Diki is right. Just because Yamaha is huge doesn't make them right. Any more than Sony
holding on to the Betamax, licensing only the inferior vhs format, and then getting blown out of the water with lower-priced vhs taking over the market and killing the better system.
Or giant RCA with its videodisc player--if they gave those away or even sold them at cost, they had the market cornered because they would have sold zillions of movie discs. But they let vhs players undercut them and everyone bought those because they thought they would be taping stuff (although it turned out very small% actually did tape shows after the initial novelty of it)
It actually almost put RCA out of business, the losses were so huge. But they stubbornly kept the price of the videodisc player higher than the vhs player.
So Yamaha is just as dumb as Sony and RCA were when it comes to stubbornly refusing to make MOTL and TOTL 76-ers. The only difference is the market is so much smaller than for the rca/sony products, it really can't hurt them that bad being dumb.

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Miami Mo

[This message has been edited by keysvocalssax (edited 06-01-2010).]

Mo...you and Diki need to apply for the same job with these companies...they just might be looking for armchair marketing experts.

Why do these companies offer 61, 76, and weighted 88 options in their workstation models now, if "there's no demand for a 76".
If Roland had 61-key version alongside the 76-key version of the G70, at a small discount,
do you think an overwhelming % of arranger players would choose the 61? Did sales of the 61-key E50 blow sales of the 76-key E60 out of the water? It's not good logic to say that if a 76-key keyboard is not a big seller, that's due to the fact it's a 76. Not unless you have a 61-key version of the same unit at a rational discount to the 76
(not a tremendous price stepdown like E50) and the sales of the 61 are great and the 76 sales suck. That's the only true test.

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Miami Mo

Ian, you are reminding me of some sports blogs i'm on. some bloggers make excellent points about how GM's or coaches could have done this or that...and others rejoin with " what are your qualifications vs. Pat Riley?" sorry, if you want to argue on the basis of real arguments, i'm all ears--if you want to say who are we to question the big boys: i give you Sony, RCA....and...George Bush.

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Miami Mo

Do you really think the workstation market and arranger market are the same?

Thing is, if Yamaha's research indicated a 76 note arranger would be profitable, don't you think they'd be making it?

They like making money for their shareholders like everyone else.

It would be interesting to get real hard figures on how many PA2XPro arrangers Korg sells, against the 5 octave PA-800.

Ian

The two new models:
Piaggero NP-V60 and NP-V80 are both 76 lightweighted 76 key ditial pianos (like the NP-30) that also feature built in styles like what you will find on the DGX235. The difference will be these keybaords are smaller, a bit lighter and the V80 will also feature a USB thumb drive port for playing and saving midifiles (the V60 does not).
The speaker system is also upgraded on the V80.
There is also an arppegiator on the 80.
The retail price will be $499.00 for the 60 and $599.00 for the 80.
Having only 32 note polyphony is not very bright! Not any more at least. There should be at least 64 if not 128.
I saw these products at the Winter NAMM show but the batteries were dead and couldn't here anything. I was hoping to see one of these with the sounds and features of the 910 but not so.


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George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California
818-881-5566
www.kayesmusicscene.com

Ian, Sony's research showed they shouldn't license the Betamax, keep it for themselves,
and they would make a lot more money than the companies who licensed the vhs from them.
Likewise RCA research showed them the public would buy tons of their players. And Ford did a lot of research before launching..THE EDSEL.
how many more examples do you need?
your arguments are specious. All such "who are you to question them" arguments are specious, and I won't accept them. find another way to make your point, please...


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Miami Mo

You'll have to be content with what I've already posted, Mo...I'm no expert, and I only can pass on what I've learned from working with the company for over 25 years.

They've made mistakes, and, they've learned from them...and, they've no doubt, learned from watching others like Sony and Ford etc.

Their reasons for not going with a 76 note arranger may involve more than just researching their own markets...it may involve studying how others are doing in the marketplace. I'm sure they have a steady eye on Korg and it's PA2XPro, and no doubt, they've also had a look at Roland's departure from the 76-note arranger field.

I may be wrong, but I highly doubt if there will be a 76 note high, or mid range arranger in the near future...if there is, it is my guess that it will be introduced in the S-series, and not the Tyros.

But, that's just a guess.

Ian

I believe Roland sold every G70 and E80 they manufactured....I would love to see the numbers of units that Yamaha, Roland and Korg actually sold....I think there would be a lot of folks surprised by the results...without the hype..

It reminds me of the stories of old....Yamaha DX7 breaking all records of sales....then Roland's D-50 doing the same, and reported sales of Korg's M1 topping both Yamaha and Roland's best selling models of the day..

One thing people seem to confuse with the 76 key keyboard market is whether the “reason” for not making a 76 key keyboard is the number of keys or the weight.


If the G70 did not do well in sales, was it because it had 76 keys?
If the MS does not do well in sales, is it because it has 76 keys?
If the Audya does not do well in sales, is it because it has 76 keys.
If the PSR S910 does well in sales, is it because it only has 61 keys?


It would be interesting to see what if any difference in sales did the Roland E 50 (61 keys) and the E 60 (76 keys) have.


And when Korg made the PA1x and PA 1x pro keyboards, where both of them were heavy, which one had the most sales.