have limited space on stages as a trio, and the sacrifice is a smaller footprint (keyboard)...so..the Prelude is the only 61 key instrument I would use..Compromise..yes the key feel and navigation are no where near the G70..but exceeds the poor key feel of the PSR line up, and the PSR still could not do the job of the Prelude for me..

My solo and even most of my duo work..you will find the G70 on stage..

Solo work, I do not even use the laptop, but for duo, you will see the laptop too..

What I really wish for..is that Roland came out with an MP3 upgrade (player) as they did with the E80 (only faster and smoother as the Prelude player)..I am not convinced that the G70 lacks the hardware to be able to upgrade this feature..If this was possible..you can bet your "bippy" that you would always see the G70 on stage..

Don't be too surprised if you see my MS on stage in the very near future..Dom has some of the features ready to expand my use of the MS on stage..

I really can not understand ...why any professional player would rather play the poor key feel keyboards on stage over a key bed that allows the proper connection of player and sound...

To each his own..

Yamaha should add the 2 live control knobs/arpeggiator that's on the PSR E423. (Just bought one for my office at the church.) If this feature were included on the MOTL arrangers, it would add a whole new realm of creative possibilities, especially if it were linked to the arranger engine, allowing you to incorporate arps into songs and recording patterns to the multi-pads. I personally find the 423 an amazing board for its price point. It's a sleeper of keyboard IMO.

Fast & Light weight key-feel is what I love for my playing.....again we all have different needs.....to me the S910 should even be lighter in overall weight also 15 lbs max is what they need to be down to in today's tech age.....no useless real estate required....."Keyboard J's" like Fran & I can do it easily with any Kb & a Laptop on stage period for any gig!

Having you understand why I would use a lighter action keyboard is not one of my life's priorities, Fran, but, I will tell you this...the PSR S910's keyboard has a terrific connection of player and sound.

I like the PSR action even more than semi-weighted FSX...the important thing is, at least for me, is that the velocity response gives me full control, which on the PSR-S910, is excellent...you can even press a key slow enough so that there is no sound; much like that of an acoustic piano.

Given that the overall weight of the instrument is 25 lbs, the advantages are even more apparent...plus, I have no problem using 5 octaves, whereas some may need 76 notes to do a proper performance, I can safely say that 61 keys are perfect for my needs.

My days of lugging around a 50 lb arranger, and equally heavy speakers are over...too many years of brutal martial arts, and hauling around heavy instruments has taken it's toll on my lower back, so I appreciate the luxury of having instruments and speakers that weigh less than 30 lbs, yet still give me all the performance I need...without sacrificing quality in any way.

It's nice you are content with the G-70, but please don't think for one minute that it's necessary for the rest of us to own one in order to have a high quality playing experience...that's just not so, and my own experience bears this out totally.

Ian







[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 05-28-2010).]

Great styles..

I'd love to hear them finetuned for mediastation.

Ian, i can recall..not so many years ago..Uncle Dave and I as well as other players....while playing the same sounds via different key beds ...experienced the vast satisfaction between the sound and the finger connection (and mind)....No one will ever convince me that a better key feel does not make a difference in playability of a sound...

Most if not all..players with a light touch (limited dynamics) keyboard..play wide open all the time...

The semi weighted key beds...point blank offer better dynamics...maybe if you grew up playing accordion..the lightweights feel okay...but you had the bellows to express with accordion...eventually you needed to define the touch for dynamics as you moved on to keyboards...

I have listened to a lot of PSR tunes on SZ, many are good, but dynamics of the sound just aren't there....my guess is because of my above remarks..

Well Fran...I don't have to convince you, nor do I really intend to try...I only have to please me.

For me, it's all about control and how I achieve it...I can perform on a lightweight, semi-weighted, or weighted hammer action equally as well..just years and years of adapting to different actions, and getting the most out of each one.

No big deal...I'm sure you could do the same.

