Tom, sorry to dominate the space here, but, with your saxophone and keyboard background, you could develop an understanding of the basic power (sliding) chords in a surprisingly short time. An "F" played on the 4th fret is an Ab. Lift your middle finger and you have an Ab minor. That works all the way up the neck as far as you can reach. There are other rules, of course, for playing 9ths, 11ths, major sevenths...a different set of rules for playing lots of chords based on the "C" format
(cover the open string in a "C" chord with your little finger to make a "C7th". Now, move it to the 4th fret for an Ab 7th).

Think the alphabet and rules similar to the ones you use in algebra. Think not rote memory learning, but logical rules to determine the fret used and the rules to make the version of the chord you want. Plus, when you use power chords, you can control sustain and generally "comp" cool variations of the lead line in that general geographic position.

If you're interested, call or write. I'll be
glad to show you what little I know.

After all, sharing is a big part of what being a musician is all about. And I'm sure there's lots I can learn from you.


Be well,


Russ

Rory, If you're hip enough to play Sentimental Mood, you don't need no "STINKIN TRANSPOSE BUTTON".

You don't, for sure!


Russ (wish you were in Nashville this NAMM) Lay

There are certain guitar styles involving open strings that would be simply impossible to transpose without using a capo. They probably aren't used in jazz but in other musical styles they certainly are. I can think of a few songs that use droning open strings while fretting quite high up the guitar neck. These are impossible to play transposed without a capo regardless of technical ability. One song that comes to mind is Starship Trooper by Yes. You use whatever you need to use to accomplish the sound you need to create.

I think the 'open note' syndrome for guitarists is part of why transposers are legitimate at times even for keyboards. We all know how certain licks and runs fall easily under the fingers, and sound a certain way, but it take prodigious chops to play those exact same licks and runs IDENTICALLY in keys that make you finger them completely differently.

I can pretty much guarantee that if Corea or Hancock played one of their barn-burners in a 1/2 tone higher or lower than it's usual key, you would NOT hear exactly the same licks and chops. But if those licks and chops ARE part of the signature sound of a particular song, and the singer, or horn player, etc. wants to do them in a different key, what are you to do? Ruin the song by trying to be 'purist', or let the show go on by using your transpose?

What is getting confused here, I think, is the difference between being facile in all keys (which you need to be... even if you can only play in C, a bridge that modulates all over the place is going to force you to play those keys anyway) and able to transpose charts by sight and be indistinguishable from not transposing at all. This latter one is a rare commodity. While it's true you'll seldom see a jazz guitarist using a capo, you'll also seldom see a jazz pianist play a standard, particularly a challenging, much modulating one, in a half step away from the book key (or aug4, or any of those keys that REALLY change your hand position) and be as comfortable. The nature of the guitar means that, as long as the aren't using open strings, transposing for them means doing EXACTLY the same thing a fret or two higher or lower.

Essentially, doing little more than a keyboardist hitting the transpose button. I somehow doubt that, if it were so utterly different going from one key to another on the guitar as it is for piano, you would see so many jazz guitarists eschewing the capo! They certainly don't seem to mind it once open notes come into play... So much for 'purism'!

In a situation where you are likely to get thrown the same song on multiple nights in different keys (I'm in a band where they like to do Ipanema in F AND in D on the same night, depending on whether the sax player or singer is doing it... heck, sometimes he does BOTH at the same time and you have to modulate ), or a singer's voice is off and wants it down a half or whole step, when you are sight reading charts and the singer needs a different key, sure, I don't mind admitting I'll use a transposer.

But bottom line is, should I be stuck on a piano or organ without the transposer, I can still get by. I won't sound as good, and I might clam from time to time, but I can do it.

And, less the purists think the transposer evil incarnate, let us not forget that it provides the perfect opportunity to practice other keys for familiar tunes on the gig WITHOUT messing with the singer..! Just play them in a weird key, and transpose it to the right one!

Any sword cuts both ways...

As far as adjusting for singers goes, key-wise, again, if your function is simply back-up, sure, you learn the song in his/her key. But, if you're talking about an established group, particularly, a jazz group, in my world, the singer either sings in stock keys, or you get another singer. I am not going to adjust all arrangements to compensate for the requirements of a vocalist, unless that vocalist was the headliner. To do that, you would have a problem every time you had to replace ANY player. The new person would have to re-learn all tunes in keys other than stock. \That is a time-taker and not the way business as I know it is done.

Now, getting back to the Chas' previous reference to Diana Krall and Alicia....ANY KEY IS FINE!

Russ (still look, but no longer touch) Lay

Even Paul McCartney uses a Capo singing Michelle to the First lady last night!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ni-0eXQ-rs

Good example, Donny, although Paul isn't as good a musician as he is a writer. If he were playing electric, he might have chosen power chords. A better player absolutely would have, on electric. Tommy Emannuel would have used a capo, too, so style, the tune, vocal range and instrument determine the proper combo.


Russ

I love the accordion player in that song also gives it that French feel...good stuff!

Rory I see the problem we're having understanding each other. I never use the transposer mid-tune, I just use it for the whole tune, so as i said it's no different than just playing all tunes as if they were in C. I don't have any problem with the bridges on most tunes, and if they are the tunes with difficult bridge changes for me,
I just play very sparely for those sections
and use mostly right hand runs rather than try to fill out the chord. I'm far from a "complete" keyboardist but I can compensate in other ways. Without a transposer I'd be limited to single-note right hand (pretty good) and lh bass lines (not so great)I'm strictly a product of the modern era on keys. Without semi-weighted keys, dedicated transposers, kbds that have nice vibes (my best work) organs, ep's, i'd never have pursued playing keys professionally.



------------------
Miami Mo

When I went to California in the early 60's, most of the Surf bands had lead and rhythm guitar, bass and tenor, with, sometimes an organ (usually, and old Vox or M-100).

Often because of skill limitations and the need to have a repetitive, strong open E or A note, bands would tune down 1/2 step. Eb (1'st string) or Ab (2nd string) were more comfortable keys for the horn, and the deeper "triple-picked" bass notes recorded better (think "Pipeline"). The keyboard player just had to learn six chords...three each in Eb and Ab (HA)!


Russ (Three chord) Lay