First off, my apologies to Frank for stealing his photo of the Liontracs GROOVE. I didn't want to hijack another thread to start this discussion.

I don't mean this to in any way disparage the looks of the GROOVE but when I look at it, I can't help but wonder how I (personally) would feel performing in public with such an uh....aggressive??? look. Let me make it clear that this thread has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the keyboards capabilities; just the impression it might make on an audience. Of course, it depends on the audience. I don't think it would cause so much as an eye blink in a Hip-Hop club, or even a rock concert. But what about on a restaurant gig, or a country club, or a high-end jazz club? Would all the lights and buttons and knobs and sliders, and wheels, and dials, and split screens, combined with a fire engine red paint job, scream out that this is some kind of hi-tech, computerized, MACHINE; not a musical instrument. I fully realize that some modern (and not so modern) organs could send the same message, but they at least have the advantage of up to three manuals, foot pedals, and (usually) a wooden console, so that it at least gives the appearance of something that you actually PLAY as opposed to OPERATE.

Please treat this as a question, a starting point for a discussion, not a bashing post. Another consideration with this configuration is that, as much as it makes gadget freaks drool at the mouth, could it be somewhat intimidating for some that are more oriented towards making music than exploring the outer limits of technology.

Would I want one? You bet your bippy, but I'm pretty sure it would be confined to the studio and never make it out to a gig (however, this (the studio) could very well be what it was designed for). I'd like to hear your thoughts (but not angry defenses of it's looks, that's not the point).

chas

PS: I'd also love to hear from a dealer (Frank?) what customers first response is to it (or does it even come up?).

Well, I'm a big Nord fan, so red isn't a turn-off, but yes, the graphics COULD be subtler...

Thing is, has anyone looked at what people actually USE that really DO groove-box gigs? Little 37 note keyboards, 48 note-ers, even 25 notes! But what most of them use, especially the all important MPC crowd... a selection of PADS, to beat on, trigger loops with, etc..

I'm just not sure that, once again, Dom has his finger on the pulse of what REAL users actually want... He tried to sell arranger users on an arranger that you needed to style and voice all by yourself, with a sky-high learning curve (the exact opposite of what most arranger users want), and now he has a groove product that flies against conventional usage. I hope it succeeds, it's a cool product, but once again, just not sure who he's aiming at.

Main thing about looks (back On Topic) for me would be, I've seen pictures of these in the dark, and yes, it looks like the bridge of the Enterprise! Is there any way to dim or brighten the LED's? That's a LOT of lighting on your underside of your face, which is maybe cool for Halloween scary monster songs, but a bit over the top for less frightening occasions!

In the end, I guess I'm not THAT concerned about looks in the showroom, but how something holds up after five or ten years of gigging... I've had keyboards that looked showroom after nearly ten years of heavy use (G1000 was amazing!), and others that the silkscreen panel graphics were flaking and rubbing off after just a year or so (thanks a lot, Ensoniq SQ2! ), or showing dirt and grime too easily (most of those silverized keyboards, including the surround to my G70's touchscreen, suffer from this). Longevity of looks is something that really matters, especially in a keyboard that, apparently, will NEVER be obsolete!

Be they good or bad looks..!

Hey heres something new....

A tag team bash on the MS well done boyz! sorry nobody is falling for it anymore.

BTW I love the new GROOVE graphics RED or Black model....the lights look great and very hip on stage to me of what I've seen so far.

OMG! Seems no matter how you pose a question, some people (most notably Donny) will find a way to send it southbound. I ask anyone if my initial post was a legitimate question or a veiled attempt to bash the GROOVE. If everyone thinks it was a subtle bash job, then I apologize. I certainly didn't intend it that way.

BTW Donny. Dom is NOT going to give you the same deal that he gave to James, no matter how much you suck up . The difference is, James may actually do somethin POSITIVE for his sales numbers. Man, you need to chill out, you're fulfilling everybody's prophesy. Forget to take your meds again?

chas

I think the Groove, in red, is as ugly as an inside out monkey.

Looked way better in black, in my opinion.

Ian

See... Ian you are the second biggest hypocrite on this forum

You just posted a scathing indictment of a mild ribbing I posted about a Yamaha upgrade, and you turn around and do EXACTLY the same thing to the MS/Groovebox. Where's all the respect for the open keyboard users you criticized ME for not having?! I suppose you think that, as long as it's YOU criticizing the MS, that makes it OK?

You guys have got to learn... if you dish it out, you have got to be able to take it. And learn that your own transgressions basically negate your ability to criticize others (who are only doing the same thing).

Could be Diki, but you certainly are the biggest...nice title to have, eh? Knowing you, you're probably quite proud of it.