But, given a choice, for arranger use, I like the PSR action the best...it's not about cost, as I can easily afford a Tyros3 or even a CVP-509...it's all about what I really enjoy playing, and what gives me the best results.

I'm sure that's why you picked the instruments you use.

Ian

Agree...

Roland have NOT stopped making 76 note arrangers...

They have stopped making arrangers altogether other than low end budget arrangers. I would be VERY surprised, if Roland commence making MOTL and TOTL arrangers again, that they would drop the 76 option.

Don't read spin without using your brain... Ian is desperate to find SOME excuse to justify Yamaha ignoring legitimate customer needs. Truth is, EVERY other arranger manufacturer makes a 76. And, to be honest, so does Yamaha. But curiously, they have relegated their 76 (or 88, actually) to the piano division, and crippled them compared to a T3.

So, Ian, Yamaha actually DO believe in a big keyboard arranger... just not a GOOD one

Mmmm...so, the corollary is...they have stopped making 76 note arrangers.

Mainly because they couldn't sell them....I suppose that would be a good enough reason.

They were so popular, no one bought them. Or, maybe there's another excuse? If there is, I'm sure you'll dig one out of your little hat.

That's why Yamaha sells all the 61's it can make...they are so unpopular.

Mmmm again, ...I wonder how many Audya and Mediastation 76 note arrangers were sold?

That's why Korg is still doing the 76 note instrument...they have had no competition since Roland bit the dust.

Ian

Ian, I do not think for a second that Roland has bit the dust...I think it would surprise folks ..just how well Roland does in the market/products field they are in...

It is almost impossible finding data comparing sales between Yamaha, Korg and Roland...How much product does Roland sell? If you judge by the numbers on EBAY...Roland is king on the hill.. ..and I don't think Yamaha folks are holding onto their obsolete after 6 months gear...because they love them..

Here is a tidbit of info...Do you know that Casio outsells Yamaha keyboards (under $1000...6 to 1)..

BTW:-Yamaha has just shipped out Hogan Osawa (President)..back to Japan, and has brought in Tak Nakata to replace him (from Japan).....maybe things aren't doing as well for Yamaha as you think..

I didn't mean Roland has bit the dust altogether...just in the mid and high end arrangers...I would be very surprised if they returned to that area.

They seem to be more focused on the RD-series pianos lately (especially the RD-700GXF), and of course, the combo products like the VR-700...the "home" products tend to make the best profits...that's true in any manufacturer, so they are also more involved with the HP-series pianos (with SuperNatural upgrades) and the V-Piano, which appears to have stagnated a bit for now.

Yamaha changing presidents?

Happens quite often, and it's a normal procedure...they've had about five or six or so since I started (over 25 years ago)...they usually make the change before things ever get bad, so as to keep it fresh.

You know Fran, we clinicians are required to know as much about the competitor's products as they themselves do...and of course, the reverse is no doubt true as well.

Ian

If you couldn't find the point about my post, Ian, you are simply not looking. Roland have ceased production of 61 note MOTL and TOTL arrangers just as much as 76's. So using Roland's cessation of 76 production as an excuse for Yamaha's decision was blatantly simple spin.

What Roland's decision to make this move is anyone's guess. My take would be the overall drop in arrangers above BOTL sales numbers, and the flatness of TOTL sales overall. It simply seems that arrangers are starting to completely miss the needs of the majority of modern keyboard players, and those of us that are older, other than the fanatic few here at SZ that MUST have every new model as it comes out. We are hardly representative of arranger players in general, I am sure!

They also made some bad marketing decisions at the time of the G70, moving them from the music stores to the piano stores. If Yamaha's were ONLY available to be tried in Mom and Pop piano stores (who had no desire to carry them, nor any obligation), it's quite possible that their sales might be a lot lower, too.

Mind you, I DID notice your complete silence about the point that Yamaha DO make bigger keyboard arrangers... but not good ones. Selective responses just demonstrate I made a point you can't refute even by misrepresenting it...

