it's analogous to sex:
every guy would like to have a bigger unit,
but only if you have a very small unit (analagous to a bad-sounding rig) does it make a big difference to the woman (audience)

all sizes up to "scary" will do,(rigs that sound decent) and all the other stuff (technique, personality, feeling,etc) is of much more consequence. any woman will tell you that(any audience will tell you that)

And some are so great at sex, even a tiny unit, while it has drawbacks, goes a long way
(Enrico Caruso, Louis Armstrong on primitive recording equipment)

We're like the guys who are "pumping up" to get it bigger. (It gives us more confidence to have a bigger better rig) It is an advantage to have a bigger one-up to "scary"-
but the advantage is way overblown (pun unintended)..it's not worth all the time we spend at it..our time would be better served at improving our music.

now having said that, i think i'll go on ebay and see what's out there....(I'm a guy and just can't help it!) they should have a tune like My Fair Lady's "Why Can't a Woman be more Like a Man" in reverse...we need to think more like gals in regard to our rigs..




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Miami Mo

My old MS-60's have internal stereo speakers and amplifiers, which adds a lot of weight. So does the SD-5. When I bought the MS-60's, there was a non amplified option (MS-50, I think), which would have worked fine for me and been a lot lighter.

The SD-5 does not have the non speaker option. That would probably cut 15-20 pounds off the weight, which would be nice. Most of my jobs are set by my crew, so it really isn't a big deal for me.


R.


Russ

If I had a crew, you BET I'd still be using a B3, Rhodes, real piano etc.!

But what we are talking about is the difference in weight between arrangers, no more than twenty pounds TOPS. S910 about 27 lbs., G70 45 lbs.. Unless infirmity is the reason, we are talking about decisions that have fairly big consequences (S910 is a great arranger, but the T3 sounds considerably better) for the saving of a mere 20 lbs...

It's obvious that that decision is a lot more practical when you are comparing a 28 lbs. arranger with over a thousand pounds of vintage gear but most of us COULD lug around a few more pounds of weight if we considered that the improvement was worth it. What surprises me is the admission that the improvement ISN'T worth it for some of us, to be honest!

Venues play a BIG part in the weight gear factor for players....

Setting Up & Breaking Down 2 or 3 times a day for some can become cumbersome with big heavy gear & tight time
restraints...hundreds of 4 hour gigs a year also not so much....house jobs no problems when you can leave whatever at the gig..... weight and size does matter.

now it's a "mere" 20 lbs? I thought it was bad enough when your "mere"was even less! Diki,
you have a severe blind spot on this subject,
and you stubbornly hold to it. good for you, but the rest of us find lugging a lot of weight a very big factor,, especially when we are not talking HUGE differences in how our performances will come across with lighte equip

Well, the truth is, no matter what YOU think is 'acceptable' in arranger sound, it is also true that you COULD gig with something cheaper, lighter and poorer sounding and get away with it...

But you have made your decision as to WHERE that cost/weight/sound balancing act is optimal. And are quite likely to feel defensive against someone with a cheaper/lighter arranger telling YOU that you don't NEED that heavy arranger (heavy by HIS standards, anyway!). You would be able to gig just as well without it!

You see, it's all a matter of DEGREE...

When is TOO light, too light, when is too heavy, too heavy? For me, it is strictly about the sound, and the size of the keybed. Could I go lighter and still gig? Sure I could.

But so could YOU...!

Haven't we all?

I feel very fortunate to have a keyboard that weighs less than 25 lbs, but sounds as good or better than arrangers weighing over twice as much.

So, I'm not giving up anything, except the inconvenience of using a large, awkward, and heavy instrument.

I think I can make that sacrifice.


Ian

Mo, I am not trying to convince anyone to use the top heavy gear, but to show a perspective that maybe we aren't looking at....

As a comparison I will use the two boards that I owned at the same time period...The E-60 and the G70..

The difference in weight is just under 18 pounds....not a big difference...and when you compare what you (I) gave up....it turns out to be a No Brain er...

Not only is the G70 a better sound bank of sounds (maybe a lot is due to better converters), but the samples are superior..
If you owned just the E-60..you would not notice or be aware how much better the G70 does sound..

Secondly, the E-60 has a nice key bed, but not the great key bed the G70 does...and it has after touch..

3rd....the extra 2 real time parts the G70 gives over the E-60.

4th...A vocal harmonizer that many agree is the best on any keyboard..

5th...the EQ and balance of mic and instruments with in the G70..can eliminate a mixer..

The separate outs and other routing's available on the G70...


These are just quick comparisons of two keyboards that I like..and 18 pounds difference doesn't come into play for me..with all the options I would not have...just to save 18 pounds...

Now what if you grab an out board , Harmonizer, and a mixer, etc..there is the added weight that brings it to the same....and you still are playing the inferior unit..

Imagine if I made these comparisons to boards I dislike..

At least the E-60 plays better than the PSR and non Pro PA series key beds...(the key beds that I totally do not want to play...bad enough with the Prelude.. )..

why can't everyone make their own decision on "weight" without the "arranger police" telling them they are making a huge sacrifice for a "mere" 18-20 lbs. That's a lotta weight to me, nothing mere about it. I have enough to handle with the 28-lb E60 and I don't even use a case..if i did i wouldn't be able to deal with it. I'm 6'4" and 216 lbs and in decent shape for someone 71..2 years ago i had a Genesys w/case, took it to one gig and hurt my back putting it on/off the stand and in/out of suv..and don't you dare try to tell me i need to use a better technique..that's not the problem..it's the weight. All those extra features on the G70 would be nice, but they are not essential to me. It sounds better and has a better keybed? how much better? My e60 sounds pretty good. If I play great, it absolutely does not matter if the sound is "better".
I have talked about this until i'm blue in the face and you guys still want to strut around lording your "better" sound because you play g70's. It's a marginal utility. After a certain point, better sound does not do a lot for you over good sound. We're not talking lousy v. great. Why do you think after all your yammering and hammering, we still want lighter keyboards? Because we're deluded? and your arguments will win the day if you keep insisting on them?. i think your saying that 18-20 lbs means little is the delusion, not vice-versa.

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Miami Mo

Nowadays we're talking great vs a tad greater...today's MOTL arranger keyboards are terrific sounding instruments.

It's not just the 20 lb difference...when the instrument is also big and bulky, it can feel like a lot more.

I could probably use a Tyros3 in a soft case, which would weigh about 35 lbs max, if I want something even better than my S910, but the latter is such a great sounding instrument on it's own merits, and works so well for my type of gigs, I really don't need to use the former.

Plus, when I get home after a gig, I just whip it on the stand, plug in the extra adaptor and pedal, and I'm good to go, because it has great sounding on-board speakers.

I'm certainly not going to try and convince the die-hard G-70 users, or anyone else that plays a heavy keyboard, to go with something lighter...I'd be wasting my time, just as much as they'd be wasting theirs trying to convince me to use something big and heavy that I'd find a nuisance to gig with...and that would sound and perform no better, in my opinion, than my S910.

Ian