Good point Chas...and thanks for siding with me...I always knew you could recognize a winner.

Steve Deming has told some people it is because the demand for 76'ers is too small for Yamaha to enter that marketing segment, pertaining to mid and top line arrangers.

He didn't say there was no demand...he just said there was not enough demand.

Now, why would a company make a product there is not much demand for...especially if that tiny niche is already filled with products by Korg, and to a lesser extent, by Ketron and Mediastation?

If this segment were so lucrative, why didn't Roland make a 76'er to replace both G-70 and E-60? They already have the components, and according to G-70 owners, it's technology is still competitive, and since some people also believe that the cost of making a new case/cabinet is negligible, there's no reason why they didn't make one....unless the market is too small to warrant it.

If there was a viable market, do you honestly think a big company like Yamaha wouldn't want to be in on it?

Methinks that Steve is right, and my own experience in the field bears this out...I have a good idea what is selling and what is wanted; I deal with many arranger players on a day to day basis, and I am a member of several public and private Yamaha forums.

This controversy wages on and on because some people aren't satisfied with Yamaha's stated reasons.

Is it any wonder it hasn't concluded?

Ian

Once again, Ian flogs the dead horse of negative Roland comparison, in the vain attempt to cloud the issue and get a rise out of me. As I have said before (and been completely ignored) if Roland's 61's were still viable but their 76's took a beating, you'd have a point. BUT YOU DON'T. Roland have stopped production on ALL arrangers with the exception of the BOTL. Korg haven't stopped production (despite YEARS of you predicting the same thing, Ian - this discussion goes back a LONG time), Ketron haven't stopped production, even Yamaha haven't stopped production They make DGX's and NP-V80's...

76 note arrangers. Plain and simple.

(If you think that the NP-30's action feels ANYTHING like a piano at all, Donny, you really should try to play a real one from time to time! ).

The trouble is, every time you go and give a hard and fast reason why Yamaha shouldn't do something, they go and do it anyway! The NP-V80 is a 76 note arranger. A very poor one, certainly, and without a real piano feeling keybed, too, but a 76 note arranger, nonetheless. So much for market research...

All we get here is 'Yamaha can do no wrong' from its' fanboys, all evidence to the contrary. You can't make the failures they had go away by pretending they didn't happen. And for Yamaha's market research to be the geniuses you make out, they would have to NEVER make a mistake... And that is sadly not the case.

They are making one now. If the S910 is the best 61 MOTL arranger, a 76 S910 would HAVE to be the best 76... Your logic dictates this. But, apparently, only Yamaha's competitors can make a profit selling MOTL and TOTL 76's, while Yamaha's appeal fails completely once you can play well... Yamaha are good at making toys, but scared of competing against others that successfully make a profit (you don't honestly think Korg make a LOSS on the PA2Xpro, do you? ) in a market they know exists.

That fits the facts as well as 'Yamaha can do no wrong'...

Once again Diki, you flog a dead horse by saying the NP-V80 is an arranger.

It is a piano with arranger features.

I'm beginning to understand why James put you on ignore...you can't accept when you are wrong.

And, you are wrong in this case.

Ian

Because you or Yamaha Marketing say I am? I guess that is all we need, eh?

I mean, a shred of evidence would be overkill, wouldn't it?

The NP-V80 does NOT have a piano-like keyboard. Play one if you don't believe me. It is as flimsy and as plastic a keybed as you are ever likely to get on any arranger. My G70 is FAR more piano-like (by comparison)... Hey, I guess, if your definition (and Yamaha's) is correct, all these years of telling me I have a home arranger were wrong, weren't they? Apparently, I have a Piano product!

Sorry, Ian, but you are going to have to back up your assertion with maybe a FACT or two, before simply calling me wrong is anything more than egotism... I bring up point after point, you completely ignore them, and then go on to bleat the company line ad nauseam. To quote Monty Python

'That's not an argument! That's just contradiction!...

'No it isn't....!'

Yamaha knows more about what they sell than you....you're just a Roland fanboy, and way out of your league.

The action of the NP-V80 piano is a lightweight graded action...many companies, including Roland, sold these types of light actioned instruments years ago....and they were sold as "pianos".

Some of these EP-series had accompaniments, yet they were still sold as pianos and never called "arrangers".

The NP-V80 is based on the NP-30 (the "NP" should give you a clue), which is a piano, whether it meets your definition or not.

So, you are wrong.

I know it's very hard to accept you are, but, as you always say, "grow a pair", and accept reality.

It'll make you feel much better...and Chas and I will be so proud.

Ian



[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 06-16-2010).]

What is egotistical is your inane belief that you know more about Yamaha's products than it's marketers and employees.

My ego does not enter into this equation at all..I'm merely quoting Steve Deming and Yamaha's web sites.

You are making up your own definitions...that's what is egotistical.

If you want a fact to sink your dentures into, it is spelled out for you very plainly on Yamaha's web sites.

The NP--V80 is a piano...or to be even more on point, a "Versatile Piano"...that's what the "VP" stands for.

Can't get much more "factual" than that...certainly well beyond your vain attempts to call it something it is not.

Be a big Diki and admit you're wrong...don't let that big ego run the show.

You're not the bus driver...you're just another passenger.

Ian

Anyone else tired of the Ian / Diki battle besides me? I'm sure some find it amusing, but I'm sick of this bickering. Take it outside, boys.

Tim

Sorry about the bickering, Tim...I'm actually weary of it myself.

Keep an eye on the Yamaha web site for more demos of this nifty little piano.

Ian



[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 06-16-2010).]