Just think how fortunate we are to have had Roland , Korg and Yamaha instruments for the last 30 years or longer....They have proven to be top companies with great products thru the years....If it wasn't for them ...we may all be playing Ensoniq and Alesis keyboards...

It was more like "ignore" than silence, Diki...I would have figured you were smart enough to know the 76 note arrangers that Yamaha do make, aren't for pros...and that fact, doesn't make them "not good"...it just makes them not good for your needs.

We sell a fair amount of 76 note home piano/arrangers...the 88-note weighted action models sell far better, and both do have their dedicated following...all home users.

Roland made many mistakes marketing the the E-60, and G-70, but that wasn't the only reason they didn't sell.

In the G-70's case, it just wasn't "portable"...in the E-60's instance, it just didn't have enough features for the pro, and too many for the amateur (plus, the semi-weighted 76-note keybeds on both, weren't appealing to those whose primary instrument was piano).

Neither instrument's purpose was focused enough.

That's why Yamaha's DGX series do so well...they keep it simple, and don't spread themselves too thin.

Ian

"The overall drop in arrangers above BOTL sales numbers, and the flatness of TOTL sales overall." Would that be only concerning Roland?

I have sold more arrangers this year than last year, and last year was great...mostly S-910's and Tyros3, with a scattering of S710 this year.

As far as the home market, which is primarily, but not exclusively, the intended destination of Tyros and S-series, the products seem to have been bang on in regards to features being added/upgraded.

The S-910 is possibly the best bang for the buck out there, and even though it's MOTL, it has nearly everything the TOTL has...except the higher price tag.

One time I was concerned that Yamaha was focusing in the wrong direction, but that was a while ago, when the PSR-4500/4600 were being sold against Roland's much better designed E-series...but, Yamaha saw the writing on the wall, and took a similar path as Roland, especially with the PSR-8000.

On SZ, most of us are pros and require pro features on an arranger, and, yes, we aren't exactly typical of the average arranger buyer.

Still, products, intended mainly for home use, end up being used by pros.

Roland's take on the G-70 was that it was for pros first, and home players second, if at all...unfortunately, there aren't that many pros who use arrangers, at least not enough to make an exclusively "pro" instrument viable.

The E-series was a home product, yet many pros used them...they sold a pile of them...I bought several models...what didn't sell to pros, was sold to home users.

Maybe that's where Roland went off the rails...why not focus first on a home instrument, but one that can also be used by pros?

Makes sense. The Tyros/PSR have been doing it quite successfully the past several years, or more.

Ian

Well, Ian, for starters, Yamaha don't make arrangers for pros AT ALL (according to you!), so what is left..? Yes, that's right. Comparison between model lines. And the Yamaha big keyboard arrangers compare quite poorly compared to the Tyros line, and, to be honest, with the PSR line too (at the top end). The only difference is the number of keys (and weight!), but the same end user is who they are designed for (according to you, again). So, I feel I'm pretty much on point in saying that Yamaha DO make big keyboard arrangers, just not good ones. If ALL arrangers are designed for the home, but only the big keyboard Yamaha's suck (comparatively), then that's basically that... Bringing up 'pro' excuses simply does not hold water.

The G70 weighed only four or five pounds more than the G1000, a VERY successful arranger. For all the whining here, hardly a determining factor in its' sales failure. Anyway, as all arrangers are 'home' arrangers, and none of them are designed for pros (who are the only players that regularly need to move their keyboards around much), what does weight have to do with it? The CVP's certainly outweigh the G70 drastically, and it doesn't stop them selling.

But, as hard as high end arrangers are starting to be to find in ANY music store (think of how widely they were distributed 15 years ago), you can hardly claim that overall sales are increasing. If they were popular, a LOT of stores would carry them, and that is just not the case. You work at a store that specializes in them, and have a somewhat colored viewpoint, I fear...

I am sure you would proudly point out that the S910 has FAR more features than an E60... there goes that ill-thought out argument.