I may have questioned the MS and Audya, but I sure didn't badger the daylights out of them like you did.

You don't know when to quit sometimes...I appreciate your tenacity, but at some point, it just becomes overbearing, as noted by several other members on SZ...unfortunately, you really don't know when it does...too busy trying to be right, I suppose.

Ian

Well Chas, I see this post is doing great...

Chas , when I do use the MediaStation on a gig...the people comment on the looks..."all the lights and controls"...in a positive way....It looks expensive to them, and they seem to agree it sounds great too...

The performers I have been associated with over say the last 25 years...have always liked "lots of lights" on stage..Maybe rack mount gear, amps, and especially keyboards...I don't ever look at it as a negative...

It seems to impress folks and not the other way around....

Another plus for instruments like the MS or Groove models...you can navigate in pitch dark..

I like the look of my former E80 on stage as well as my current G70 and MS....The Prelude....just looks bland on stage..

Good thing ..I look good on stage too..

Chas don't assume it's not becoming of you...sorry. And why the surprise?...you knew what you were doing.I agree with Fran's post great look on the two new groove units. I personally this its a bit difficult to learn all this stuff on the MS units right now. i'll be the first to admit I'm not the smartest when it comes to all this computer stuff...instead I'd rather just keep it simple on stage and sounding great day after day, night after night with the gear I enjoy playing.



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 05-29-2010).]

I made RED because Korg gave me the idea..

There is also available in white.. One model, 5 colors.
Do you prefer the Groove in Yellow?

Nice Dom.....and 61 keys also Yeah!!

Holy hell, does every single topic has to turn into THIS?...ahahahahaha...FUN!

I would love a yellow keyboard..reminds me of the old Farfisa G7..yellow model..

Dom, maybe you should design an overlay film in different colors..for the MS...than we can have a different look each night..

I'm rather conservative when it comes to how keyboards look.

I can barely deal with the silver colors being used so much today, and, if given my druthers, I'd like to see the return to darker colors (grey or black), or even a decent looking, not Mac-Tac, walnut wood grain.

The red Nord instruments turn me off, and I'd wonder how many jazz organists, other than yourself, would be more likely to buy a C1/2 if it was in polished black or wood?

I never minded any marks or bruises on my Hammond...it gave it a "well-used" look, in my opinion, and each scar had a story, much like people.

The red Groove just doesn't appeal to me at all...the black one is a little better looking, in my opinion, but I still think it is, in your words, too "aggressive"...the graphics and brightly colored switches aren't what I want to see facing me every night.

It makes me want to say, "The Groove is trying too hard to be cool."

Ian

I love the red color. We have Nord to thank for that. Actually the more lights the better for me. It really does make you feel like you are getting your money's worth.

I'm very much thinking about purchasing one myself. The open synth, it's a great concept. I've been a fan of Linux/Ubuntu for quite awhile now.

then you totally forgot my e-mail from several years ago. I asked if it is possible to have black or red color for MS.you told is not time because you had many silver case.

but it does not matter. it was good idea and good decision.

Now think about this color because it will be very great:
Chrome steel





[This message has been edited by AFG Music (edited 05-29-2010).]

yes yes especially outside in the sun

use your Sunglasses

Once again, too much agonizing about my tone, and virtually zero discussion about the actual POINTS I make...

C'mon, guys! Look around at the groovebox community, and the tools they tend to use, nowadays. If this is a groovebox, where are the pads? A different color and some different graphics slathered over the same old we've seen in a different coat before does NOT turn this magically into a groovebox. Look at the controllers made for Ableton Live, look at the Electribe's and their successors. They aren't 76 note keyboards.

Maybe I only SEEM relentless about Lionstracs because I'm the only one actually NOTICING this stuff?

BTW, anyone actually got an answer to my question about the LED brightness, or would you rather ignore all this and just make comments about the tone again?

This is starting to turn from an arranger forum into a 'suck up to Lionstracs or get flamed' forum...

the LEDS have light and soft colors. they will get soft color by silicone keys.

if you do not believe ask James and Dennis too.

and stay calm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!if you ever can do it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[This message has been edited by AFG Music (edited 05-29-2010).]

The Pad buttons are the 8 left lower corner section..and there are 256 pages of 8 available...

Those are buttons, not pads, Fran. Look at a Fantom, look at an M3, look at an MPC... THOSE are pads.

Diki we aren't sucking up to Dom...we could say we didn't like Dom's Corvette or woman...but why would we do that?..They are both "smoking hot"...

Your finger as only so big..they are big enough for finger contact..

you can always use this:



more question????????????

Maybe ..the idea of the Groove is..just in case the "artist" can actually play something besides hitting pads...as it Key bed...