Trouble is, if you take your own thoughts seriously (I have my doubts about that!), ALL arrangers from all manufacturers (as I'm sure you would never concede any advantage to any other brand) are made for home users. Therefore, you can compare them ALL directly. And, in that case, the 76 and 88 note home arrangers from Yamaha suck compared to the 76 and 88 note home arrangers from all the other brands..! And they suck compared to the 61 note arrangers made by their own company!

Yamaha don't have it in for pros... they simply have it in for home players of bigger keyboards.

Ha ha...five pounds sure made a lot of difference, didn't it?

One very successful...the other, not so.

Let's hope their next TOTL weighs 5 lbs less again.

Ian

The truth is, G1000 sold in MI stores (lots of them) and the G70 sold in CK stores (hardly any of them)... You don't really need to look any further than that enormous blunder to see why the G70 failed.

One of the main comments at the start of the G70's launch was 'where can I see one?'. Imagine that happening to T3, PA2Xpro, any major arranger... you are likely to see the same failure of sales.

Add to that the unfinished nature of the OS and style voicing, which was remedied by OS2, but the damage had been done. I can't think of a single person that was happy enough with the G1000's weight that found the G70's slight weight increase the deciding factor in not getting one. Cost played a large part in it (G70 was a BIG step up in price), and unavailability, IMO.

How much does a CVP weigh?

Well, a CVP is sold as a home instrument...weight is not a factor.

The biggest complaint I've heard about the G-70, both here on SZ, and elsewhere, is it's weight...it's too heavy, especially in a road case, for the typical one man band person to lug from gig to gig...particularly those doing several shows a day.

Yes, being sold in the wrong stores didn't help either, but here in Canada, it was sold alongside other arrangers, and it still didn't sell very well.

I also don't feel it was supported very well...I didn't see one G-70, or any Roland arranger clinic for that matter, in all the years they were available...I saw lots of RD-series demos, and Juno synth clinics, but no arranger support whatsoever.

Ian

I can hardly believe my eyes... aren't you the guy that claims ALL arrangers are sold as 'home instruments'? You can't have it BOTH ways Either there IS something to a 'pro' factor, or there isn't. If there is, why don't Yamaha address it?

What happened? They put green kryptonite in your Wheaties up there? After the G1000 was a grand success, a few tiny extra pounds, and suddenly, you are all turned into weaklings?!

Thing is, most of the complaining about the G70's weight came from the PSR contingent anyway, or 61 key users. I don't recall anyone who WAS a G1000 fan suddenly turn into a lightweight keyboard fan. As I have pointed out, there are FAR better reasons for how poorly it sold than weight. Those that were hooked on lightweight arrangers weren't using the G1000 anyway. Didn't stop it from being a success...

I still believe that, if Yamaha's were marketed as poorly as the G70 was, you would be looking for other work right now. Perhaps demo-ing Korg's, and deriding anyone that made fun of their weight..!

No doubt they would fail like the G-70/E-80 if they were poorly marketed, but, they weren't and they aren't, and I'm very glad to have been personally involved in the designing and setting up of arranger clinics, and how they are handled...it's kept me busy and happily employed for quite some time.

The more exposure and support given, the more arrangers I sell, and the more work I get doing follow-ups...and the cycle begins again.

Such a simple thing, but apparently, it escaped Roland entirely...perhaps they didn't want to invest in promotion and follow-up...strange, because at one time they did, and I used to do clinics for Roland back when they sold the early E-series.

A large 45 pound arranger (more in a road case) certainly isn't popular with more than one SZ solo arranger performer...I think it is more of a "wisdom" than a "weakling" thing...why drag around an over 50 lb coffin-sized instrument, when there are much lighter, and equally as capable alternatives.

You yourself promoted the G-70 to several SZ people, most of who eventually, sold them (in spite of loving them) to get lighter instruments....so, yes, I'd say the heavy weight played a key factor in it's demise, as well as the poor promotion/marketing/product placement....if it didn't, it certainly helped.

Ian

I think you can have it both ways. The T3 and the S910 are marketed primarily towards home users, but are gig ready.