Hey, I'm not saying what you should or shouldn't use. I am just pointing out what REAL groovebox users actually DO.

Tell you one thing. Try drumming out a groove on ONE of those buttons. Tough, ain't it?! That's why there ARE pads on many grooveboxes and WS's. If their users WANTED to use tiny buttons, keys or add-on extras, that's the way they would make them.

I would just use the keybed..the way any pro would..

Speaking of PRO..I better get out of here..I have to fight holiday traffic heading to the Jersey Shore..

My fans await..

Yeah, with Diki, Donny, and Ian being the 'first responders', I mean, what could go wrong, there? . Southbound, anyone?

Anyway, thanks for being the first to actually address the question that was asked. And for gawd's sake, get Donny a waffle fix or something; I think his blood sugar might be low .

chas

Alright now, Mr. Innocent...you've done your fair share of nudging (I'm being kind) a thread in a Southerly direction...and, you play jazz on a RED plastic organ...you're just lucky that we occasionally step in and make the threads...er...interesting.

Ian

It appears orange on my computer, which is even worse. The blue marvel is still the best color Happy Memorial Day everyone.

Who, ME?

chas

On this here i have to agree with DIKI...GrooveBox and No Pads its kinda i dont know.
I dont mind the color actually i like it but the machine itself has nothing on it to actually
be a GrooveBox...thats why Lee sees it more of a DJ Machine even though is not.
He probably heard the name GrooveBox and nowadays when someone mentions
GrooveBox the first thing that comes to mind is DJ's and Pads for controlles which none
can be found or seen the this machine. Color to me personally dont make any difference
but controlls on top actually do...i love lights since i am a Trekkie and wont mind if i was
sitting on the Enterprise Commanding Bridge...i would love it.

The Nord C1 isn't red plastic..it is a metal alloy..

The quote " I am not getting at you - but !" usually means you are, well here it does, so let battle begin, wonder why Frank ordered a RED one for his demo??? I

Yes, you're probably right Fran...it does appear to be plastic, and even when I played one, I wasn't aware that it was anything but plastic.

It's still red, which in my opinion, should be reserved for single manual combo organs, and automobile taillights.

Somehow, a double manual organ should be in a wooden style cabinet, as in Hammond XK3c/XK1a...or at the very least, a dark grey or polished black.

I can say one thing...I'm tired of all these silver colored arrangers.


Ian

Ian

[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 05-30-2010).]

I think the end caps on the C1 are painted wood but I can't tell for sure withough sticking a knife in it. It looks like wood.

chas

I rely heavily on looks for a keyboard,that is a big reason i can't move on from my old rustic 9000..can't stand the silver finish or plastic buttons on any tyros's.
Keyboards an dark colors need only apply, fancy colors scream of operators expeirencing somekind of careless infancy.


But that said..that blood red Groove KB thing above would give me migrianes after an hour or two..may even invoke an eleptic(sp)seizure.

95% of Arrangers are sold to the Home market and are usually setup in the lounge; therefore looks are of paramount importance. (If you have a female partner then this becomes even more critical)

If you have your own studio or room in which to place them, then ease of operation and sound take precedent.

Bill

Sorry, Bill, but basically, ALL arrangers are equally ugly as furniture until you get to the piano lookalikes... OK, maybe in this one's case there's an extra degree of ugly, but it's simply a matter of degree.

Let's face it, as crippled as most 'furniture' arrangers are compared to their portable cousins, it's obvious that the missus gets to wear the pants in houses that have those in them!

BTW, Nedim, thanks for actually getting my point...

Mind you, on a forum of mainly elderly arranger players, I'm pretty sure hardly anyone actually uses a groovebox, and it's pretty obvious few realize what that particular form of playing really needs (or at least what the majority of practitioners of the form actually use) even though a simple scan through the groovebox section in any catalog might show them...

It takes more than silk-screening a word onto a keyboard to actually make it into what is being printed... Just as putting the word "Workstation" onto an arranger doesn't make it into one (at least, not in the contemporary sense of the word), putting the words 'Arranger' or 'Groovebox' onto the MS doesn't magically turn it into one.

Are looks important? Evidently so. Last year, when two young ladies were paying their bill at the restaurant I was working, one said" You know, if you don't look up, he (me) sounds way younger and better looking than he is" (LOL)!


Russ (I need a face lift) Lay

Of course Diki that definitly includes you also.

Absolutely, Donny... but, OTOH, I use an MPC at the studio, work with hiphop and rap artists occasionally, and play a lot of contemporary music. Plus, I keep up with what is happening technologically. Aging is more a product of what you DO than how old you are...

Play doo-wop to bluehairs, and soon enough you are one of them! Stay young, my friend...